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Thread: Bear spray.

  1. #81
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    IMHO this is just a case of gross mismanagement by the park services. Black bear population in the GSMNP and New Jersey is way over the healthy carrying capacity and increasing yearly. Bears are adaptive apex predators, when they are hungry they will find food. Sick and old bears that are starving will do "abnormal" things like attempt to prey on hikers if they are hungry enough. Until they allow hunting to maintain a healthy population level this problem will continue to get worse. Being in the wilderness isn't risk free and you have to make informed decisions about what risks to take and how to mitigate them. If 8 oz helps you get a good night sleep then I say it's worth the weight but understand that it's not some sort of magic shield that will protect you from bears. You have to be able to deploy it successfully and it doesn't always work. There are plenty of examples of bears being scared away by spray and coming back later to try again. I don't think it's worth carrying myself.

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayne View Post
    So you're saying we should carry spray and a gun like the park rangers?
    No need to segue into a gun thread here.

    The risk for park rangers is much different because they are called to problem situations. They have an aggregate risk stemming from every visitors chance of contact and subsequent call. Similarly, unless you have some kind of heart implant, I doubt anyone carries an AED. It'll be on the ambulance a hiker is transported in though perhaps even available sooner depending on the situation.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by perdidochas View Post
    Bear spray actually has less concentration of OC (the active ingredient) than does either civilian or law enforcement pepper sprays. Bears (and dogs) are more sensitive to the pepper spray than humans are. The main difference is sheer amounts of the spray and the range--bear spray typically produces a cloud of pepper fog at about 30 feet. I wouldn't trust the small spray for bears--the small spray has a range of 10-15 feet at most. That said, I wouldn't worry about bear spray in the Appalachians, your views may vary.
    I beg to differ, in part.

    According to one manufacturer, it's not the OC but the % of major capsaicinoids that matter.
    https://www.sabrered.com/formulation...rength-and-law
    my personal pepper spray is 1.33%; my bear spray - made by a different manufacturer - is 2.0%.

    So if it's true that major capsaicinoids are the true measure, then the bear spray is stronger, and as you note, more voluminous, and with greater range.

    Another point, sometimes made, but often overlooked - "fatality by bear" is not the only risk that bear-spray carrying hikers seek to reduce. If it was, I'd more readily leave bear spray at home when hiking in bear country. But it's not the only concern. "Injury by bear" is another. Reducing risk of fatality or injury at the hands of other dangerous animals might be an unintended side benefit too.

    Plus it looks cool in a holster.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayne View Post
    IMHO this is just a case of gross mismanagement by the park services. Black bear population in the GSMNP and New Jersey is way over the healthy carrying capacity and increasing yearly. Bears are adaptive apex predators, when they are hungry they will find food. Sick and old bears that are starving will do "abnormal" things like attempt to prey on hikers if they are hungry enough. Until they allow hunting to maintain a healthy population level this problem will continue to get worse. Being in the wilderness isn't risk free and you have to make informed decisions about what risks to take and how to mitigate them. If 8 oz helps you get a good night sleep then I say it's worth the weight but understand that it's not some sort of magic shield that will protect you from bears. You have to be able to deploy it successfully and it doesn't always work. There are plenty of examples of bears being scared away by spray and coming back later to try again. I don't think it's worth carrying myself.
    its not the bears that are over capacity, its the people in their home.
    We need to reduce people.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    its not the bears that are over capacity, its the people in their home.
    We need to reduce people.
    Bear population in GSMNP is 1500-1600 bears according to the park website, or a density of 2 bears per square mile. When there is not enough natural food sources to support the population density the bears they either starve to death or look for other alternatives. This is why bear attacks are more common in the spring / early summer (May and June being the most common months) - the bears are hungry and the fall food sources haven't started producing yet. Fewer people doesn't create more food for the bears.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayne View Post
    Bear population in GSMNP is 1500-1600 bears according to the park website, or a density of 2 bears per square mile. When there is not enough natural food sources to support the population density the bears they either starve to death or look for other alternatives. This is why bear attacks are more common in the spring / early summer (May and June being the most common months) - the bears are hungry and the fall food sources haven't started producing yet. Fewer people doesn't create more food for the bears.
    While it may seem that what you are saying is true, there are numerous times when hikers run across a berry bush or wild strawberries and start stuffing their mouths and their bags with the bounty. What they fail to realize is this is the exact food that the bears live on. Too many people think all bears live on meat by killing other animals. another case of failing to educate ones self. Also you half to remember we are not hiking our trail, we are walking through their home.
    Blackheart

  7. #87

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    Average number of serious injuries in the park Great Smoky Mountains National Park each year:
    Motor vehicle accidents - 50
    Walking or hiking accidents - 38
    Bicycle accidents - 16
    Falls from waterfalls - 9
    Horse related - 7
    Tubing related - 5
    Bee Sting reaction - 4

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by scope View Post
    I guess I'm pretty stupid, too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDPlkAWI1jI
    You said it, not me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Ive been driving a car a few hrs per day for 35 yrs.
    Never needed a seatbelt.

    Still wear it
    Haha! Good point.

    When you are the one that was ejected through the windshield or attacked by the bear your perspective may be very different. Regardless of the stats.

    I don't carry spray but I would consider it in NJ and GSMNP.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayne View Post
    So you're saying we should carry spray and a gun like the park rangers?
    If you have a firearm permit and bear spray is legal in your state, and you feel you need them to mitigate real or perceived risks, go for it.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore View Post
    You said it, not me...
    Which, of course, IS a manner of saying it, so thank you for that.

    Given what I now know, I would carry bear spray - for sure in the Smokies if not anywhere on the AT or any other bear territory trail. So, if I had bear spray on this trip, you know what would've changed about the video? Nothing. I fail to understand why making the video makes me stupid, or for that matter, why the other boys in the selfie pic were stupid. Because they were doing something other than running (i.e. showing fear)?
    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

  12. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by scope View Post
    Which, of course, IS a manner of saying it, so thank you for that.
    Given what I now know, I would carry bear spray - for sure in the Smokies if not anywhere on the AT or any other bear territory trail. So, if I had bear spray on this trip, you know what would've changed about the video? Nothing. I fail to understand why making the video makes me stupid, or for that matter, why the other boys in the selfie pic were stupid. Because they were doing something other than running (i.e. showing fear)?
    I don't know why at 53 years old you need to come to an anonymous board to seek affirmation from strangers to carry bear spray. Will you need it? - probably not. If park police in NJ (where possession is illegal) catch you with it will there be an issue? - depends on the officer. Bottom line is that you need to do what puts you in your comfort zone - and don't worry about what others think. If having it reduces anxiety and makes for a more enjoyable experience, that in and of itself is a reason to bring it - and there is nothing wrong with that decision.

  13. #93

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    Two black bears per square mile is an interesting number. There's about 70 miles of the AT in GSMNP. Each person completing the park therefore passes through on average, the habitat of 140 bears. The low end of the average life span for a black bear is 10 years but they can live up to 30 years. Another rough estimate then is that ~90% are 1+ years. Adults big enough to eat you. Bears are faster than people with a great sense of smell too. Although not real hard to catch wind of stinky hikers. Hikers are literally walking through a hungry bears den every step of the way. Plus the other millions of park users annually are similarly at risk. Yet what, is it 2 deaths total from bear attacks?

    I only saw one of those 140 bears I was passing near. I looked up to see why a stick or nut had fallen from a tree about 15 or so feet away. A black bear was sliding down the tree like a firefighter. I ran for my life. When I looked back at the bear...it was running for its life too...the other way.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
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  14. #94
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    Yet what, is it 2 deaths total from bear attacks?


    one in the park............one outside the park in the cherokee national forest.........


    When I looked back at the bear...it was running for its life too...the other way.


    the bears that are not familiar with humans-----they will run (generally) before they see or smell ya......

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore View Post
    I don't know why at 53 years old you need to come to an anonymous board to seek affirmation from strangers to carry bear spray. Will you need it? - probably not. If park police in NJ (where possession is illegal) catch you with it will there be an issue? - depends on the officer. Bottom line is that you need to do what puts you in your comfort zone - and don't worry about what others think. If having it reduces anxiety and makes for a more enjoyable experience, that in and of itself is a reason to bring it - and there is nothing wrong with that decision.
    I get the impression that you don't listen very well.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

  16. #96
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    Now for a bit of levity.

    IMG_8843.JPG
    Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alligator View Post
    I only saw one of those 140 bears I was passing near. I looked up to see why a stick or nut had fallen from a tree about 15 or so feet away. A black bear was sliding down the tree like a firefighter. I ran for my life. When I looked back at the bear...it was running for its life too...the other way.
    Running away from a bear is a very bad idea. First, bears can run at 35mph for a short time, they can easily catch you. Second, if you're running they may see you as prey.
    Handlebar
    GA-ME 06; PCT 08; CDT 10,11,12; ALT 11; MSPA 12; CT 13; Sheltowee 14; AZT 14, 15; LT 15;FT 16;NCT-NY&PA 16; GET 17-18

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore View Post
    If you have a firearm permit and bear spray is legal in your state, and you feel you need them to mitigate real or perceived risks, go for it.
    I don't carry either while hiking. The odds of it being helpful seem pretty remote to me. I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of our government officials.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm the elf View Post
    Now for a bit of levity.

    IMG_8843.JPG
    Needed that LOL, thx!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

  20. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by handlebar View Post
    Running away from a bear is a very bad idea. First, bears can run at 35mph for a short time, they can easily catch you. Second, if you're running they may see you as prey.
    Yeah ok thanks I already knew that. It was all over in about three seconds. I had gotten used to occasional buckeye nuts dropping but either a branch fell or a nut hit a branch on the ground. It was slightly off in the pattern so to speak and as I was continuing forward, I looked up to see the bear coming down the trunk. About 15 feet away. Yes you are not supposed to run but the brain will activate a lot of your more basic neurons and your feet are going to be moving before some of the higher brain areas process anything. It went something like THuD "Why is that stick moving on the ground did it fall ..." looks up "WFT is that..." feet moving rapidly " thing...sliding? down the tree oh it's a bear..." brain begins processing "..about 100 lbs probably a yearling" slowing down, looking back "or a small female". Stopping. Call out to hiking partner who was trailing that I had just seen a bear and to be alert. I've been bears other times and just stopped to look at them.

    I almost stepped on a rattlesnake once. It was around dusk, I was thinking I was close to my ending point so I didn't have my headlamp out. Snake was crossing the trail. I jumped back and was about 15-20 feet away before my brain processed that my foot had been in the air moving towards stepping on the snake when it rattled. Instant response.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
    Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan

    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

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