What to do if snake bitten?

[rocketsocks]

Wow, I really thought that the original post was a reasonable question. Oh well.

Seeing as this discussion has already gone off the rails, I'll just leave this here.

i think if one gets bit, a sense of humor about he situation could come in quite handy

[rocketsocks]

Ha ha ha. Reminds me of a story on my last April backpacking trip---with some imaginary buddies---

We all smile and chew on questionable mushrooms which Philip says are mountain apples. They sure don't taste like apples. After we eat a dozen or more Philip thinks they must be poisonous mountain apples just as Johnny pitches forward with blood shooting out of his 9 orifices.

'Here quick!" I tell Philip. "Blow dog saliva up his pee hole" and Philip does a double take and our dog looks pensive. Afterwards Philip is exhausted but it seems to help as Johnny does a back flip into a briar patch and then a gleeful forward somersault out again.

LOL, reminds me of and old joke...
I remember the punch line but not the joke, oh well.
"No, you don't understand, Chunks was the dog"

[Sarcasm the elf]

...........

[OCDave]

Not sure if this is point of vocabulary or a point about getting things off the Internet. If a point of vocabulary, thanks for the tip.

No; just the opposite.

[Alligator]

I receive basic first aid training generally yearly. Snake bites are almost always covered. It really is basic first aid and so one doesn't exactly need to be a doctor, nurse, or even an emt to offer a suggestion. Next. The course is typically taught by an emt and uses standard training materials put together by either the Red Cross or Blue Cross Blue Shield. Based on the course, and the parts I find most applicable to my life, I may repeat some of the information during discussions like these. The admonition to seek professional medical help while sound does not need to be wielded like a sword in the discussion. On any question asked here you may not know the background of the person answering. Any response could be total BS. Wouldn't be too much discussion if every time someone asks a question the answer is "Go ask a real person that you know in person who knows". Even asking one's doctor about hiking related material, they might not know how being remote affects the situation or they might be incorrect.

Ralph23, the general medical advice is not to apply a tourniquet. In a venomous snake bite, swelling can occur. This would make the tourniquet dangerous for the limb. Recommendations are also to remove rings or bracelets or other possible restrictions like tight clothing. The rest of the information provided though ralph23 about extraction times is in line with discussions about wilderness extraction I have been given. It may take up to 8 hours for help to get to you, just depends on where you are. A person doesn't keel over and die immediately upon being bit, a person has several hours to get antivenin but immediate help is best. Another recommendation many times given from medical sources is to keep the bite area below the heart so as to not assist the venom in traveling easily within your body.

My experience with poisonous snakes has been to encounter them while walking on the trail. I consider a leg strike to be more likely. People can get bit reaching into a snake's zone when they are out sunning. Rocky outcrops make nice rest areas but snakes like them too. And there are the idiots who can't resist playing with snakes which is often a hand bite.
If unable to contact medical personnel through cell service, I would take out my map and estimate the closest extraction point by vehicle. Coming in on an ATV is a possibility as well, so be aware of that. Generally not hard to come in a rural setting. If reasonably close, I would go ahead and walk there. I would consider the availability of cell service on the way. If a road/jeep trail is not reasonably close I would consider the possibility of getting cell service and finding a suitable helicopter landing zone or someplace suitable for a longline as a worst case scenario. If I had a partner, I would send the partner to find help. I would follow a predetermined route to wherever we determined was an easy extraction point. I would probably hedge my bets with having my partner find cell service on a different route. Note the time of the bite.

If you can get service, the emergency response team will in most cases have good estimates for getting you help as ralph23 has pointed out. Try to provide a good estimate of your location which will speed your extraction, having a map is a good idea or a mapping app at the very least.

[ralph23]

Alligator, Thanks for the advice! Clearly I don't have much rural medicine experience. My only thought would be that applying a tourniquet is not recommended for average people. But what of someone who gets bit and then has to walk for 2-3 hours on their own to find help. Yes, the tourniquet isn't the first option but would it delay serious effects of the bite to ensure the person can seek that help? (Yes, we are talking about a very specific situation here and the answer shouldn't effect anyone's decision process for most snake bites)

[FlyPaper]

Perhaps I started this thread poorly. Let me share what I have learned about what to do if bitten by a snake.

1. Keep Calm. (Often other injuries come from panic). Keep affected area below heart and restrict movement.
2. Remove constricting items in anticipation of swelling.
3. Allow the bite to bleed freely for 15-30 seconds before cleansing.
4. Create a loose splint...
5. Contact medical help asap.
6. Evacuate immediately by hiking to a car, a helicopter or medical staff
7. Monitor vital signs.
8. Attempt to identify snake, and bring in the dead snake, but only if can be done safely.

Don't
1. Don't let victim engage in strenuous physical activity.
2. Don't apply tourniquet.
3. Don't apply a cold pack.
4. Don't apply a suction device.
5. Don't allow victim to eat or drink anything unless okayed by medical staff.
6. Don't attempt oral suction.

#5 and #6 in the upper list seem the most problematic when in a remote location. It does not seem like the advice to "hike to a car" would be followed by the words "no matter how far it is" and possibly not with "even if night hiking is necessary". There is also no mention of what to do if you cannot contact medical help for at least several hours or even overnight.

This is really the starting point for the discussion and the presumption is that we all have, or can easily get the same baseline of information about what to do if you're not really that remote.

...Continued on next post...

[FlyPaper]

A few other points that I may have mentioned...

1. I give everyone here credit for understanding that not everything they read on the Internet is true. Let's all agree beforehand that we understand that so this won't have to keep coming up. And please give me credit for understanding that too. Nevertheless, we all seem to learn many things on the Internet and actually believe them to be true.

2. I give everyone here credit for understanding that properly trained individuals know better than the average person. Please trust the fact that I understand this too. Once this is established, we don't have to repeat this in every thread or multiple times in this thread.

3. I am not going to make an appointment with my Primary Care Physician to discuss this. Mostly it is because I think my chances of being bit in a remote setting are extremely low. But I am also going to make a guess that no one reading this has made an appointment with their primary care physician, yet all of us are going to continue hiking anyway. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If many of the hikers you know have had, or intend to have discussions with their primary doctors about remote snake bite scenarios, then I guess I'm the negligent one. But I really think I am more typical of the average hiker. If sometime in the future I am bitten in a remote location, I will choose my course of action based on what I've learned on the Internet and whatever other information I find credible from other sources.

4. I have learned nearly everything I know about snake bites from the Internet. Before the Internet, I would have thought it was a good idea to suck out the poison orally. Now I believe differently. I have formed that opinion from reading on the Internet, mostly from sites that sound helpful. I have no independent medical training nor source to use to double check what I am getting from the Internet. And unless I miss my guess, most of us are in the same boat. Again, correct me if I'm wrong. If all of you have a library of medical books you use to double check advice you get on the Internet, I guess by comparison I'm taking a risky shortcut.

As I've contemplated writing this, I see "Alligator" has chimed in. He sounds very credible to me, although I have no personal knowledge. Again, this is the Internet. "Alligator" could be an very articulate 14 year old for all we know. Nevertheless, in absence of any other information that convinces me otherwise between now and some future remote snake bite, I would be very much inclined to follow all of his advice even though he is a complete stranger and has provided no proof that he has any actual training.

[rocketsocks]

...........

bear spray I guess

[Tinstaafl]

Also with a little practice and paying attention you can generally "smell" copperheads before you are close enough to be bitten ... the smell is best described as sour cucumber.

I'm well acquainted with that smell; I live in copperhead country. Just wanted to mention that in my personal experience, the smell only presents itself when the critter is agitated and ready to do business. If he's just hanging out and staring at his navel, nothing.

So if you do catch a whiff, best freeze, fight or get out of Dodge--as appropriate.

[saltysack]

My hiking buddy got bit on the butt during a morning constitutional, so I ran to town to get help. I found a Doctor and asked what should we do? He said I had to suck the venom out and spit....so I ran back to the trail, found him and said I found a doctor! he asked "well, what did he say?" So I told him!
"The Doctor said you are going to die"

Haaa my dad told that same joke and another version where he got bit on the dong.....he then walked into the pharmacist and asked what to do...she asked to see it.....she took a look and offered him $50


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rocketsocks]

Haaa my dad told that same joke and another version where he got bit on the dong.....he then walked into the pharmacist and asked what to do...she asked to see it.....she took a look and offered him $50


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dats da one!

[Alligator]

I've been trapped in a basement since 2003 and I don't know how old I am. My earliest memory is of a green lighted screen, it was May 2. I don't think it's my mom's basement cause I know that the person that feeds me is just a dude with a wig and he'll never be my mom no matter what he says.

[MuddyWaters]

Watch where you put hands , feet, and butt
and you wont get bit

Do you worry about what to do if you are in a really bad car crash in the middle of nowhere?
Exact same thing, wait no, thats much much worse. Better worry about it some.

[FreeGoldRush]

What happens to you after a rattlesnake bite to your leg that injects venom? What can you expect in the first hour or the 8th hour while trying to talk someone into getting you out of there?

[devoidapop]

Watch where you put hands , feet, and butt
and you wont get bit

Do you worry about what to do if you are in a really bad car crash in the middle of nowhere?
Exact same thing, wait no, thats much much worse. Better worry about it some.

Why do you care what other people want to worry about, wonder about, or discuss. If you think it's silly, move on. Or start a thread about avoiding snake bites or always being right. Why does everything warrant a negative response?

[MuddyWaters]

Why do you care what other people want to worry about, wonder about, or discuss. If you think it's silly, move on. Or start a thread about avoiding snake bites or always being right. Why does everything warrant a negative response?

Its a difficult to answer question

Theres only three things you CAN do

1. Call for help. Cell , plb, spot, etc
2. Send someone else for help
3. Try to self-rescue

What you do, depends heavily on circumstances
To heavily to give a blanket answer

In all cases if waiting for rescue you will be still, elevate limb below heart, keep heart rate down to slow spread...basic stuff.

If you are worried about it, carry a satellite communicator....period

Same goes for heart attack, fall, broken leg, etc, etc, etc
Nothing special about a snake bite, just a fear someone is focusing on, while ignoring others of similar or greater risk. If one actually goes and hikes...these fears dissapear.

In all cases, prevention should be the main focus

[rocketsocks]

Well, one thing I know for sure...I'm gettin' a nice wallet outta the ordeal

[DownEaster]

Perhaps a good idea for the 100 mile wilderness.

There aren't any poisonous snakes in Maine, so wearing snake-proof gaiters there is purely wasted effort.

[MuddyWaters]

Always good to remember antivenin can cost $15,000-$80,000 as well. The good thing is you probably wont get it without bringing in snake.