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  1. #21

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    I bring a small piece of Uranaphane and a card of photo sensitive paper in case I have to x-ray a toe

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    Update your training. Tourniquets do not get "released" until the person is in a hospital these days.
    Since you bring it up, it's probably worth reposting the Five Myths About Tourniquets article:

    http://www.traumamonkeys.com/blog/20...ut-tourniquets
    Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketsocks View Post
    I bring a small piece of Uranaphane and a card of photo sensitive paper in case I have to x-ray a toe
    Why bother? Ever seen a toe in a cast?

    Duct tape it to the adjoining toe(s) or cut it off and burn it closed with some hot metal. It's just a toe....

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareBear View Post
    Why bother? Ever seen a toe in a cast?

    Duct tape it to the adjoining toe(s) or cut it off and burn it closed with some hot metal. It's just a toe....
    yup, or just use thee ole stomp test, if ya yelp...it's prolly broken

  5. #25
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    Probably the most important and useful product (and heaviest first aid item) to include in ones emergency kit to help themselves or others is reliable communication . . . like a Spot or Delorme InReach type emergency communicator to call for help.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBob View Post
    Question I have is do you guys carry exam gloves to limit expose to blood in case you need to help someone who is bleeding? I did for awhile but then I quit. I am curious as to your thoughts on this.
    Sometimes I carry one pair.
    Quote Originally Posted by ScareBear View Post
    I understand this post is in the AT section and that some of the following applies to more remote/rugged/dangerous settings.
    Suturing being realistic is often dependent on the injury and the ETA to a facility than can have a physician suture you. Going on a 3 week Grand Canyon permit expedition? You'll likely find a couple of skin staplers, along with suture kits, scalpels, SAM splints and other emergency field gear. I've usually got a suture kit, with me on all my AT hikes. Weighs nothing. Same with super glue and steri-strips. I'm not going to activate my SPOT when I am 24 hours or more from a viable road crossing when I or my partner have an injury that can be dealt with immediately and then more professionally, if needed. Same with safety-pins. It sucks to have to use them on a wound, but sometimes, there isn't any good alternative, even if you are staying put until help arrives. Which, depending on where your are, can be quite a good while...
    I think the hemostats weigh the most in my little kit...All of the above requires sufficient prior training and isn't field-craft to be learned on the fly. But, with sufficient prior training can be put to use when necessary or desired. I would not dismiss sutures, staplers, super-glue or the like as overkill or not needed.
    YMMV
    3 weeks in the Grand Canyon, if you need to be stitched up they'll fly you out. Any suturing done on scene will be removed in the ER for debridement anyway. But if the mule is carrying your FAC, then why not?

    A small pair of hemostats might be good. You could clamp off an artery or pull a big splinter.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeBill View Post
    One other thing I wanted to mention. The use of tourniquets is a topic that most medical people try to shy away from. Unless you are fully trained in its use and know how and when to release pressure, you will probably do more damage than you will good. You can easily crush an artery destroy muscle tissue.
    Our EMT protocols call for direct pressure then, if unsuccessful you go to the tourniquet. No more use of elevation and pressure points.
    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    Update your training. Tourniquets do not get "released" until the person is in a hospital these days.
    Yes, and write down the time applied.
    "Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCDave View Post
    Curious; what you are carrying in your pack that will "fix" this skull?
    I was saying that duct tape alone will not fix it. I am also not fixing it, I am protecting the area from further infection by ample use of gauze pads and then wrapping it with a roll of gauze, because duct tape will not work with hair. You can then use a small piece of duct tape to hold the gauze in place. But with injuries like this you also need to check the eyes and level of consciousness. Slurred speech. This is information that will help the responding agencies know what they are facing. Again I am not playing doctor here, but I needed more than bandaides, mole skin and Duct tape to fix it.
    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    This.

    If you've had the training you know what you will and won't be able to do in the woods and how to improvise the things you can help with. Anything more serious than a bandaid, moleskin or ibuprofen means you need to get the person off the trail and then your best bet is to have a cell phone to call help.
    I never said I would do things out side my training or could not improvise things in the woods. I also agree certain types of injuries require getting that person off the trail fast. However there are injuries that you shouldn't or can't move them without additional equipment that is not practical to carry on the trail (i.e. Backboards, Stokes Stretchers). You also are assuming that the person is still directly on the trail. I am also covering the person that took a header over the side of the trail.

    I was asking in my original post that if you had training beyond band aides, mole skin and duct tape would you carry some additional items in your FAK.


    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    Update your training. Tourniquets do not get "released" until the person is in a hospital these days.
    Here again I agree with you. You mention the training end of things. I know because of my training. You also need to carry a proper tourniquet, as the days of belts and bandanas are past technology in First Aid Training. You also can't make a tourniquet from Duct Tape.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm the elf View Post
    Since you bring it up, it's probably worth reposting the Five Myths About Tourniquets article:

    http://www.traumamonkeys.com/blog/20...ut-tourniquets
    Nice article. It covers injuries from shootings in the military and active shooter situations quite well. It also dispels myths as well. It all comes down to training, knowing when and where a tourniquet should be used.

    Have a nice day.
    Blackheart

  8. #28

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    I have training beyond the norm but carry a small FAK. Instead of sutures, I carry absorbable hemostat, steri strips and benzoin, and the backpacking basics. At one time, I felt obligated to carry extra supplies but don't anymore (with the exception of aspirin for all you old guys).

    My biggest strengths aren't the supplies but the medical knowledge and the ability to be in charge and lead during a crises.

    Anyone can educate themselves on first aid and I recommend American Red Cross Emergency Medical Response and also Wilderness First Responder, How to Recognize, Treat, and Prevent Emergencies in the Backcountry. There are also several sites (i.e. Trauma Monkeys) with great information on how to manage trauma and emergencies.
    Last edited by Traffic Jam; 06-27-2017 at 17:45.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traffic Jam View Post
    At one time, I felt obligated to carry extra supplies but don't anymore (with the exception of aspirin for all you old guys). ..........

    As an old guy I thank you for your thoughtfulness. I carry aspirin for the other old guys.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  10. #30
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    Good grief. We are talking about a thru hike correct? A couple bandaids, a couple safety pins, a couple aspirin, a bandana and some duct tape. You can add and add all day long to your kit and still not have enough for all the scenarios you make up in your heads.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by KDogg View Post
    Good grief. We are talking about a thru hike correct? A couple bandaids, a couple safety pins, a couple aspirin, a bandana and some duct tape. You can add and add all day long to your kit and still not have enough for all the scenarios you make up in your heads.

    I wasn't sure that we were talking only about an AT thru-hike. I don't carry a FAK based only for myself or based on likely AT situations. The AT is not the center of my hiking world nor is it the center of every medical emergency. That is why I stated:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Good question Buckeye bill. Being certified in Wilderness First Aid(16 hr, 2 day class) and as a First Responder ABSOLUTELY YES I do sometimes carry more than the most UL most basic FKT. A BIG FAT NO to duct tape fixing everything!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Egilbe, what I carry depends on where and whom I'm going... or if I'm going with others. Let me clarify. Duct tape in itself absolutely does not "fix" everything. I do carry a set of gloves solo backpacking.
    YES, to ScareBear's rec to carrying a set of hemostats and Traffic Jam's steri strips. An epi pen might be something I add to the FAK as well. Again my decisions about what's in my trail FAK depends on where and whom I'm going or if I'm going with others or leading a group.

  12. #32

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    It also depends on exactly what I'm involved. Are rafting/paddling, climbing, winter season, outside of the U.S., etc involved.

  13. #33

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    Originally Posted by OCDave
    Curious; what you are carrying in your pack that will "fix" this skull?




    I was saying that duct tape alone will not fix it. I am also not fixing it, I am protecting the area from further infection by ample use of gauze pads and then wrapping it with a roll of gauze, because duct tape will not work with hair. You can then use a small piece of duct tape to hold the gauze in place. But with injuries like this you also need to check the eyes and level of consciousness. Slurred speech. This is information that will help the responding agencies know what they are facing. Again I am not playing doctor here, but I needed more than bandaides, mole skin and Duct tape to fix it.

    Originally Posted by PennyPincher
    This.

    If you've had the training you know what you will and won't be able to do in the woods and how to improvise the things you can help with. Anything more serious than a bandaid, moleskin or ibuprofen means you need to get the person off the trail and then your best bet is to have a cell phone to call help.




    I never said I would do things out side my training or could not improvise things in the woods. I also agree certain types of injuries require getting that person off the trail fast. However there are injuries that you shouldn't or can't move them without additional equipment that is not practical to carry on the trail (i.e. Backboards, Stokes Stretchers). You also are assuming that the person is still directly on the trail. I am also covering the person that took a header over the side of the trail.

    I was asking in my original post that if you had training beyond band aides, mole skin and duct tape would you carry some additional items in your FAK.



    Originally Posted by PennyPincher
    Update your training. Tourniquets do not get "released" until the person is in a hospital these days.



    Here again I agree with you. You mention the training end of things. I know because of my training. You also need to carry a proper tourniquet, as the days of belts and bandanas are past technology in First Aid Training. You also can't make a tourniquet from Duct Tape.



    Originally Posted by Sarcasm the elf
    Since you bring it up, it's probably worth reposting the Five Myths About Tourniquets article:

    http://www.traumamonkeys.com/blog/20...ut-tourniquets



    Nice article. It covers injuries from shootings in the military and active shooter situations quite well. It also dispels myths as well. It all comes down to training, knowing when and where a tourniquet should be used.

    Have a nice day.


    Nicely replied.

  14. #34

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    I like to say I only carry duct tape and aspirin for my first aid kit.
    But, looking in my small ditty bag in my pack, I also see: tiny tube of superglue, safety pins, dental floss, sewing kit.
    I've needed the duct tape for cuts already, but the rest was just to fix gear that broke.

    Years ago, my buddy had a substantial first kit on a trip we did around 5 of the 8,000 meter peaks in Nepal (Manasalu, Annapurnas, and Dhalaguiri)
    When in a small village, a man cut his thumb pretty badly and my friend fixed him up.
    The next morning there was a line outside of our small camp area with people with all kinds of ailments.
    Mostly we gave them aspirin and told them to rest.
    Don't let your fears stand in the way of your dreams

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    YES, to ScareBear's rec to carrying a set of hemostats and Traffic Jam's steri strips. An epi pen might be something I add to the FAK as well. Again my decisions about what's in my trail FAK depends on where and whom I'm going or if I'm going with others or leading a group.
    In my exerience, steri strips aren't worth crap without some sort of "glue", thus the benzoin.

  16. #36
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    Well, since the thread is in the AT section of this forum, I answered in relation to hiking the AT.
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    Well, since the thread is in the AT section of this forum, I answered in relation to hiking the AT.
    I never meant anything personal in my reply. You brought up several valid points, that all could be pretty much with one word; Training.

    While I am not properly trained to do, if I had a big gash that would normally require stitches, I would break out the sewing kit and stitch myself up if I could reach it. If I couldn't reach it, I would kindly ask someone else to do it. Please no Rambo remarks, that would be just plain stupid. Again nothing personal towards anyone.
    Blackheart

  18. #38

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    I have been thru the WFR training. I have done the BoyScout Leader thing. Somewhere in the middle is where I stand. I have 2 pair non-laytex gloves with what many hikers would thinks is too much first aid stuff. I have made 4 different !st aid packs that I carry, on different types of hikes. I belive in taking care of my own problems and helping with others.
    For my LASHER treks I carry a .3 lbs first aid kit. I can take care of all the mundane crape and many of the more crazy things. Get help ASAP. Is the best 1st aid. The mind is the best weapon in any self defence. 1st aid is 1st aid. 2nd aid is where the medics come in. 2nd/3rd aid is the doctor in the ER.
    In the woods it is not always needed to be a trained Doctor. Get the subject stable to the point available and get help.
    Most out back 1st aid is minor cuts, blisters and twisted joints, etc. If it is major trauma then the story changes. The major trauma does not happen all the time. The helpers must remain calm and have a plan to get help ASAP. CPR training needs to be required every year in school from age 9 to 18 in this country. Just think how that would better the world we live in.


    Have Fun & Hike Safe (HFHS)
    There are wonders out there, now to find them.

  19. #39
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    My two favorite quotes on the subject sum up my feelings.

    Do I bring all of the items which I have listed in the Wilderness Medical Kit Modules in Appendix A? Yes! And No! It depends.

    If hiking the Appalachian Trail I would carry a few pieces of Spenco 2nd Skin and tape, ibuprofen, Imodium, and possibly a decongestant. The rest of my load would be food and the other direct necessities of life, certainly not first aid items.
    William W. Forgey, M.D., "Wilderness Medicine, 4th Edition"

    In many accidents a stimulant is required. Don't carry whiskey- if you don't drink it up yourself the first time you feel bad, then someone will surely steal it. For the camp medical kit, get a bottle of pure grain alcohol. Put a fake label on it- "Antiseptic-Poison"- with a death's-head that even a savage will understand.
    Uncle Horace



  20. #40
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    I was an EMT outside of SEKI in my 20's.

    Bandaids, Neosporin, 3 safety pins (mostly for hanging laundry off my backpack or in trees), needle, ibuprofen, aspirin, 1' of Leukotape, I'm also fond of Nexa Absolutely waterproof tape. It isn't absolutely water proof for multiple stream crossing or large mile days. It doesn't stick like Leukotape - which sometimes is a plus. But it is stretchy and sticks pretty well and doesn't take some of your skin off when you remove it. And I bought a lot of it on Amazon, so I have it. I also take a 2" chunk of foam emery-board to work on calluses.

    I've never actually used the bandaids but I occasionally give one away to a day hiking toddler with a scraped knee.

    I also carry a SPOT, but that is more of a 1/2 pound sleeping pill so that my family can sleep better when I'm out alone. If your family can sleep at night, I don't recommend that you carry one if you are on popular trails.

    I've tried using duct tape for blisters and it didn't work for me.

    I also practice injury prevention:

    Falling is probably the biggest cause of death and injury in the backcountry. I move with care and intention after taking a couple of bad falls. I don't multitask while walking (taking photos, eating, blowing nose, taking in views, etc. ). My worst fall was in Yosemite and I was looking at the views and a tree root reached up and grabbed my foot. (We all have different abilities and others are able to video, and eat, etc, while walking. It would appear that I'm unable to walk and chew gum at the same time.)

    I stop and rest and eat when needed. I know my own limits and try and stick to them.

    I keep my feet super clean so that I don't get blisters.

    I wear long sleeves and pants so that I don't get sunburned, poison oak and to deter mosquitos and ticks.

    I wash my hands often.

    And I'm careful driving to and from trailheads. Statistically, driving is the most dangerous part of a hike for most of us.
    Last edited by DLP; 06-28-2017 at 12:46.

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