Comparing rain jackets.

[MuddyWaters]

For every jacket Ive ever seen reviewed,

Two people can review the same jacket

One, will love it. Say its the best they ever used, stayed dry hiking all daay, yada yada

The other, will proclaim it is awful, dont work, they were wet, cut poor, hoods bad, etc

When outside humidity is 100%
You MUST achieve a higher water vapor concentration inside the jacket to have a driving force concentraation difference. This is what drives diffusion.
You can go this because warmer air inside will have higher moisture content.
But, now you will condense on the cold jacket, not diffuse.
Hence,.....breatheable jackets cannot breathe at all as outside humidity approaches 100%. Which it do in the rain. They just condense.

[Greenlight]

And any outside pockets at all? A "must have" in my book.

Left breast pocket.


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[Elaikases]

For every jacket Ive ever seen reviewed,

Two people can review the same jacket

One, will love it. Say its the best they ever used, stayed dry hiking all daay, yada yada

The other, will proclaim it is awful, dont work, they were wet, cut poor, hoods bad, etc

When outside humidity is 100%
You MUST achieve a higher water vapor concentration inside the jacket to have a driving force concentraation difference. This is what drives diffusion.
You can go this because warmer air inside will have higher moisture content.
But, now you will condense on the cold jacket, not diffuse.
Hence,.....breatheable jackets cannot breathe at all as outside humidity approaches 100%. Which it do in the rain. They just condense.

That seems to be what I'm seeing over, and over again.

The statistics were interesting to me.

Over half the jackets in a recent survey were one of these three:

Top 10 Backpacking Rain Jackets

The most popular rain jacket purchased by the backpackers we surveyed is the Marmot Precip Jacket, perhaps the best known waterproof/breathable outdoor recreation jacket ever made. An astonishing 28.8% of our survey respondents own this rain jacket, far more than any other, as shown in the table below.

Rain Jacket	% Owned	MSRP (USD)	Satisfaction 1-5
Marmot Precip Jacket	28.8	100.00	4.07
Frogg Toggs UL Suit	13.2	24.99	4.10
Outdoor Research Helium II	8.14	159.00	4.04

Not surprising, the most important feature was price.

Most Important Purchase Criteria

What are the most important reasons that backpackers give for purchasing one jacket over another?

Criteria	% Reported
Cost	71.80
Lightweight	55.20
Waterproofing	27.80
Packable/Compressible	26.80
Ventilation (Pit Zips)	26.10
Manufacturer Reputation	24.10
Breathability	17.30
Fit/Sizing	16.50
Durability	12.90
Pocket Distribution	9.00

I found the comments in the original article interesting as well.

Really interesting.

[Elaikases]

I did not quote the entire article or the entire survey results (I cut off when the response level got low). The other rain jackets used are a large collection of 1-2 percent groups.

But the comments made the article's points. Which I also found interesting.

[Ethesis]

I'm finding the longer rain jackets attractive as a result.

Eg things like https://sierradesigns.com/mens-elite-cagoule/

[saltysack]

And any outside pockets at all? A "must have" in my book.

No pockets or pit zips...but for -$150 performance is great....with that said I rarely hike in hot weather....


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[Rain Man]

No pockets or pit zips...but for -$150 performance is great....with that said I rarely hike in hot weather....

Just want to compare apples to apples.

[Elaikases]

I'm looking at the Helium II Hybrid right now. No pit zips, but something very close.

https://www.backcountryedge.com/outd...Fde1wAodYpoFLw -- at about a hundred dollars.

Reviews have been mixed, but interesting. http://www.trailspace.com/gear/outdo...hybrid-jacket/

https://www.climbing.com/gear/review...hybrid-jacket/

Just not a lot of reviews or market penetration.

https://www.outdoorresearch.com/blog...-hybrid-jacket

Search results here only got me some Helium ii comments, but nothing on the hybrid.

[Pinnah]

IME, I use rain jackets to regulate my temp, not to stay dry.

I consider pit zips a must.

I stay drier and more comfortable ins a light waterproof breathable compared to non breathable.

[Ethesis]

IME, I use rain jackets to regulate my temp, not to stay dry.

I consider pit zips a must.

I stay drier and more comfortable ins a light waterproof breathable compared to non breathable.

thank you for the input.

[BuckeyeBill]

I stated earlier about my use of a Packa. It took some time before pulling the trigger on it until I thought of a couple things. I use to use a Marmot Precip which sells for around $100.00. I also needed a pack cover which runs around $30.00. Using both of these, required taking off my pack, getting them out, putting them on then cinching up my pack again. Having my pack on over the Precip limited its ability to breath, allowed rain to soak my pack straps, and rain to get in between my back and the pack. Now for the same $130.00 I would have spent for a Precip and a pack cover, I got a Packa that weighs the same as the Precip, can be put on as a pack cover everyday, breaths better than the Precip, closes the space between my back and pack and covers the pack straps. I am also able to reach things in the pack pockets to retrieve items, something a regular pack cover blocks.

[Pinnah]

With the Packa, I'm guessing you need to take off your Packa to get stuff out of your pack?

[BuckeyeBill]

I carry snacks in my pockets and have a water reservoir for with a tube on my shoulder strap. I carry my tarp on the side in between my pack and the cover. I can set the tarp up without taking the Packa off. Once underneath the tarp, I can then take my pack off for anything else I might need all while staying dry.

[mychaljohn]

I carry snacks in my pockets and have a water reservoir for with a tube on my shoulder strap. I carry my tarp on the side in between my pack and the cover. I can set the tarp up without taking the Packa off. Once underneath the tarp, I can then take my pack off for anything else I might need all while staying dry.

Can you expand a bit on where you keep your tarp? I can't visualize how you can reach it.

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[BuckeyeBill]

Can you expand a bit on where you keep your tarp? I can't visualize how you can reach it.

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I have a Packa size Large X. If you go to the Packa website and watch the video with the guy in the blue Packa, you will see how the Packa is worn and how the jacket portion is stored. I put my tarp in the same area that the jacket is stored. I am able to reach back either under the jacket portion or thru the pit zip and pull it out. I have an HG cuben fiber tarp that stores in a mesh sleeve. It folds up relatively flat. I store the stakes I need in a small stuff sack along with my continuous ridge line on the opposite side of the pack. I also have a small piece of tyvek that I can lay my pack on once I get my tarp up and remove the Packa from it. The pack stays dry and clean. I can then open my pack and get my hammock and tree straps out of my pack and put the Packa back on and hang the tree straps and hang the hammock under the tarp. Again everything stays dry and clean.

If I am between stopping points and it is raining when it comes time to eat, I setup my tarp in the porch mode and cook or just eat under it. The mesh sleeve allows sopping up the rain off of it with a piece of Shamwow that I carry just for that purpose. After I first got the Packa, it took me some time and several setups and tear downs to get it working right. Now I got it down to about 7-8 minutes. The tarp is big enough for several people to stand or sit under it while they eat. When I/we finish eating I just reverse the process and hike to the next way point.

Sorry about mot taking any pictures or videos of myself doing it , but I am in Mississippi right now driving the back roads looking for older cars to buy. let me know if this clears things up.

[Ethesis]

Thanks for the input. Packas look interesting.

[TSWisla]

This is an interesting topic. I reluctantly carry one of the Costco rain jackets with me, but it is a bit bulky and heavy. I don't have rain pants, but I have never had to hike in the rain before. It seems like a lot of extra gear to carry (jacket and pants). Is it really necessary?

[Rain Man]

Depends on season and weather. I always carry a rain jacket. Even without rain, it's a wind jacket, keeps me warm when I stop for lunch, arrive at camp, or any time I stop for a bit and my metabolism shuts down. Even summer evenings can be cool and chilly, especially with a little breeze. Being at any elevation can really cause chill, too.

Rain pants I only take when I'm expecting rain and/or the season and/or elevation would be such that I know the weight is worth the comfort and safety. There have been occasions when I was really happy to have rain pants, but as I said, I rarely take them.

This is an interesting topic. I reluctantly carry one of the Costco rain jackets with me, but it is a bit bulky and heavy. I don't have rain pants, but I have never had to hike in the rain before. It seems like a lot of extra gear to carry (jacket and pants). Is it really necessary?

[Ethesis]

This is an interesting topic. I reluctantly carry one of the Costco rain jackets with me, but it is a bit bulky and heavy. I don't have rain pants, but I have never had to hike in the rain before. It seems like a lot of extra gear to carry (jacket and pants). Is it really necessary?

Take the 32 degree rain jacket from Costco and put it in a large zip lock instead of the stuff sack they sold it in. It will weigh almost half as much.

As for rain pants, I had a friend who hiked a section on the continental divide. He got rain or rain/sleet every day. He just used shorts and got wet as did his two daughters. I am learning to like rain kilts.

You really need something in the rain to manage your warmth so you don't freeze.

I've used two different ponchos and just bought my third rain jacket.

I've one that is rain proof, but too heavy. I returned the 32 degrees as it was not rain proof enough for me.

(It performed much like the original Helium Hybrid). Just bought a new Helium Hyprid.

I will note a lot of people use and like Frogg Toggs.

[Ethesis]

The original Helium Hybrid was waterproof in some zones and water resistant in others.

The new one is waterproof except where pit zips would be (and the matching under side of the sleeves) which are water resistant.

Others pick up the waterproof tyvik sleeves you can get and use them with a poncho.

Lightweight ponchos are cheap and and all over but I personally hate drenched arms.

Sleeved ponchos are out there and many people like them.

I am rambling a little. But that is the nature of the issue.

Choices:

Nothing. Just get soaked. Hyperthermia likely to occur in three seasons but not summer.

Waterproof. Does not breathe, sweat build up will get to you.

Waterproof, but pit zips so you can vent under your arms.

Water resistant. Varying degrees of resistance from the same as waterproof to soak through after five minutes of light rain.

Advantage is that they are breathable yet still work as wind shells. Regulates heat loss from rain.

For legs ...

just wear shorts. Get wet. Lots of people do this.

Ponchos and Cagoules cover your thighs. Can be matched with convertible pants.

You can waterproof from the knees down.

Rain pants. Wear them when doing laundry too. Frogg Toggs are cheap and light.

Rain kilts. Long and short. Short rain kilts cover to the knees. I've met guys who hike in them and compression shorts 24/7. Longer ones keep you as dry as rain pants.

They breath well. Long ponchos cover the same area. You can find ponchos that are waist length to those that are all the way to your ankles.

You will find find what you like.

I'm currently going with a jacket and kilt. Changing the kilt for a lighter one. I went from convertible pants to non -- but I burn easily. I need the protection so the zip off doesn't happen much. I may go back.

Hope that helps.