permit system for 2018?

[AllDownhillFromHere]

Does anyone with a legit connection with the PCTA know if the permit system will remain (or remain, but be different) for 2018? My (admittedly nonscientific) poll of other hikers, and conversations with the guys at Mt Laguna showed that only around 1/4 of the people started on their assigned date, and there were zero stories of any kind of "enforcement".

[Venchka]

That won't stop the bureaucrats.
On the other hand, apparently nobody cares.
Unscientific. As reliable as any other Internet speculation. "It just doesn't matter."
If construction begins on a guard station for checking permits you'll know they mean business.
I'm glad to hear the results of your informal research. Thanks.
Wayne


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[Venchka]

One more thing.
The less said about the current non system the better. Let them think that it's working.
Wayne


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[Miner]

The only place before the Sierra Nevada that really checks wilderness permits is San Jacinto by Idyllwild and almost all of the limited enforcement there is limited to the top of Devil's Slide or between the Tram and the peak.

The PCTA permit is just a replacement for all the local wilderness and backcountry permits you would need to get individually. The various agencies voluntarily gave the PCTA the right to issue it after years of negotiation when the numbers of hikers were much smaller. If the PCTA had not done anything (such as the voluntary quota system in place), that right to issue a permit to rule all permits could have been lost the way things were going. It still might if it ends up not accomplishing anything. But the PCTA has no legal authority to enforce the quota. So only the individual NF, BLM, NP and SP districts can. And most of the districts that enforce backcountry permits are too far north to really do any good. Now if more places in SoCal start requiring a backcountry permit and enforce it, especially before San Jacinto, then you might find some real teeth. Ideally that should be done in the wilderness area by Hasusser Creek before Lake Morena.

[Dogwood]

We ALL have legit connections with the PCTA. Here it is: https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-tr...ce-permit-faq/


Why are these thread questions being asked? These questions can easily be taken as one having side stepping loop hole finding illegal maneuvering motives. Is it based in the self serving "I'll do my own thing" regardless of others and anything else mindset? If none of these motives individually apply no need to feel confronted. I wish you well.

We all have opportunity here to do the "right thing." "Enforcement" begins through self enforcement - freeing ourselves - by making better decisions through character and integrity - considering our individual impacts in context of a larger whole - policing ourselves and community.

If one cares to read about the PCT Permit system at the PCTA website and which has been posted several times on WhiteBlaze on similar PCT threads it DEFINTELY IS NOT A SYSTEM JUST TO MAKE IT EASY TO HAVE ONE PERMIT THAT OVER RULES HAVING TO GET MANY PERMITS!!! NOR IS THE PERMIT NOT ENFORCED/ENFORCEABLE!!!


Do I need to start on the day my PCT Long-distance Permit says? Will it be enforced at the southern terminus?

Yes, you need to start on the day and location that you are permitted for.


The PCT community and most thru-hikers really care about the PCT and the experience it provides. You understand that the best way to minimize the effect of your presence on the environment and other hikers is to voluntarily comply with all best practices, rules and regulations regarding the trail. Having 118 people start their long-distance trip on the same day – as it happened in 2014 – puts significant pressure upon fragile desert ecosystems and the very experience you are hoping to enjoy.The first principle of Leave No Trace is “Plan Ahead and Prepare” and picking a travel time that minimizes the concentration of people (all of who will camp, drink water and leave human waste) is a critical component of being a good steward of the land.


For those that need a little more incentive to “do the right thing”, the Cleveland National Forest, approximately 14 miles from the border, is the first place where travel perm​its are required. Crest Runners, who are Forest Service employees, will be out on trail making contact with PCT travelers and they will have access to law enforcement officers. Voluntary compliance is by far a better way to operate than a system of increasing regulations and enforcement. It frees up resources for making this experience better, rather than reacting to visitor use problems.
I can tell you from sitting in on PCTA meetings, reading PCTA and other PCT managing authorities partnership sensibilities, and personally conferring and understanding not only the PCTA's goals but also several of these various governing authorities the PCT will not be managed with an open door come one come all non quota free for all management system as perhaps is currently allowed to a greater extent elsewhere.

[AllDownhillFromHere]

...Now if more places in SoCal start requiring a backcountry permit and enforce it, especially before San Jacinto, then you might find some real teeth. Ideally that should be done in the wilderness area by Hasusser Creek before Lake Morena.

Agreed. I neither saw nor heard enforcement anywhere, even on SJ. I feel like if they're going to do it, they need to really do it. I know the ATC has started this "flip at Harpers" movement, I think that's something that could help with this as well.

[Kaptain Kangaroo]

..............We all have opportunity here to do the "right thing." "Enforcement" begins through self enforcement - freeing ourselves - by making better decisions through character and integrity - considering our individual impacts in context of a larger whole - policing ourselves and community.............

Nicely said !

[SnowWhite]

If you haven't noticed yet, they changed the application time for 2018. You need to apply it earlier than before.

[jefals]

Do you specify the date you want to start on the application? What if you can't get that date? Do they approve your application but give you a different date, or do you have to fill out another application requesting a different date?

[Venchka]

How else will they know what day that you would like to start?
April will fill up in half a nano second. March soon after.
Wayne


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[AllDownhillFromHere]

Do you specify the date you want to start on the application? What if you can't get that date? Do they approve your application but give you a different date, or do you have to fill out another application requesting a different date?

Odd, my post got eaten. Posting again, answers in order:

Yes
Tough luck
You have to pick a valid date; if you get there and your day is gone simply pick another

[AllDownhillFromHere]

Nicely said !

I'm not sure what any of that quote-ridden stream-of-consciousness passage meant.

[Traveler]

I'm not sure what any of that quote-ridden stream-of-consciousness passage meant.

Pretty clear to me. Its up to the individual to do the right thing, presuming they have any ethics to exercise.

[rompel]

If you haven't noticed yet, they changed the application time for 2018. You need to apply it earlier than before.

Way to go, PCTA! Let's eliminate any possiblility for northbound thru-hikers to take the snowpack into account when choosing their start date.

[jefals]

Do you specify the date you want to start on the application? What if you can't get that date? Do they approve your application but give you a different date, or do you have to fill out another application requesting a different date?

Odd, my post got eaten. Posting again, answers in order:

Yes
Tough luck
You have to pick a valid date; if you get there and your day is gone simply pick another

Sorry...I appreciate your answer, but it makes no sense! ?

[jefals]

How else will they know what day that you would like to start?
April will fill up in half a nano second. March soon after.
Wayne


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Alright here's an example. Loads of folks request every day in April. I've requested, say, April 5th. They turn me down. So what do I do - apply again, say, for April 6? At this point, all the folks that initially requested April 6 will be ahead of me right? So, I'll be rejected again. By the time I get an application approved, hiking season could be over!

[AllDownhillFromHere]

If they do it online like last year, the "application" is a live webpage where you can pick days, see how many permits are left for each day, etc. It's not like you have to mail it in, wait a week to be denied, then start the process over.

[Another Kevin]

Alright here's an example. Loads of folks request every day in April. I've requested, say, April 5th. They turn me down. So what do I do - apply again, say, for April 6? At this point, all the folks that initially requested April 6 will be ahead of me right? So, I'll be rejected again. By the time I get an application approved, hiking season could be over!

That's already the situation for section hiking permits in places like the JMT, or rafting permits for the Grand Canyon. People often go for years before they win the permit lottery. As soon as total numbers are limited, someone will be sent away.

I just don't hike in places where people are sent away. It feels too much like taking someone else's spot.

[Malto]

There is a straight-forward answer.........
SoBo

[jefals]

If they do it online like last year, the "application" is a live webpage where you can pick days, see how many permits are left for each day, etc. It's not like you have to mail it in, wait a week to be denied, then start the process over.

Oh, okay, that makes sense. Thks!