ATC Says Trail Magic is Bad for the Trail

[Seatbelt]

and i'm not talking about picking up a wet hitch hiker. and i dont think anyone else here is either.

Read post #161 and there are others as well. If you are talking about hiker feeds as trail magic, then what was Baltimore Jack trying to accomplish for himself? From what I understand he was always giving back to the trail and helping strangers, many inexperienced hikers. What was his agenda? Just curious.

[KDogg]

I never felt like I was in remote wilderness on the trail. Not because of trail magic, but because I wasn't. I was never more than a few days (if that) away from a town, probably never more than a few hours away from a road and hardly ever out of cell service. This idea of remoteness on the AT is somewhat of a fantasy today. I know what folks are wanting but it just isn't that way on the AT anymore and never will be again. Population and economy drives this, not trail magic. I'm in my 50s and the US population has gone from less than 190 million when I was born to over 320 million today. Our desire to get away from this mass of humanity is understandable but maybe not as realistic as it once was.

What is bubbling just below the surface here is the very real problem of the partying, drug using, and generally rude groups of youngish hikers that seem intent on ruining the entire experience for everybody else in their quest to hike their own hike and get away from the society that puts limits on what they want to do. To me this is the problem with the trail today and, in my opinion, no amount, or lack, of trail magic is going to change this. On the first few weeks of my thru, there were several times that I thought violence was going to break out between these groups and the older crowd on the trail. This was not fun and I still sit and wonder how these people could have so little regard for others. It wasn't just at the beginning of the trail either. In Connecticut, there was still a group of these hikers around and I watched them buy two cases of beer and load it into their packs for the shelter that night. Very frustrating. I can handle a lot of crap from these folks and not be bothered in the least but don't mess with my sleep and leave your cigarettes and doobies out of the shelters.

How do we fix this problem? I see it as an enforcement issue. I saw a few ridge runners at the beginning of the trail and the shelters they were at were quiet and "remote" feeling. After the first few days I didn't see ridge runners anymore and things changed. I never did see a single ranger or law enforcement official on the trail. Not once in almost six months. In Damascus, they completely ignore the crazy parties going on in the woods in return for commerce. I'm assuming it is only a matter of time before Trail Days grows into something that even their Chamber of Commerce can't put up with. As much as I hated the commercialization of the trail by the group known as the AMC, I never experienced a problem with these groups in NH. Maybe this should/will be the model for the future of the trail in the other states.

[tdoczi]

Read post #161 and there are others as well. If you are talking about hiker feeds as trail magic, then what was Baltimore Jack trying to accomplish for himself? From what I understand he was always giving back to the trail and helping strangers, many inexperienced hikers. What was his agenda? Just curious.

i'm not going to speculate on his actions or the motivations for them in this forum.

[tdoczi]

Read post #161 and there are others as well. If you are talking about hiker feeds as trail magic, then what was Baltimore Jack trying to accomplish for himself? From what I understand he was always giving back to the trail and helping strangers, many inexperienced hikers. What was his agenda? Just curious.

and where does that say that picking up wet hitch hikers is detrimental? where did i say that? where did anyone say that?

[tdoczi]

One is trail magic, the other is a groupie

exactly. i'm really glad we've all taken to calling them what they are, its long overdue.

[Seatbelt]

and where does that say that picking up wet hitch hikers is detrimental? where did i say that? where did anyone say that?

Your entire discourse is saying (to me at least) that people are only doing TM for their own reasons(good), not for others'. That their motives need to be reviewed/changed.
Where I come from, we look out for each other, help each other without being asked, etc. and don't think anything about it. Don't expect anything in return. Many church groups do the same, and I would expect some have ulterior motives as well. All I am saying is to expand your horizons a little and give some trail magic people some credit for trying to do what they think is a good thing. I think the judging of others' motives is a step in the wrong direction most of the time. How do we know what they are thinking? or why they are out there? A church group feeding hikers are not trying to add to their local church are they? Most everyone they meet on the trail lives a long ways off.
Sorry for the rant, maybe I took your words the wrong way, but I just wanted to stand up for some people who have NO agenda, just think they are helping out and lending a hand, even if it misguided.

[capehiker]

One is trail magic, the other is a groupie

Exactly. It's mind blowing how many members on here are not understanding (or not wanting to) the difference. The amount of groupies, pack sniffers, wannabe's, etc is growing exponentially due to Facebook groups, Instagram, etc.

There is a growing subsection of people who want to stroke their own egos by saying "I gave a snickers bar to a thru hiker!" We know this to be true because they come into the Class of 2017 page and say exactly that with hopes of getting pats on the head. We also know that people brag about leaving unattended food at road crossings and trail heads. We know there is a group of "shuttlers" who claim to give free rides and then get bent out of shape when the hikers use them for that very reason (free!) and don't pay.

We know this because all you have to do is spend a little time in these online groups to see it. For me, this is a driving factor in the latest PR release from the ATC.

[LittleRock]

There was the story of an overtly obnoxious hiker feed at the Overmountain Shelter https://thetrek.co/appalachian-trail...g-trail-magic/

I think the keg party put on by the Appalachian State Collage at Overmountain back in '08 was better How long does it take 50 hikers to drain a keg of beer? About 10 minutes.

These remind me why I avoid the AT during thru season...

There was the story of an overtly obnoxious hiker feed at the Overmountain Shelter

https://thetrek.co/appalachian-trail...g-trail-magic/

[tdoczi]

Your entire discourse is saying (to me at least) that people are only doing TM for their own reasons(good), not for others'. That their motives need to be reviewed/changed.
Where I come from, we look out for each other, help each other without being asked, etc. and don't think anything about it. Don't expect anything in return. Many church groups do the same, and I would expect some have ulterior motives as well. All I am saying is to expand your horizons a little and give some trail magic people some credit for trying to do what they think is a good thing. I think the judging of others' motives is a step in the wrong direction most of the time. How do we know what they are thinking? or why they are out there? A church group feeding hikers are not trying to add to their local church are they? Most everyone they meet on the trail lives a long ways off.
Sorry for the rant, maybe I took your words the wrong way, but I just wanted to stand up for some people who have NO agenda, just think they are helping out and lending a hand, even if it misguided.

i suspect youre just not aware of the very specific forms of "trail magic" under discussion here and are therefore taking things the wrong way.

no one, certainly not me, is saying people should stop giving hikers rides in the rain, for instance.

there is a whole other level, a culture in fact, of "trail magic" that goes well beyond random unplanned acts of kindness and thats what we're discussing

[Ankle Bone]

When it comes down to it, the problem isnt about food
Its about the type of person that is hiking , and their groupies

people that arent out there for solitude, they are out there for groups and socializing, and their numbers are growing
so are their ridiculous groupies

So well said!!!!

[Ankle Bone]

There was the story of an overtly obnoxious hiker feed at the Overmountain Shelter https://thetrek.co/appalachian-trail/no-one-could-believe-this-amazing-trail-magic/



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I am heading South from Elk Park this Fall. Sorry to all who support Hiker Feeds, but if this was to greet me on my first day of vacation, I'd be very annoyed

[Lone Wolf]

From what I understand he was always giving back to the trail and helping strangers, many inexperienced hikers. What was his agenda? Just curious.

he had no life outside the AT

[HooKooDooKu]

Wow, 10 pages of posts on this issue in less than a week.

Last year it took two months to get 8 pages of posts on this exact same issue (and the 'meat' of the arguments haven't changed a bit).
2016 Hiker Feed Issue Thread

[Sarcasm the elf]

Wow, 10 pages of posts on this issue in less than a week.

Last year it took two months to get 8 pages of posts on this exact same issue (and the 'meat' of the arguments haven't changed a bit).
2016 Hiker Feed Issue Thread

If you switch your view to 40 posts per page, then it's only five pages.

[gpburdelljr]

Wow, 10 pages of posts on this issue in less than a week.

Last year it took two months to get 8 pages of posts on this exact same issue (and the 'meat' of the arguments haven't changed a bit).
2016 Hiker Feed Issue Thread

A great many of the posts are unrelated, or only tangentially related, to the issue as laid out by the OP.

[Seatbelt]

A great many of the posts are unrelated, or only tangentially related, to the issue as laid out by the OP.

I agree, now we are talking about groupies and cultural change instead of hiker feeds set up by the trail. I can't keep up I guess.

[tdoczi]

I agree, now we are talking about groupies and cultural change instead of hiker feeds set up by the trail. I can't keep up I guess.

we're talking about trail groupies and the culture around the trail, both of which contribute to the "trail magic" issue.

groupie is not just a word for girls who follow rock bands around and culture is not just a word that refers to pieces of art in a museum. the appalachian trail has both a culture and groupies.

you keep insisting in looking at these things with such a narrow focus

[rickb]

When it comes to feeds -- especially the larger ones --what percentage are driven by former thru hikers?

Are they considered groupies too, or is there another word for them?

Follow up question: Are the town's people that put on feeds (I recall reading about one put on by Great Barrington, a recently designated "Trail Town" or whatever the ATC labels them as) considered groupies too?

I am thinking they fit the definition many are putting forth.

Or perhaps there are different sub classifications of Groupies?

Also wondering if any deviation from your normal routine -- motivated by a chance to give a ride or some other kindness -- makes one a groupie, or if there is a time and mile window that makes that "OK".

Also wondering if Lone Wolf has any groupies. Between his pith, Harley and beard I have to think he must, right?

[TNhiker]

Also wondering if Lone Wolf has any groupies. Between his pith, Harley and beard I have to think he must, right?

wouldnt he have a different trail name then?

one more like "Popular Wolf"........

[Lone Wolf]

Also wondering if Lone Wolf has any groupies. Between his pith, Harley and beard I have to think he must, right?

not a one. my cats love me