Bear spray.

[Ethesis]

"no need to cherry pick, there aren't that many instances" Focusing on those incredibly rare, once-in-millions-of-lifetimes events is the very definition of cherry picking.

Most people would agree that it is good to not be afraid of flying. Some would argue that 100% of fatal plane crashes don't end well, so the fear is justified, but flying is still "safe." And flying is dramatically more dangerous than black bears on the A.T.

"But isn't all this flexing just a look at me I'm not afraid of bears?" No, it's not. All of us have an irrational level of fear of something. I want to ease people's fear of bears. I think that's a good thing.

nicely said.

The spray is rather light. Of everyone at the shelter with me this morning, only my wife has it clipped to her pack.

Ive got some in my medical kit.

[Ethesis]

BTW Tom Floyd Wayside is nice. Two of the others here claim to snore.

All I can say is the rain and the birds are a lot louder.

[Offshore]

And then there's this: https://www.reddit.com/r/hiking/comm...ph&sh=5bd7f6d0
A ohoto of three dopes taking a selfie with their backs to and standing below a bear who they had spooked up onto a ledge. (and the post is getting upvoted on Reddit by more idiots). It's probably a similar picture to the selfies found on the phone belonging to the college kid killed by a bear in the Apshawa Preserve in NJ a couple of years ago. (Somehow I don't think they were used in a memorial photo montage at the funeral home...)

[speedbump]

Prob not, but I carry it anyway. Get lots of comments from other hikers. Don't really care, it is not only for bears. If you feel safer with it, that is your choice.

[Colter]

And then there's this: https://www.reddit.com/r/hiking/comm...ph&sh=5bd7f6d0
A ohoto of three dopes taking a selfie with their backs to and standing below a bear who they had spooked up onto a ledge. (and the post is getting upvoted on Reddit by more idiots). It's probably a similar picture to the selfies found on the phone belonging to the college kid killed by a bear in the Apshawa Preserve in NJ a couple of years ago. (Somehow I don't think they were used in a memorial photo montage at the funeral home...)

Of course you are right in that as a rule of thumb taking a selfie with a bear is unwise.

In this case I don't think taking the photo was a significant risk.

• They came upon the bear by chance.
• It immediately fled.
• It's a significant distance away.
• There's no indication the people approached any closer.
• The bear is up high, where it feels safe. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a million or more photos of bears in trees taken from much closer range.
• The humans appear non-threatening.

The Apshawa Preserve incident is literally one of those [far less than] one in a million cases. The bear approached the preceding group, and then THEM. And they took the photos in the midst of retreating. What they did wrong, and it's hard to blame them, is to run. Splitting up made it worse.

What really made this situation different is a crazy bear, and they are extremely rare, much rarer than homicidal people. As I mentioned above, humans are about 10 time as dangerous as bears on a PER CAPITA basis.

Prob not, but I carry it anyway. Get lots of comments from other hikers. Don't really care, it is not only for bears. If you feel safer with it, that is your choice.

No doubt.

[Harmless]

This is my favorite line: "If someone needs bear spray on the A.T. to sleep at night, Id' say to carry it."

I was personally harassed by a pair of bears from about 10 PM until dawn, while solo camping in the Smokies many years ago. All night long, they'd creep closer until they were about 10' away. I'd turn on my penlight, throw a rock, yell, and they'd back off to about 20'. You could argue that I didn't get hurt and I should find this comforting. It was almost 40 years ago. Still today, if I hear just the wrong sound at night, my pulse goes up to about 200 BPM. (Call it PBST - Post Bear Stress Disorder.)

I simply can't hike/camp in the Smokies without carrying bear spray. I can barely hike solo in the Smokies *with* it. So yeah, objectively, you probably don't need bear spray. It's all subjective. If you think you'll have a better hike with it -- carry it. The day it ceases to enhance your trip, dispose of it responsibly.

[Offshore]

The Apshawa Preserve incident is literally one of those [far less than] one in a million cases. The bear approached the preceding group, and then THEM. And they took the photos in the midst of retreating. What they did wrong, and it's hard to blame them, is to run. Splitting up made it worse.

Actually, they did approach the bear. They continued on the trail even after being warned by another group of hikers that there was a bear ahead that followed them and was acting aggressively. That's where the stupidity started.

[rickb]

The most disconcerting bear encounter I recall hearing about on the AT was the one related by Peachpeak, because he was a thruhiker who seemed to be doing everything right.

He shared some of his experience directly with Whiteblaze here (beginning with post 114):

https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthr...WBIR-com/page6

While the risk from bears on the AT is super small, I think the reality is that a great many solo hikers feel uncomfortable camping far away from others-- to the point they simply don't due it much at all.

Would you all agree with that, or is my observation dated and colored by what I see among weekenders in the Whites?

If I am right, a canister of bear spray at hand in one's tent at night could offer enough psychological comfort to open up more camping possibilities. Which would make it a very worthwhile thing to have.

A light weight canister of law enforcement quality OC Pepper Spray might be enough for that purpose, too.

[Uncle Joe]

Bottom line is if you feel you should carry it, carry it. Don't let anyone on WB talk you either into or out of carrying bear spray in bear country.

[BuckeyeBill]

To Rickb:

The type of pepper spray use by law enforcement discharges as a stream with an effective range of 10-12 feet. The only mace you see used by police officers that is a spray/cloud is the same strength, but the canister is much larger i.e. riot size canister. Bear spray can be carried, but is limited to 7.9 oz. I agree that the psychological aspect may offer comfort to those who choose to carry it.

[scope]

Actually, they did approach the bear. They continued on the trail even after being warned by another group of hikers that there was a bear ahead that followed them and was acting aggressively. That's where the stupidity started.

I guess I'm pretty stupid, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDPlkAWI1jI

[Francis Sawyer]

Cars don't kill people. People kill people.

[Francis Sawyer]

Ummm that last one was supposed to come with the quote from sarcasm the elf but blew it.

[rocketsocks]

Bottom line is if you feel you should carry it, carry it. Don't let anyone on WB talk you either into or out of carrying bear spray in bear country.

This ^^^^^^^

[Colter]

The most disconcerting bear encounter I recall hearing about on the AT was the one related by Peachpeak, because he was a thruhiker who seemed to be doing everything right...

Like the hiker in that bear attack, which is apparently the worst bear experience in decades of AT thru-hiker history, I was doing everything right but was attacked and mauled on my hike last summer. Like that hiker, I was bitten on the right calf but was walking soon thereafter. I still have those scars on my leg today: four canine tooth marks.

Unlike him, I was bitten by a dog. If it had been a bear, it would have been reported across all the hiking forums and almost certainly have made the news across multiple outlets. People would say I was lucky to be alive. Dogs kill about 20 times more people than bears in the U.S., and maul a thousand times as many, at least. The difference is in perception, not risk.

If I am right, a canister of bear spray at hand in one's tent at night could offer enough psychological comfort to open up more camping possibilities. Which would make it a very worthwhile thing to have...

I think you are right. No one needs anyone's permission to carry bear spray on the A.T. if it makes them feel better.

[rickb]

Like the hiker in that bear attack, which is apparently the worst bear experience in decades of AT thru-hiker history...

Or the best, depending on your perspective:

https://peachpeak.wordpress.com

I respect how Peachpeak handled the situation -- actually, admire might be a better word. How cool for him to know just a bit more about what he is made of.

[MuddyWaters]

Bottom line is if you feel you should carry it, carry it. Don't let anyone on WB talk you either into or out of carrying bear spray in bear country.

Yes

But if you havent gone looking for facts, some wont offer them to you.

[Alligator]

...
While the risk from bears on the AT is super small, I think the reality is that a great many solo hikers feel uncomfortable camping far away from others-- to the point they simply don't due it much at all.

Would you all agree with that, or is my observation dated and colored by what I see among weekenders in the Whites?

If I am right, a canister of bear spray at hand in one's tent at night could offer enough psychological comfort to open up more camping possibilities. Which would make it a very worthwhile thing to have.

A light weight canister of law enforcement quality OC Pepper Spray might be enough for that purpose, too.

I much prefer to not have other hikers around when solo hiking.

The Whites are very busy on weekends yes? Campsites also have restrictions? That you observe solo hikers camping near others does not suggest to me that they are uncomfortable being alone.

I have seen 6 or 7 bears on the AT on three occasions. Two of those were a mother with cub(s). I don't carry bear spray on the AT.

[perdidochas]

The most disconcerting bear encounter I recall hearing about on the AT was the one related by Peachpeak, because he was a thruhiker who seemed to be doing everything right.

He shared some of his experience directly with Whiteblaze here (beginning with post 114):

https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthr...WBIR-com/page6

While the risk from bears on the AT is super small, I think the reality is that a great many solo hikers feel uncomfortable camping far away from others-- to the point they simply don't due it much at all.

Would you all agree with that, or is my observation dated and colored by what I see among weekenders in the Whites?

If I am right, a canister of bear spray at hand in one's tent at night could offer enough psychological comfort to open up more camping possibilities. Which would make it a very worthwhile thing to have.

A light weight canister of law enforcement quality OC Pepper Spray might be enough for that purpose, too.

Bear spray actually has less concentration of OC (the active ingredient) than does either civilian or law enforcement pepper sprays. Bears (and dogs) are more sensitive to the pepper spray than humans are. The main difference is sheer amounts of the spray and the range--bear spray typically produces a cloud of pepper fog at about 30 feet. I wouldn't trust the small spray for bears--the small spray has a range of 10-15 feet at most. That said, I wouldn't worry about bear spray in the Appalachians, your views may vary.

[Jayne]

I'm a geologist who's worked in the NE (Maine to NJ) for 33 years and neither had a issue myself nor heard of an issue among the the professional community in that time. (Lots of Lyme, but no bears...) Almost without exception, the bear issues reported have been associated with recreational users who did not bother to learn or refused to observe "bear safe" behaviors.



My advice to people wondering about bear safety is to ignore every bit of advice you find in a forum like this and look to the experts in your local area - park managers, rangers, etc. Sites like this are really just opinion sites that are heavy on anecdotal information and ideology. Looking at this site, one one hand you have the self-recognized experts who pontificate how its just fine to sleep with your food in bear territory, while on the the hand, are the risk assessment "pros" who are clutching their pearls in fear. Hiking and backpacking are not without risks, so go to recognized, verifiable, and credible sources for your data needed to mitigate the risks to point acceptable to you. If bear spray makes you feel better, take it (but be aware of the limitations). If you can't mitigate the risk, then stay home.

So you're saying we should carry spray and a gun like the park rangers?