Bear spray.

[KDogg]

While I was on the trail last year I heard that someone sprayed a bear that was trying to get the food hanging in the shelter. It pissed the bear off and it scratched them. Not sure if this is true but I could see it happening. Probably just best to leave your food anywhere else but where you are sleeping and the bear spray at home.

[LazyLightning]

I'm pretty sure bear spray is meant to be a last resort defense to use if a bear comes at you... I don't think approaching bears and spraying them to go away is what it's meant for.

[MuddyWaters]

I'm pretty sure bear spray is meant to be a last resort defense to use if a bear comes at you... I don't think approaching bears and spraying them to go away is what it's meant for.

Your correct.
The effects are short lived often as well.
About 3-4 yrs ago a bear took a thru hikers pack at cosby shelter while setting up their tent in gsmnp. While a dozen or more people were present. They sucessfully used spray to go after the bear, into the bushes, and get the pack back. But each time, the bear only went away for a minute before would return. Two bears hung around the shelter all night, walking back and forth in front of opening. In spite of hollering, rocks, etc from a full + shelter. A few days later it was closed and bears relocated.

[MuddyWaters]

the lady that was killed by a bear in 2000 in GSMNP-------parts of her were found inside the bear...............

Yup.
And if one looks at the list, in the last 7 yrs there been 7 fatal attacks.
3 were consumed,. With a 4th considered predatory as well.

[nsherry61]

Yup.
And if one looks at the list, in the last 7 yrs there been 7 fatal attacks.
3 were consumed,. With a 4th considered predatory as well.

Yeah, according to Wikipedia, 7 fatal black bear attacks in all of North America, mostly in Canada and Alaska. One was a caretaker feeding a bear outside its cage.
So, what are the odds? . . . maybe a 1:10,000,000 chance? There's been what, maybe one recorded fatality actually on the AT in recorded history?

Yes, black bears have been know to eat people, unlike grizzlies that until one recent attack in Denali, AK, have not been know to be predatory toward or eat people, just smack them around and occasionally kill them.

[MuddyWaters]

Yeah, according to Wikipedia, 7 fatal black bear attacks in all of North America, mostly in Canada and Alaska. One was a caretaker feeding a bear outside its cage.
So, what are the odds? . . . maybe a 1:10,000,000 chance? There's been what, maybe one recorded fatality actually on the AT in recorded history?

Yes, black bears have been know to eat people, unlike grizzlies that until one recent attack in Denali, AK, have not been know to be predatory toward or eat people, just smack them around and occasionally kill them.

Yep
Odds of fatality are quite low. Really low.
However, a few people are concerned with bodily injury and clean underwear, not just death.

The safety pyramid reveals to us that there are hundreds of close calls , injuries, and near misses for every fatality that occurs. So the real chance of adverse encounter is about 3 orders of magnitude greater. Something like 1 in a few thousand. Which is why we have occassional incidents, near misses, etc.,we hear about.

It is only a matter of #s and time till a death occurs, statistically speaking, where risk is involved. Major construction projects even have to plan for this.

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[Offshore]

...or the kid (college student) in NJ that got eatin' he prolly could have used some.

It was actually a group of students from Rutgers, not a lone hiker. They probably should have read all the instructions posted all over the trailheads and state parks in northern NJ about what to do in the event of a encountering a bear. They pretty much did everything wrong, starting with continuing on towards the bear when other hikers coming from the opposite direction warned them that there was a bear ahead, to ending with the group splitting up and running away when they (not surprisingly) came upon the bear which ultimately killed one of them. Did he deserve it? Absolutely not - but did the group did not act reasonably or responsibly by any measure. If you're hiking in bear country, you need to know how to avoid an encounter and failing that, what to do to maximize your chance of a good outcome. This information is posted on almost every trail kiosk in northern NJ, along with "You Are In Bear Country" warning signs. This is especially important in a state where possession of pepper-type sprays of over 3/4 of an ounce is a violation of state law. (Discuss amongst yourselves the risk vs. reward, etc.)

[MuddyWaters]

It was actually a group of students from Rutgers, not a lone hiker. They probably should have read all the instructions posted all over the trailheads and state parks in northern NJ about what to do in the event of a encountering a bear. They pretty much did everything wrong, starting with continuing on towards the bear when other hikers coming from the opposite direction warned them that there was a bear ahead, to ending with the group splitting up and running away when they (not surprisingly) came upon the bear which ultimately killed one of them. Did he deserve it? Absolutely not - but did the group did not act reasonably or responsibly by any measure. If you're hiking in bear country, you need to know how to avoid an encounter and failing that, what to do to maximize your chance of a good outcome. This information is posted on almost every trail kiosk in northern NJ, along with "You Are In Bear Country" warning signs. This is especially important in a state where possession of pepper-type sprays of over 3/4 of an ounce is a violation of state law. (Discuss amongst yourselves the risk vs. reward, etc.)

My understanding, is upon being warned of the bear, they went looking for it, took many pictures of it, and basically got too close for the bears comfort. When bear charged them, they all ran in different directions.

100% self inflicted unfortunately.

[Lnj]

I wish there was a particular scent or sound that bears just really hate that we could just spray around our campsite before bed time or have playing softly at our campsite before bed. Just so I could sleep without worry. Most semi-educated hikers know what to do in a bear encounter... if there are awake and lucid enough to form a thought. The problem is the midnight visit when you are sound asleep and very vulnerable. How to prevent a visit after dark... that is the question.

[The Kisco Kid]

If you're concerned about creatures you might encounter on the trail I suggest bug spray over bear spray, especially this year. Lyme disease is a serious issue.

[loguon_theguy]

Carrying bear spray to protect yourself from a possible bear attack along the AT is about as practical as carrying anti-venom to save yourself from a snake bite along the AT...

...and I think you're slightly more likely to be bit by a poisonous snake than you are to be attacked by a bear.

DEFINITELY. In my 3 short years of backpacking I've had a few close encounters with Copperheads and 1 with a rattlesnake. 1 small bear that ran for its life.

[MuddyWaters]

DEFINITELY. In my 3 short years of backpacking I've had a few close encounters with Copperheads and 1 with a rattlesnake. 1 small bear that ran for its life.

Ive been driving a car a few hrs per day for 35 yrs.
Never needed a seatbelt.

Still wear it

[Sarcasm the elf]

Ive been driving a car a few hrs per day for 35 yrs.
Never needed a seatbelt.

Still wear it

Cars kill around 40,000 Americans per year. Black bears kill around 0.5 Americans per year.

Seat belts save lives.

[Uncle Joe]

As I've said before, I probably wouldn't want to hike the GSNMP or NJ without bear spray. If for no other reason than piece of mind.

[HooKooDooKu]

As I've said before, I probably wouldn't want to hike the GSNMP or NJ without bear spray. If for no other reason than piece of mind.

It has been stated many times before in White Blazes "we pack our fears" (or words to that effect).

That said, IMHO based on 25 years of experience backpacking in GSMNP, there is no practical reason for an AT thru hiker (or a GSMNP hiker) to carry bear spray to protect themselves from bears.

In the last 25 years, there have only been three major bear attacks in GSMNP... all three previously listed: woman killed, teen dragged from hammock, and AT hiker attacked in their tent.
In all three instances, bear spray would have had no effect on these bear attacks.
1. The guy in the tent had the tent to block him from spraying the bear.
2. The teen dragged from his hammock had his head in the bear's teeth. If his father had any bear spray, he couldn't have used it on the bear without also using it on his son... and the attack still would have happened.
3. It's believed the woman was attacked while taking a nap. So the attack still would have happened... and while under attack, the woman likely would not have been in a position to use the spray to thwart the attacker.

The real purpose for bear spray is to spray the face of a bear that is charging you... in other words, you have to be facing your attacker. That sort of bear attack is beyond extremely rare with black bears.

And here's the thing... for bear spray to be effective, it has to be at the ready. And in all three of these cases, the people were either known to be sleeping or believed to have been sleeping when they were attacked. So most likely, bear spray would have had no effect on the outcome of these attacks:
1. The guy in the tent, even if he had had bear spray at the ready, there was a tent between him and his attacker.
2. The teen in the hammock would have still been attacked... and given that I believe the bear had the teen's head in his teeth, had is father had bear spray and been able to get to it he bear had the teen's hea

For bear spray to be effective, you have to have it at the ready... and therefore in these three worst cases, the bear spray

GSMNP has one of the highest concentrations of bears anywhere along the AT, and in the last 25 years, there are only three major bear attacks that have occured in
Been camping in GSMNP for 25 years. In that time, the only serious bear attacks that have occurred are the three already listed above (the woman that was killed, the teenager pulled from a hammock, and the thru hiker attacked thru his tent).

Add to that, bear spray is only going to be useful if you have it ready

[MuddyWaters]

Cars kill around 40,000 Americans per year. Black bears kill around 0.5 Americans per year.

Seat belts save lives.

300 million people
1 hr per day avg in car

Each day you drive or ride in car, your chance of dieing is 3.6e-07

Statistically, zero chance. You might die once in 10000 yrs when you use car daily

Not that different from bear spray

If 300 million people spent an hr per day in bear areas thered be a few more incidents.


Point is...al you can say is odds are...you wont need it
You cannot tell someone that they wont

People drawing on their own history /experience are drawing from laughably small data pool as well.

Ive never been threatened by bear, and ive been 10 ft from one. But im smart enough to recognize it could happen, and does, with certain statistical frequency.

Im willing to take chance. Not everyone is.

[Uncle Joe]

It has been stated many times before in White Blazes "we pack our fears" (or words to that effect).

That said, IMHO based on 25 years of experience backpacking in GSMNP, there is no practical reason for an AT thru hiker (or a GSMNP hiker) to carry bear spray to protect themselves from bears.

I know the statistics and the odds are extremely low. But I can't "un-hear" what I've heard.

[Lnj]

Just drawing from the information above... I am gathering that black bears are prone to the "sneak" attack, as all 3 instances listed above were people who were asleep or appeared to be. We have also heard that conversation is a bear deterrent. So.... Here's a thought/question.... those 3 bad attacks that happened to the sleepers, I wonder if they snored at all or very loud. Could it be a very loud snorer would cause a bear to keep moving instead of investigating? I am more interested in finding out what can be done to prevent the visit to start with than the spray or whatever what to do when/if the visit happens. I would love to see a bear from a far on a hike, but not on a sleep or in my camp! Maybe if camping relatively alone from other strangers, one could play a radio very softly overnight, possibly a talk radio station? If we could just figure out how to keep them away at night and/or while we sleep, it seems we will have cured the sneaky bear attack issue.

[MuddyWaters]

Just drawing from the information above... I am gathering that black bears are prone to the "sneak" attack, as all 3 instances listed above were people who were asleep or appeared to be. We have also heard that conversation is a bear deterrent. So.... Here's a thought/question.... those 3 bad attacks that happened to the sleepers, I wonder if they snored at all or very loud. Could it be a very loud snorer would cause a bear to keep moving instead of investigating? I am more interested in finding out what can be done to prevent the visit to start with than the spray or whatever what to do when/if the visit happens. I would love to see a bear from a far on a hike, but not on a sleep or in my camp! Maybe if camping relatively alone from other strangers, one could play a radio very softly overnight, possibly a talk radio station? If we could just figure out how to keep them away at night and/or while we sleep, it seems we will have cured the sneaky bear attack issue.

The teacher killed and eaten in 2000 in gsmnp wasnt sleeping, she was hiking. Killed by sow with yearling.

Theres many reports of scary encounters on trail in gsmnp, with people being pursued or approached by bears, etc. You just dont hear of them, cause not on AT or not post here. Fortunately most end well for all involved.

[scope]

Folks have been hiking the AT and other trails for a long time with almost no issue whatsoever with regard to bears. However, I have to admit to hearing of several black bear attacks in the last several years, and now a confirmed issue on the AT, where a large portion of them involved serious injury if not fatal. In the past, it had mostly been at campgrounds, where rogue bears would venture out to, not remote trails where the bears were typically more skittish of humans. Recent activity begs the question then... is the AT becoming a campground? I mean, populated to the point where egregious errors with food are so commonplace that the trail itself, by proximity to the bear population, is turning more of them into rogue bears?

p.s. talking about the eastern US which is a totally different discussion than the west, but perhaps we might start taking cues from those out west.