short on water, long on sun. What to do...

[jefals]

The real question is how do you prevent putting yourself into that situation in the first place. Once you find yourself out of water, seriously dehydrated and a significant distance from more water, there is really only two things you can do. 1) hope someone comes by with water which they can spare or 2) call for rescue. The third option is to laydown and die, a fate not uncommon in that part of the world.

Right. I know you want to prevent the situation. But - for whatever reason, I'm putting out the scenario that you DO find yourself in that situation. Who knows; maybe you met a hiker short on water and gave him your extra bottle, then your camelbak sprung a leak. Whatever.
Just trying to get thoughts on the two alternatives;
Walk on during the heat because you're afraid of trying to go 8 hours without water, or lie still for 8 hours, and wait for it to cool off...

[HooKooDooKu]

Another consideration may be diminished thirst. I've read in Marathon Training books that older runners (age 50+) can't rely on thirst to gauge drinking. Thirst can be diminished as we age. I'm not sure hiking gets studied like running, but I would think it may be similar for hiking in the heat. I know I seem to drink less and end up somewhat dehydrated when backpacking in warm weather.

When I started the JMT, I had no problems keeping hydrated climbing out of Yosemite Valley. I guess the work of the climb kept my mouth dry and constantly kept me drinking. But the 3rd day was a down hill hike into Tuolumne and a relatively level hike through Lyell Canyon. I hadly drank at all that day and ended evening feeling sick in part to dehydration. Make sure to always keep drinking after that.

[Dogwood]

Franklin Mts SP has that nice ridge line walk. You're one of the rare few here on WB who have shared about it. I wish I would have done more of it but had to catch a flight. Some head to the AP bar and have drinks, browse shops, sleep, or get a room when they have 7 hrs awaiting a flight. I went for a sweaty strenuous hike taking a bus to Franklin Mts SP and hiking. LOL. That was the end of a great two months - Denver hitting up my favorite outfitters while staying at some awesome hiker friends, a CT flip flop thru-hike, hitching down to Carlsbad Caverns NP hiking(YES there's hiking in C NP) and caving, hiking from CC NP to Guadalupe NP off trail through Lincoln Nat. Forest/Rattlesnake Canyon, traversing G NP, hitching down to Big Bend NP(got one ride from the G NP CG) doing a bunch of loops and hiking there, and then hitching to El Paso. Wait! More time. What's around here we can also hike? THX for allowing me to reminiscence.

[jefals]

Franklin Mts SP has that nice ridge line walk. You're one of the rare few here on WB who have shared about it. I wish I would have done more of it but had to catch a flight. Some head to the AP bar and have drinks, browse shops, sleep, or get a room when they have 7 hrs awaiting a flight. I went for a sweaty strenuous hike taking a bus to Franklin Mts SP and hiking. LOL. That was the end of a great two months - Denver hitting up my favorite outfitters while staying at some awesome hiker friends, a CT flip flop thru-hike, hitching down to Carlsbad Caverns NP hiking(YES there's hiking in C NP) and caving, hiking from CC NP to Guadalupe NP off trail through Lincoln Nat. Forest/Rattlesnake Canyon, traversing G NP, hitching down to Big Bend NP(got one ride from the G NP CG) doing a bunch of loops and hiking there, and then hitching to El Paso. Wait! More time. What's around here we can also hike? THX for allowing me to reminiscence.

Glad I brought back memories. I did some of those in 2014 -- Big Bend and Guadalupe. Carlsbad -- but caving there, not hiking. More hiking in the Sandias.
I had actually planned to be going to Guadalupe that day last March - but my phone app told me it was closed. Leaving El Paso, I saw the entrance to Franklin I had never heard of it before. Pulled in and had a very enjoyable hike. Later, as Guadalupe wasn't far out of my way, I went by just to see if it was really closed - it wasn't. Oh well...

[gwschenk]

In the article Brandenberg said he was 9 miles to his next water source and additionally stated he was dry heaving and cramping. I take that to possibly mean he was looking ONLY AHEAD in the direction of hIs next water stop as planned for on his hike as in advancing his hike (thru-hike?). That is a mistake that thru hikers can get themselves in to. Not that he necessarily should of because we dont have enough location info but greater odds of safety could have been been directionally elsewhere like retreatING back down the trail from where he came.

Or maybe even go sideways OFF the trail. There's plenty of water near the trail. For that you might need more resources than just a strip map on your phone.

[jefals]

There's the pct water report, which lists some of the off trail water sources. Nevertheless, there's a reason they call it a desert out there...

[Venchka]

Combined with traveling stupid light.
The hiker freely admitted his error.

Often read around here. "My SUL WonderPack hurts with 2 liters of water" Dumb.
Be safe Y'all.
Wayne


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[Dogwood]

Or maybe even go sideways OFF the trail. There's plenty of water near the trail. For that you might need more resources than just a strip map on your phone.

Yes. That certainly can be an option but it's a judgment call needing info we don't have about his situation, for example, his exact location. Arm chair quarterbacking Brandenberg's situation will include making assumptions. Info is being filtered through media reports making info we get dubious or at least incomplete. It's the same with bear encounters. It's similar to watching TV televised poker tournaments where home viewers have available more info than the players at the tables. Hey, when we are shown what other players are holding it's easier to play our own hand. LOL.

Remember Brandenberg was already cramping and heaving, probably afraid/concerned about his health not knowing how far it would deteriorate, was faced with maybe some ascents(which can seem like Mt Everest in his situation), backpacking in/near triple digit temps, and sounds like hiking solo on an interstate hiking trail in a high snow yr with more PCT thrus and hikers using the PCT choosing to start/hike later than typical. It's a weird dilemma sometimes in desert hiking - either too much water or not enough. Leaving the main tread might not be the best idea. Then again to get water down a hill where there was shade...?

[Dogwood]

Remember other PCTers came along to his aid! This is what the hiking community does. This is what I would expect. But Brandenberg contacted S&R maybe because he didn't know who was in his vicinity how soon they might come along? Brandenberg 1) stopped, prolly a good choice than continuing on 2) was able to call for assistance 3) recognizes his error. I'd say Brandenberg did some things that did/are working out well. Like to see him get back on the PCT.

[gwschenk]

Arm chair quarterbacking Brandenberg's situation will include making assumptions.

Absolutely, I was thinking in general terms, not his situation in particular. He could have made one correct decision after another and still have found himself in a jam.

[Venchka]

Combined with traveling stupid light.
The hiker freely admitted his error.

Often read around here. "My SUL WonderPack hurts with 2 liters of water" Dumb.
Be safe Y'all.
Wayne


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Sorry.
Old. Dazed. Confused.
Wayne


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[TTT]

Who pays for search parties, helicopters and bear injuries?

[jefals]

search parties -- sometimes they're volunteers, and won't take money from the "rescuee" (if that's the word).
Bear injuries ? I guess if you get injured by a bear, you - and maybe the bear - will pay the price for that.

[Venchka]

In mine and Jeff's case, Medicare A, B and Supplemental will handle the bear injuries.
Where did bear injuries come from anyway?
Wayne


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[Hosh]

Desert hiking is a whole new animal. Knowing where reliable water is, cameling up when your there and carrying an extra liter or 2 is paramount to success. Hiking before 10am after 4pm will help, but most important, "eat" your water don't drink it, trying to stay in balance. This is one situation that hydration bladders make sense, IMO. The micro climate cooling scarves and bandanas really help as does large brim hats. Also avoid protein rich or complex carb foods, they take a lot of water to digest.

[jefals]

"Eat your water"? What does that mean?

[swjohnsey]

From SERE training, when on short water go without for a while, your body will go into conservation mode reducing urine and extracting more water from bowels. Travel at night, try not to exert enough to sweat.

[Slo-go'en]

"Eat your water"? What does that mean?

He might have meant "sip" your water. Bladders make it easy to sip water frequently, but the trouble is you can sip the bladder dry without much warning and a lot sooner then you might expect. Plus bladders have been known to fail. OTOH, only stopping occasionally to gulp down half a bottle of water might not be a good game plan either.

So, how do you carry a big load of water? I'm thinking frame pack set up to carry 4, 2L bottles.

[Miner]

I don't know why people keep referring to the JMT which is pretty cool compared to other parts of the PCT. The hottest parts of the PCT are in SoCal, followed by NorCal (north of Tahoe) which are low elevation and can still hit 100 in mid summer when you drop into the valleys. NorCal at least has partial shade throughout the day since there is a lot of forest (thought not the dense forests found back east), while SoCal can have little to no shade depending on where you are at the time.

My experience from hiking the PCT and other hikes done in desert like areas, I need less water when I choose to not hike in the heat of the day. Stopping before noon and waiting in some shade til 3pm uses less water for the miles than trying to hike through the heat of the day. I also find that after taking a long siesta, I'm able to hike faster since my body has rested and mostly recovered from the mornings hiking. Those reflective umbrellas do work as my experiements showed a noticeable drop in temperature under it. Having access to enough water to soak your shirt and hat provide a great cooling effect till they dry out. Of course, if you have access to that much water, you wouldn't have asked your question in the first place. I only bring that method up since it did allow me to hike through the heat of the day in NorCal when hiking the very low elevation section "O" which hit over 100F at Burney Falls SP.

[jefals]

"Eat your water"? What does that mean?

He might have meant "sip" your water. Bladders make it easy to sip water frequently, but the trouble is you can sip the bladder dry without much warning and a lot sooner then you might expect. Plus bladders have been known to fail. OTOH, only stopping occasionally to gulp down half a bottle of water might not be a good game plan either.

So, how do you carry a big load of water? I'm thinking frame pack set up to carry 4, 2L bottles.

My first backpack trip ever was going to be the first 109 miles of the PCT. Starting at Campo, I had to do 20 miles to get to water. Alone and nervous. I had 7 liters! 3 in the Camelbak, the rest in my smart bottles in the side pockets.
But even on stretches where I carried less, I always split it up. A VERY WISE ole hiker gave me great advice; never have all your water in one container. (Probably doesn't matter on the AT, but it does in the southwest )