Another FKT attenpt

[Linesman]

So Knotts... Anyone see his midway post on Facebook? Claiming 25 days. Thats way ahead of where Joey was on day 25 in 2014. Not a lot in the way of evidence besides a half emaciated frame. I'd love to hike a day or two with him when he gets to Connecticut, just to follow him would show pretty quickly if hes for real.

[Just Bill]

Matt K. Did it in shenandoah, right?
Just a byproduct of a shenandoah run

Cant break it in NY...just set something totally different, arbitrary, and meaningless

Some other .....runner....will pick the easiest 100 miles of trail to make a name for themselves

There no shortage of ultra runners that can put in 100 mi in under 24 hrs. Some finish the hardrock under 24.

In FKT land at Bakwin's site...
the NY run would probably set an OKT (only known time)... guess I technically have a few of those but haven't claimed them. It's exactly what it sounds like. When someone picks a new route to go for, they spell it out what they did and then someone can come along and try if it's worth trying to best it.

In the case of Matt's record- which I believe is Horton's OKT...
The rules are the most miles on the AT in 24 hours. Could be any stretch you want provided it's the official trail. The only other restriction is the 24 hour mark. Shennies just makes good sense logistically as it's a supported effort.
Suppose NY area and all the crossings might be a good spot too.

Matt intentionally chose that section for the location of that, and was specifically there to best that FKT. He had a partner that started with him and had to drop.

Kind of an obscure record but it came up again a few times during ninja's BS... seeing as that was hot spot in her timeline and it was brought up as a neat co-winky-dink that the best effort ever to happen in a 24 hour period happened in the spot she claimed some extra ordinary mileage. Bethany Patterson had vocally challenged her for a repeat there as she had attempted the feat with fresh legs and couldn't do it. I wasn't really aware of who she was but ended up talking to her on FB some at the time and Matt's effort there is still considered very stout. Not untouchable but a hard FKT to pull off. So doing it in NY would be pretty impressive.

[Just Bill]

I re-read that comment on the FKT pro board. Looks like he was talking in the future tense about Salisbury?

That's a fair statement... it is confussing.
I suppose i'm still of the same opinion as always. If you got time to post your name on Peter's site, you got time to research the record.
An if'n you done that; I can't imagine the thought of a hitch would enter your mind if you were serious.

So Knotts... Anyone see his midway post on Facebook? Claiming 25 days. Thats way ahead of where Joey was on day 25 in 2014. Not a lot in the way of evidence besides a half emaciated frame. I'd love to hike a day or two with him when he gets to Connecticut, just to follow him would show pretty quickly if hes for real.

Knotts is SOBO yes? 25 days halfway sobo would put him on sub-50 level pace. Joey was nobo. Can't recall Karl's halfway days off hand and don't have that handy.

He's got a spot (though seems to be some issues per him on FKT) and it's tracked through a third party site so at least he took that part to heart.

I'm not gunna crap on the guy... don't know anything about him other than he's putting up a pretty sweet bucket list of LD hikes on his blog in a relatively short amount of time. That's what Ward did... walked and walked and walked and walked.

What's his name from Pa'Lante packs (Johnathan Z?) just put up a pretty serious Colorado Trail FKT seemingly by simply committing to full time hiker trash lifestyle.

As we often quip: the only way to train for backpacking is backpacking.
With apps, access, and connectivity amongst LD hikers I expect we'll see a few more folks like this start popping up. Putting up a dozen LD hikes in a few years time will make you pretty badass... especially for some of those coming out of the PCT who get accustomed to bigger miles right out of the gate.

Joey is a pretty serious athlete period... he was just new to the trail and LD hiking period when he went last time.
That said I would think a multi-trail long distance hiker would be pretty familiar with the FKT, especially after ninja.
I don't know... maybe it's a WB thing and not as well known as I tend to think among the newest hikers.

Either way... if a Joey Camps situation ever comes again I hope they have as much class and integrity as he does.

I'd like to think the ninja ignorance argument is not going to fly again... even if the rest is legit.

But not five minutes after we were done with Kathryn's attempt and watching her parting video was Doyle on her you tube page telling her hitching is fine. So you won't displace Anish... but you could claim thru-hiker style... and that seems wide open unfortunately. Technically Ward still holds the "thru hiker style" FKT... and Matt and Anish hold another.
And while it sucks, it's early days in the FKT world so who knows how it will shake out.

I'm not a purist- HYOH- it's your vacation. I could give a crap but once you claim to do something you ought to have done it.
But much like a thru has become a trip from Georgia to Maine along the AT corridor for many- it don't make it a thru-hike any more than ignoring the guidelines of those who came before you makes it an FKT in my book.

[MuddyWaters]

Either way... if a Joey Camps situation ever comes again I hope they have as much class and integrity as he does.

.

Still hoping he takes another shot at it

[chknfngrs]

I thought camps was going again. Maybe not? As always thanks for the highly technical commentary! This is why whiteblaze is better than cable!!!

[Just Bill]

Later season Sobo for Joey if all goes well.

http://airandrice.com/

This is Joey's buddy Aaron. Who set the world record last year for(if I don't mess this up) most self powered vertical feet of skiing.
As in he walked up, ski'd down. 2.5 million feet in a year. Previous was 2 mil. Not being a ski guy I can't quite wrap my head around that accomplishment.

I'm a Midwesterner, so I don't think in vert. But that is a hell of a lot of hiking. 80 something Everest's from sea level? How many miles, how close to how many AT hikes worth of vertical gain?

Point being-
Joey helped him out. And racked up HALF of those feet himself. Half a record in his spare time helping his buddy set a record.
Jerker stopped by for a week or so to help Karl?... imagine if he came by for 1100 miles of pacing just to keep him company.

Somewhere in there he biked from Utah to Colorado and back along the divide and across it. He has a very nice broad base of multi-sport training that seems to be pretty ideal- and mostly it's playing and chasing the seasons.

So if Joey gets a chance... guessing them legs are gunna look real purdy.
He's got a solid coinflip's chance and then some. And while nobody "deserves it"... I'd like to think the trail will be kind to him.

[MuddyWaters]

Later season Sobo for Joey if all goes well.

http://airandrice.com/

This is Joey's buddy Aaron. Who set the world record last year for(if I don't mess this up) most self powered vertical feet of skiing.
As in he walked up, ski'd down. 2.5 million feet in a year. Previous was 2 mil. Not being a ski guy I can't quite wrap my head around that accomplishment.

its a sheetload.

If a good ski mountain is 2000 ft vert top-bottom
thats hiking that 1250 times

that would be a lot even riding a lift.....


Jackson Hole gives a belt buckle for achieving a lifetime total of 300,000, 500,000 and 1,000,000 vertical feet there. On a lift.

total elevation gain on AT is only 500,000 or so for comparison.

[Linesman]

Knotts is nobo, Bill. Maybe you're right and fast hikes aren't as difficult as we thought. Matt and Anish never claimed to be olympic athletes. It just takes training. I still find it compelling how an unsupported hiker cant thru the AT just 8 days slower than a pro ultrarunner. Somehow that is still surprising.

I tried to look into this live tracker, looks like he forgot to turn it off for some flights, not seeing any clear data.

PS Matt did the at faster and in better style than Ward. Ward holds no record (it was one of the delights of my hike a few summers ago meeting him on trail in Mass). Scott Williamson hit the supported record too on one of his PCT trips... you can break the supported going unsupported but not vica versa.

[Just Bill]

its a sheetload.

Precisely the number I calculated.

Knotts is nobo, Bill. Maybe you're right and fast hikes aren't as difficult as we thought. Matt and Anish never claimed to be olympic athletes. It just takes training. I still find it compelling how an unsupported hiker cant thru the AT just 8 days slower than a pro ultrarunner. Somehow that is still surprising.

I tried to look into this live tracker, looks like he forgot to turn it off for some flights, not seeing any clear data.

PS Matt did the at faster and in better style than Ward. Ward holds no record (it was one of the delights of my hike a few summers ago meeting him on trail in Mass). Scott Williamson hit the supported record too on one of his PCT trips... you can break the supported going unsupported but not vica versa.

I think you misunderstand...
There is a general approach when we hear about folks trying this. We take a peek to see if it's somebody worth watching... one way some like to do that is to peek at Strava or ultra-running results sites.
All I'm saying is that the Ward Leonard/Scott Williamson approach of hiking tons and tons is just as legitimate (if not more so for unsupported) a background to have to help weed out the dreamers from the real deal.
Jenn, Anish, and Joey wouldn't really post up in that ultra world for example. Though I think Heather has picked up ultra-running and Joey does a few.
Horton, Andrew Thompson, Matt Kirk have a mixed background of both hiking and running. Jurek and Meltzer are technically known as pure runners. Though none of them are pure anything but athletes.

So the only point I am making there is that a couple years of consistent thru hikes is a very legit route to hone the ability to pull this off- a solid resume. Nothing easy about it.
But "heard of somebody" or not... I wouldn't dismiss anyone who put up a few thousand miles of hiking over a relatively short period. It's the reason Skurka and Swami used to get bantered around quite a bit as contenders really- they were putting up several thousand miles a year for several years in a row. Hard as it is it's still backpacking at it's core.
The AT used to be a more traditional "first trail"... which can be a brutal place to hit high mileage days. There is something about simply having done a XX mile day to expand your mind on what's possible. With more folks starting out on the PCT or western trails now I suspect that those early mental mileage blocks are set much higher. A 30 is still a pretty monster day for an AT hiker... but fairly common to see from a first time PCT hiker. If you've got 20's locked in your mind when you start it's a bigger hurdle to jump than cutting your teeth with 30's in your mind. And being hiker trash is more common now... going from trail to trail was pretty unheard of even 10 years ago so I think we are likely to see more of these folks pop up.

Anywho- yar his tracker is a mess- I can at least tell he's NOBO. Looked like only a few random points popping up... I see little or no tracking up until Duncannon. Even if you were just doing 24 hour checkins you'd have way more pings. They aren't perfect and you will see some jump arounds that make you look like you cut trail but not that bad unless you just plain old aren't using it.

Maybe no hitches then... but huge gaps in his track that make no sense. Batteries hold out pretty decent in those to be dead within a day or two... and lotta town stops in 1100 miles to solve that problem.

IF Doyle and Peter want to hold out for "thru-hiker style" Ward still would have it. No one has bested his time in that style.

Matt would have set an OKT via the no-hitching Williamson style that Joey honored and Heather bested. That style was not previously attempted on the AT so Kirk should get honors as the pioneer of it.

While we all understand that Matt went above and beyond... if they really want to split the unsupported then they should split it between those who follow Williamson, Kirk, and Anderson's standard and those who follow Doyle's definition.

Yes- I know that's silly. Seems to be the ruling on the issue so to speak.

PS-
https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthr...Light-amp-Free

[Just Bill]

Guest

Appalachian Trail May 30, 2017 at 11:25am via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by on May 30, 2017 at 11:25am Heyyyy, I'm headed out for the AT self supported FKT starting Tomorrow May 26th. See you on TRAIL. Knotts Tracking can be found on my website. ☮️ Instagram: crazyknotts

http://fastestknowntime.proboards.co...n-trail?page=7


So not to be a total conspiracy nut... maybe a simple technical explanation or delay of when the cell signal got through and posted.

But starting tomorrow- May 26th.... should probably post on May 25th not May 30th methinks.

[Violent Green]

First off, that tracking website is terrible. Maybe it's just difficult to use on my phone? Going to be tough to rely solely on its data to confirm an FKT.

Either way, from what bits I can pick up, he's averaging something around 2-2.5mph on a lot of these days. That's a little on the slow side. Don't take this calculation as the gospel though.

[ARambler]

Guest

Appalachian Trail May 30, 2017 at 11:25am via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by on May 30, 2017 at 11:25am Heyyyy, I'm headed out for the AT self supported FKT starting Tomorrow May 26th. See you on TRAIL. Knotts Tracking can be found on my website. ☮️ Instagram: crazyknotts

http://fastestknowntime.proboards.co...n-trail?page=7


So not to be a total conspiracy nut... maybe a simple technical explanation or delay of when the cell signal got through and posted.

But starting tomorrow- May 26th.... should probably post on May 25th not May 30th methinks.

Appalachian Trail May 26, 2017 at 12:05am via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by on May 26, 2017 at 12:05am Heyyyy, I'm headed out for the AT self supported FKT starting Tomorrow May 26th. See you on TRAIL. Knotts Tracking can be found on my website. ☮️ Instagram: crazyknotts

Phoning this one in?

[MuddyWaters]

PS Matt did the at faster and in better style than Ward. Ward holds no record (it was one of the delights of my hike a few summers ago meeting him on trail in Mass). Scott Williamson hit the supported record too on one of his PCT trips... you can break the supported going unsupported but not vica versa.

I think Wards style was better personally.
Leather boots, external frame pack, WAY less services and trail amenities, way less planning, no internet information sources, etc. To hike the trail efficiently you had to KNOW the trail. Not look it up on an ithingy.
Ward was a real hiker of his day, mental issues aside. Easily offset any ride he might have recieved somewhere back then. No, he dont hold a FKT anymore, but he holds " firsts", which are more impressive really.

[matthew.d.kirk]

Perennial hitching chatter aside, a resolution to these hiccups in transparency/documentation would be nice. I was beginning to warm up to this third-party trackleaders.com website, especially with their delayed timestamp features. If this Knotts track is any indication, there are many kinks yet to be worked out. I'm not sure how many kinks are from the tech vs. the user. Props to Joey for having his documentation pretty much dialed from the get go. Why this is such a challenge for other aspirants, I don't know. This much I do know: 1. you don't have to be a computer programmer to post (on a delay) your trail data, daily splits, etc. as a transparent record of your journey 2. Salisbury doesn't require a hitch.

[Violent Green]

Why this is such a challenge for other aspirants, I don't know.

When it comes to humans, the most obvious answer is almost always the correct one. I think everyone here knows what that answer is, but are too nice to say it and want to give people the benefit of the doubt. Which is awesome.

However, after the Ninja debacle I think every FKT attempt requires some level of scrutiny. Not to rehash that whole incident, but if not for 1-2 folks stepping forward many would have set Karl's record aside and crowned a new champ.

[Just Bill]

Appalachian Trail May 26, 2017 at 12:05am via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by on May 26, 2017 at 12:05am Heyyyy, I'm headed out for the AT self supported FKT starting Tomorrow May 26th. See you on TRAIL. Knotts Tracking can be found on my website. ☮️ Instagram: crazyknotts

Phoning this one in?

Interesting... looking again he does appear to be "leaving tomorrow the 26th" on the 25th, 26th, and the 30th.

I think the most interesting thing not being discussed at this time is the implications of this development.
For some time those at the bleeding edges of this budding sport have been pushing the limits looking for an elusive edge.

While I think it's a bit early to say for sure... it's possible we are seeing the first glimmers of a long lost technique of ancient shamans (and Tom Brown Jr.). Perhaps with knotts rapid string of LD hiking trails in a relatively short period of time he has perhaps gained some small mastery of the most powerful medicine rumored to have been used by the first peoples when the need to traverse great distances was critical to the children of wakan tanka...time travel.

[Just Bill]

When it comes to humans, the most obvious answer is almost always the correct one. I think everyone here knows what that answer is, but are too nice to say it and want to give people the benefit of the doubt. Which is awesome.

However, after the Ninja debacle I think every FKT attempt requires some level of scrutiny. Not to rehash that whole incident, but if not for 1-2 folks stepping forward many would have set Karl's record aside and crowned a new champ.

While many might argue if it was a serious attempt... when I went on the LT FKT... I at least was taking it seriously. That said; the spot 3 had come out and I upgraded my plan to the fancy tracking option and 10 minute pings. Course what I failed to realize is that while the device was now set up for continuous tracking, I needed to re activate that feature every 24 hours. Thankfully I noticed something was off and restarted the tracker, but it wasn't until I was off trail that I found out that "continuous tracking" does not mean turn it on and hike as I thought it did. I figured I'd just leave it on for the length of the hike... but better to shut it down and then restart it each new day. On casual trips I've forgotten that too.

Again- didn't actually matter as that attempt was a bust... but had it gone well I would have had a good half day gap in my tracking for a more or less innocent mistake. Human error for sure. While I didn't get the best coverage overall from the Spot track... pinging every ten minutes seemed to generate at least one or two solid data points per hour and a good dozen or more per day. And that's in the type of terrain and area that trackers function poorly. So even when the spot gets goofed up and "behind schedule" on it's pings... it doesn't just try forever to send a ping and stop working... it cleared it's attempt after so many minutes of failure and started over. The tracker is not at the point where you will get a clean line of footprints... it occasionally pings you as several hundred yards off trail... but it's more than enough for a reasonable person to conclude that you were where your remaining documentation said you were. It's not a one stop shop and a traditional trip report is still the standard in my opinion. A track is simply exhibit A to that trip report.

So... a half day or so... per trip (even Jurek had a few) is understandable. Not posting a ping though for a week at a crack you might as well have just left the tracker at home... that's on him... the spot ain't perfect but it works way better than that.

An fer whatever it's worth... I like to think that somehow someway that person or two will always show up when needed.

Perennial hitching chatter aside, a resolution to these hiccups in transparency/documentation would be nice. I was beginning to warm up to this third-party trackleaders.com website, especially with their delayed timestamp features. If this Knotts track is any indication, there are many kinks yet to be worked out. I'm not sure how many kinks are from the tech vs. the user. Props to Joey for having his documentation pretty much dialed from the get go. Why this is such a challenge for other aspirants, I don't know. This much I do know: 1. you don't have to be a computer programmer to post (on a delay) your trail data, daily splits, etc. as a transparent record of your journey 2. Salisbury doesn't require a hitch.

You an yer fancy medical school talk

Garbage in garbage out... http://trackleaders.com/americantrail17
seems like they have their system working well enough for a higher profile multi-participant event... if my techno dumb dumb ass can manage to use a spot sans service... so can anyone.

1-I'm sure the service works fine if you turn your tracker on.
2-I was disappointed to find out that Salisbury's famous steaks were only available in the frozen food section of the grocery store.

Couple years old- but I had it at .3 off trail on my old sheets... clearly a daunting distance.
https://1drv.ms/b/s!Apygyt54yYPwyjRTywBroYMiDzQ6

Sides... you and Ol Man Willy agree Kent is still a fine place for a stop at a whopping .02 miles...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...vi0/edit#gid=0

Though the ol man tells me there is a fine bar just .1 miles off that serves Guinness and peppermint schnapps in inappropriate quantities.

He also tells me there are more than enough options to ever need a car on a hiking trip.

[ScottS]

That's common practice in the FKT community from the ultra side.
Kinda the basic goal of that board- to document efforts outside the official race setting. You need a point a and a point b and state lines or road crossings are pretty clear points to pick.

The AT has had the SCAR and the four state challenge for some time.

And Double SCAR! It's so very relevant!


State records are fun. All FKTs that make intuitive sense are fun (state lines, park boundaries, etc.) and I don't think the FKT and Strava worlds will really collide for quite some time if at all.

[matthew.d.kirk]

And Double SCAR! It's so very relevant!
...and I don't think the FKT and Strava worlds will really collide for quite some time if at all.

Ah, yes. The Double SCAR! Impressive unsupported mark you set out there, Scott. One day when we (hopefully) move back closer to the Smokies, I'd love to give that a go. Of course the dream is to go self-supported with resupply at Fontana Dam. By cutting the food weight in half, maybe 48 hours could be possible? Also, please educate me on the strava world you speak of...

[gracebowen]

Whats the SCAR?