ATC Says Trail Magic is Bad for the Trail

[ScareBear]

I'm in agreement with the ATC. Hiker feeds and unattended "trail magic" coolers a lot of negative effects on the trail. They cause trash, clog up trailheads, and create a sense of entitlement and expectation of freebees among newer hikers.

To admit my own bias, I'm a section hiker and there is a small but sizable number of these self titled "trail angels" are more accurately thru hiker groupies. On several occasions I've been deliberately stopped by people who offered me some sort of unsolicited freebie, only to have them renege the offer when they found out I was a section hiker. This is something that I find incredibly insulting and has soured my opinion of hiker feeds in general. What they're actually doing is interrupting my day just to let me know that my hike isn't worthy of their help
and while I'm normally a very polite person in these cases I'm perfectly happy to let them know where they can shove that free hotdog.

Only one time I had that happen. It was on the order of "well, if there's any left when the thru hikers are done you are welcome to it..." I'm not normally a very polite person. Pretty sure you can imagine my response about what the little prick could do with any leftovers.

As long as feeds don't happen on the trail and at a public trailhead or public parking lot that the AT happens to run through, and there is no trash left, I say "What is it for anyone to care about?" If you were going to stop at the trailhead or parking lot, nothing is preventing you. If you were going to stop at the trailhead or PARKING LOT for the scenic view and a hiker feed ruined it for you...well...REALLY? Come on...

[Emerson Bigills]

I left Springer in February this year and was the recipient of countless acts of trail magic. I appreciated every one of them. I did not experience any "hiker feeds", probably too early. I did get some soft drinks left in coolers in several states and had folks give me fruit a couple other times. I appreciated every one of them. Would I have enjoyed and been grateful for a hot dog or a hamburger, or even a cup of coffee? You bet. I never expected anything, but appreciated everything I received.

Do I plan on providing some trail magic food next year to the 2018 class? You bet. I know how much it meant to the NOBO's I was around when they got it. I know it is not in vogue with many on this site and even the ATC, but I think I practice LNT principles and would conduct a Magic session with those in mind. I don't really care what others think, it is a way for thru-hikers who were there, to provide a moment of "magic" to a hiker that otherwise is grinding miles another day. It is the little things that can break up a tough and often boring day on the trail.

[Lyle]

To relay my own bias, I'm a section hiker have found there are a small but sizable number of these self titled "trail angels" are more accurately thru hiker groupies. On several occasions I've been deliberately stopped by people who offered me some sort of unsolicited freebie, only to have them renege the offer when they found out I was a section hiker. This is something that I find incredibly insulting and has soured my opinion of hiker feeds in general. What they're actually doing is interrupting my day just to let me know that my hike isn't worthy of their help
and while I'm normally a very polite person in these cases I'm perfectly happy to let them know where they can shove that free hotdog.

I hear ya. Last summer while hiking a section in PA I came to a road crossing. There were two competing TMs set up, one to the right, one to the left. The woman at the one to the left started waving her arms excitedly, calling me over to her. Not sure if she wanted to ask a specific question, or needed something from me, I went towards her, needed to actually walk past her canopy to a driveway to get into the parking lot where she was set up. As I approached her, she opened a cooler which I assumed held hot dogs and sodas (confirmed by others who came after me). She then asked: "Are you a thru=hiker?" I replied section. She said "Oh", closed the cooler and turned away. Talk about being ticked off, not over not getting a free-be, but because I had hiked a significant distance off the trail based on her frantic waving and calling, and was then completely rebuffed. Just shook my head and walked on.

[Deadeye]

As to the enjoyment of a bit of magic, one's spirits don't have to be low to be lifted even higher!

I love it when I find a couple cans of coke in a stream, and leave a thank you.

Hiker feeds? Trail Days? Not my thing, I avoid them like the plague. Not fond of crowds of any sort.

[Malto]

I'm in agreement with the ATC. Hiker feeds and unattended "trail magic" coolers a lot of negative effects on the trail. They cause trash, clog up trailheads, and create a sense of entitlement and expectation of freebees among newer hikers.

To relay my own bias, I'm a section hiker have found there are a small but sizable number of these self titled "trail angels" are more accurately thru hiker groupies. On several occasions I've been deliberately stopped by people who offered me some sort of unsolicited freebie, only to have them renege the offer when they found out I was a section hiker. This is something that I find incredibly insulting and has soured my opinion of hiker feeds in general. What they're actually doing is interrupting my day just to let me know that my hike isn't worthy of their help
and while I'm normally a very polite person in these cases I'm perfectly happy to let them know where they can shove that free hotdog.

Thru hiker groupies are the perfect description for many. Also, let's stop using the term trail angels for hiker feeds, it is nothing more than an organized party, feeding vacationers. Finally, if you want to give back, volunteer to help with trail maintanence. These folks are the real trail angels. Rant complete.

[imscotty]

I'm sure the first person who fed a bear in Yosemite thought he was doing a good thing 'helping' the bears. With time the bears thought they were 'entitled' to handouts and there were an increasing number of unpleasant human bear interactions.

black-bears-picture-7.jpg

The circus like atmosphere harmed the natural experience in Yosemite also proved unhealthy for the bears. Thankfully the practice was finally discouraged.

I'm not sure what I am getting at but there is a metaphor here somewhere. Planned Hiker Feeds are detrimental to the natural experience of the trip and encourage a sense of entitlement among some hikers and ultimately bad behavior from a few. You need to allow these hairy stinky thru-hiking beasts to learn to survive on their own. Tough love people!

Those that cannot make it without these hiker feeds may meet their demise, but that is nature's way. The survivors will ultimately be made stronger and their presence on the trail will improve the hiker gene pool.

[rmitchell]

Two of us plan to do some trail magic Saturday. We will likely carry a pair of loppers, a saw, couple of swing blades and maybe a fire rake or shovel.

[Scrum]

As long as feeds don't happen on the trail and at a public trailhead or public parking lot that the AT happens to run through, and there is no trash left, I say "What is it for anyone to care about?" If you were going to stop at the trailhead or parking lot, nothing is preventing you. If you were going to stop at the trailhead or PARKING LOT for the scenic view and a hiker feed ruined it for you...well...REALLY? Come on...

Is there ever a problem with the group putting on the hiker feed taking so much room with their cars and set ups causing a lack of parking being available for others in the parking lots?

I have never seen a hiker feed since I do my hiking up north and they don't seem to take place up here. I am curious why that is, and get a sense of what the feeds are like. All I have to go on are the decisions and photos on WB.

[Traffic Jam]

I'm sure the first person who fed a bear in Yosemite thought he was doing a good thing 'helping' the bears. With time the bears thought they were 'entitled' to handouts and there were an increasing number of unpleasant human bear interactions.

black-bears-picture-7.jpg

The circus like atmosphere harmed the natural experience in Yosemite also proved unhealthy for the bears. Thankfully the practice was finally discouraged.

I'm not sure what I am getting at but there is a metaphor here somewhere. Planned Hiker Feeds are detrimental to the natural experience of the trip and encourage a sense of entitlement among some hikers and ultimately bad behavior from a few. You need to allow these hairy stinky thru-hiking beasts to learn to survive on their own. Tough love people!

Those that cannot make it without these hiker feeds may meet their demise, but that is nature's way. The survivors will ultimately be made stronger and their presence on the trail will improve the hiker gene pool.

I agree with you but keep in mind the AT is a social trail. It's not about surviving on your own, but working and bonding with those around you...making life-long friendships....and reconnecting with the goodness of people.

Yogiing makes me irate but in essence, "trail magic" via hiker feeds is very similar. It's a win-win for the people who partake and those who provide which perpetuates the cycle.

Those who suggest feeding the homeless instead are right on target.

[rocketsocks]

I hear ya. Last summer while hiking a section in PA I came to a road crossing. There were two competing TMs set up, one to the right, one to the left. The woman at the one to the left started waving her arms excitedly, calling me over to her. Not sure if she wanted to ask a specific question, or needed something from me, I went towards her, needed to actually walk past her canopy to a driveway to get into the parking lot where she was set up. As I approached her, she opened a cooler which I assumed held hot dogs and sodas (confirmed by others who came after me). She then asked: "Are you a thru=hiker?" I replied section. She said "Oh", closed the cooler and turned away. Talk about being ticked off, not over not getting a free-be, but because I had hiked a significant distance off the trail based on her frantic waving and calling, and was then completely rebuffed. Just shook my head and walked on.

Some people truly are clueless, you handled it better than I'd have.

[DownEaster]

my response is, if your spirts are in need of lifting, then why are you out hiking?

Because hiking lifts the spirits? Seems pretty obvious to me. Getting out on the trail, away from the usual concerns of commuter traffic, work, social obligations, & c. is restorative; however, this is a slow process and not without its own concerns (cold, heat, rain, wet feet, sore muscles). Extra lifting of the spirits is also good.

[Uncle Joe]

It would seem to me if the ATC wants to get a statement out about Trail Magic putting it online would be advantageous to that goal. There's good, bad, and many people in between and so it will be with Trail Magic and Trail Angels. I have no problem with it. Setup in a parking lot I fail to see the additional impact to the trail unless people are congregating on the trail. The ATC should probably encourage TM at trailheads and road crossings instead. Limit the impact is about all you can do at this point because that genie is too fat and happy to fit back in the bottle. Probably from too much Trail Magic!

[tdoczi]

Because hiking lifts the spirits? Seems pretty obvious to me. Getting out on the trail, away from the usual concerns of commuter traffic, work, social obligations, & c. is restorative; however, this is a slow process and not without its own concerns (cold, heat, rain, wet feet, sore muscles). Extra lifting of the spirits is also good.

you missed the point.

none of us has to hike. if at any point doing the actual hiking dampens our spirits, then we should stop.

the notion that people calling themselves "angels" need to go out and do anything to "lift the spirits" of people out on a recreational hike so that they dont get too downtrodden and will be better able to complete their goal is some sort of special 21st century america ludicrous.

[TJ aka Teej]

It would seem to me if the ATC wants to get a statement out about Trail Magic putting it online would be advantageous to that goal.

See post #10 in this thread.

[Dogwood]

I think part of the issue is that the term "Trail Magic" has become synonymous with "hiker feeds."

Random and spontaneous acts of kindness indeed lift the spirits.
Be nice to separate the two definitions, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon. At least in popular use.

There it is in a nutshell. TM is about more than food.

Before much more posting goes on, perhaps reading the actual ATC guidelines may enlighten the conversation.

TU Teej.

..."Trail magic is a term that is often misconstrued. By the ATC definition, Trail magic is a serendipitous experience on the Appalachian Trail. Mostly it's unplanned acts of kindness by strangers, though a liberal interpretation might include a mesmerizing sunset after days of soaking rain, or a wildlife sighting so thrilling it makes your heart pound."

Ahh you got it.

I'm not sure why everyone is grouping "trail magic" into a single type of event. On my thru hike I saw many different examples of trail magic and it was obvious which ones were a problem. Most organized trail magic events were at trail head parking lots or parks near to the trail and not actually on the trail. I enjoyed these events and had much gratitude when they occurred...But I always appreciated trail magic and most folks did it "correctly".

This was the likely the TM intention - gratitude - appreciation.

... To me trail magic is like when you come out of the store after resupplying and you haven't even put out your thumb and someone comes up and says" Hey need a lift back to the trail?"

Another great example of TM

I left Springer in February this year and was the recipient of countless acts of trail magic. I appreciated every one of them. I did not experience any "hiker feeds", probably too early. I did get some soft drinks left in coolers in several states and had folks give me fruit a couple other times. I appreciated every one of them. Would I have enjoyed and been grateful for a hot dog or a hamburger, or even a cup of coffee? You bet. I never expected anything, but appreciated everything I received.

Do I plan on providing some trail magic food next year to the 2018 class? You bet. I know how much it meant to the NOBO's I was around when they got it. I know it is not in vogue with many on this site and even the ATC, but I think I practice LNT principles and would conduct a Magic session with those in mind. I don't really care what others think, it is a way for thru-hikers who were there, to provide a moment of "magic" to a hiker that otherwise is grinding miles another day. It is the little things that can break up a tough and often boring day on the trail.

I'd venture to state your impetus for providing TM to hikers after you is to give back, to honor others, and to spread the appreciation and gratitude you had because of experiencing TM.

I agree with you but keep in mind the AT is a social trail. It's not about surviving on your own, but working and bonding with those around you...making life-long friendships....and reconnecting with the goodness of people....

TJ is not even a thru-hiker and knows this not that you have to be a thru to acknowledge the value of TM or hiker food done with consideration and responsibility and the value it has to the "AT experience."

[Mr. Bumpy]

Two of us plan to do some trail magic Saturday. We will likely carry a pair of loppers, a saw, couple of swing blades and maybe a fire rake or shovel.

This is the best post on this thread.

[DownEaster]

you missed the point.

none of us has to hike. if at any point doing the actual hiking dampens our spirits, then we should stop.

Why? Some parts are tougher than others, depending on our own capabilities and preferences. A couple of days on the rocks in Pennsylvania may dampen the spirits, but the rocks don't last forever. Some trail angel providing cold drinks and cold packs to wrap around our knees or ankles in those rocks would be very salutary. There are usually disheartening parts of any significant endeavor, but completing such an undertaking is generally rewarding. Advising people to stop a hike when some part of that hike is unpleasant is defeatist.

There is no requirement for people to produce trail magic. There should be no expectation of receiving trail magic. It's magic, not an obligation for angels or a right for hikers.

[tdoczi]

Why? Some parts are tougher than others, depending on our own capabilities and preferences. A couple of days on the rocks in Pennsylvania may dampen the spirits, but the rocks don't last forever. Some trail angel providing cold drinks and cold packs to wrap around our knees or ankles in those rocks would be very salutary. There are usually disheartening parts of any significant endeavor, but completing such an undertaking is generally rewarding. Advising people to stop a hike when some part of that hike is unpleasant is defeatist.
.

why does hard have to equal disheartening equals my spirits are down and a free hot dog will really fix things?

sure, there are miserable days. a hamburger doesnt change that and on balance even on the worst days my spirt requires no lifting. being out doing what i want to be doing is all the lifting required.

if i really dont want to be there, which is rare, but does happen, i go home. thats not defeatist. spending your vacation miserably slogging through something youre not enjoying is defeatist, and the idea cold soda and potato salad by the side of the road is going to fix that is silly.

[BuckeyeBill]

How many of us remember when TM was two elderly people with a five gallon cooler of some type of juice, or 2-3 big thermos's of coffee and a Snickers Candy Bar? You used your own cup and only took 1 Snickers while you took a break and talked to the folks. When you were done, you thanked the folks and walked away happy with a sugar buzz.

[Busky2]

Easter 2014 TM x2 A woman in the woods giving bags of candy and packing out your trash, God bless her, so sweet and kind. Second, a full sit down feed on a forest service roadside complete with home made deserts put on by a class of 79 member and his friends. These act of kindness will be with me for the rest of my life and screw anyone or anything that says that they were a bad thing on that damp chilly trail that day. Don't like it pass it up, everywhere every time as for me a bag of oranges or a soda in a cooler and water in a long dry stretch is a wonderful thing. These acts of kindness are not demanded or required, but just pleasant surprises, like MAGIC.