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  1. #21
    Registered User BuckeyeBill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareBear View Post
    His 2016 FKT is an absolute FKT. It was a scorching time that will be tough to beat this year. He also did a thru in 2007 or 8. That time is the FOURTH fastest EVER for the AT. Thus, He holds the record AND the fourth fastest time. Making him the Fastest and the Fourth Fastest TIME/MAN/WOMAN/MUTANT in AT thru history. Sorry you don't get that....to have been any clearer I would have needed to filter the statement through a Sawyer for ya....
    OK I am glad you could clear that up for me. As for everything else......... oh just forget it.
    Blackheart

  2. #22

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    Respect Speed Goat very much. Much more impressed by Anish's unsupported accomplishment.
    Teej

    "[ATers] represent three percent of our use and about twenty percent of our effort," retired Baxter Park Director Jensen Bissell.

  3. #23
    Registered User soilman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareBear View Post
    I expect Speedgoat's next feat will be the penultimate. Something that not only will nobody ever beat, nobody will likely ever try. A NOBO/SOBO continuous thru. 2190 Springer to K. Have a sip of non-alcoholic champagne. Turn around and do the 2190 back to Springer. Do it in under 90 days. My money is that you may get to see this insanity this year. He is in prime shape. If not this year, he WILL try it. It is the last thing to do. I've already got the catchphrase....."Both Ways in 90 Days(tm)"
    If this is the last thing to do it won't be the penultimate.
    More walking, less talking.

  4. #24

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    I liked Karl's comments not recognizing any massive narcissism. It often takes a healthy ego to be a champion.

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_rob View Post
    First time I've ever heard KM called a "narcissist". Ridiculous. Cool little article, I love his "chase the calories" nutrition comments, must make the nutrition-fascists on here crazy!
    In relation to his on trail dietary approach I found confusing and contradictory statements but first...that's aimed at me so for the umpteenth time calories ARE BUT ONE ASPECT of nutrition but not ALL there is to nutrition, being energized, and well being! Food does not JUST equal calories! Food consumption has consequences far beyond just offering energy! Food is a significant aspect of HEALTH. *Being energized AND HEALTHY could be (SHOULD BE!) the goal? Every M.D. says that. I think that was asking a question not a tyrannical, authoritarian, fascists statement of what everyone HAS TO DO? If you have a different opinion about food I suggest you take it up with science and Karl Meltzer calling them fascists.


    He contradicts himself several times regarding his food consumption. “I just wanted the calories; I didn’t care where they were coming from", he says in one sentence, and then says:

    "I do like to train my body to fuel off of fat
    ,... This helps during race day for more efficiency running on fats instead of always sugar.
    OR, I don’t like to eat any processed foods if I can avoid it.”
    OR
    , "
    I could live on ice cream too, but I get that it’s not necessarily the best food”
    OR, "I
    never eat donuts at home, but there are a massive amount of calories in a donut, and that pushes you forward. I wanted to do it on real food, so I finished my last gel on the third day"
    OR, "
    Bacon! Favorite brand is Vermont Smoke and Cure. They make a bacon with low sodium and all natural, no preservatives, so for bacon, it’s pretty healthy"

    That is caring about where you're calories come from! Karl wants it both ways. I believe in his heart and mind he knows food is more than energy, wanting to be and eat healthy, but is still working that out both on and off trail. Aren't WE all?

    Further, Karl answers:

    Your diet on the trek, was, well, unusual, especially compared
    Yeah, Scott lost 19 pounds when he set the record last year. He’s vegan, so he’s not taking in as much fat as the rest of us. And I think with long adventure things like this, your body needs fat. And yeah, sure, I realize it sounds horrible to say I was eating bacon and sausage and fried chicken, but it’s not like I eat those things normally, or regularly. At home, I actually have a pretty good diet. But when you’re out there, the body wants fat, it wants fuel.

    Glaring misconception by Karl is equating Veganism with a low fat diet regardless of what Jurek consumed, Jukek's individual metabolism, energy and other nutritional needs, and within in the individual conditions of Jukek's thru-hike/run. I'm not a Vegan but I've witnessed more than a dozen and a half LD hikers who simply amend their VEGAN or VEGETARIAN diets to get more fat. AND, it didn't have to come from animal fat products. While burning fat as fuel can be great, once one gets their body into that situation, the fat doesn't have to be animal fat or hydrogenated/trans fat sourced. Fat is NOT the only thing that is fuel or that can solely be used for fuel! If one will question this on your next weekend or week long hike bring JUST a tub of butter or Crisco seeing how that works out for you as your only "fuel" source and if food is not more than calories and fuel!

    He also states he ate more meat to get more protein. Maybe Karl is just stating his source option of protein OR perhaps he's basing it on the mistaken assumption that Vegans or vegetarians have a problem getting protein. This is a mistaken assumption by many, despite it being covered umpteen times this does not have to be the case. It's also used to defend carnivore and omnivore dietary approaches which is what's being done using Karl's inconsistent and confusing statements about his diet.

    Karl even implicitly states his trail diet isn't necessarily a pretty good diet since it's not his usual "pretty good at home diet."

    "I am not the healthiest eater while on the trail. I eat a lot of vegetables at home, and we make a lot of our own meals."

    "I want that cheeseburger or a nasty hot dog off the rack at a 7Eleven. I am going to feel bad about eating that in three days..." HMM , sounds like Karl realizes here that food/food like product consumption has greater consequences than just fuel?

    It's obvious Karl sure is considering to some degree on one hand the context in which he consumes calories and on the other hand, SOMETIMES HE'S NOT, so lets not pretend he's not sometimes concerned with the source of his food calories in that...

    a calorie can magically be the only thing a food is!!!

  5. #25

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    I liked most of what he said.
    Especially about the phones.

  6. #26
    Registered User BuckeyeBill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    I liked most of what he said.
    Especially about the phones.
    Ditto on what he said.
    Blackheart

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareBear View Post
    I've been preaching a lot of what the Speedgoat's is saying about training for a thru....just sayin....

    The thing I took away from the article is that if you want to do a thru on Hoka's, you will need about $3000. He got about 100 miles per pair. Yikes. I get that they are comfortable, but....100 miles? Really? Can I get a sponsorship? A gofundme for shoes? ...
    Well, you just said the reason why he goes through so many shoes. He is sponsored! Not because there's something wrong with the shoe as far as reasonable durability! Karl has been sponsored by HOKA One One since about 08. He's paid to look good in HOKA's and for his HOKA's to look good on him. He's an elite ultra runner probably well able to get as many pairs of HOKA as he reasonably asks for. Why wouldn't he get a new pr of HOKA's every 100 miles when he doesn't have to buy them retail? I wouldn't compare his ability to go through that many pairs of HOKA's, just because he can, with HOKA durability of our own.

    I've gone through three pairs of HOKA Challenger ATR 2 Trail Runners all used for trail running. The third pair I have now I've used, and still use, for backpacking and trail running. I just did 170 mile and 210 mile hikes in this pr and have run in this same pr guesstimating 400+ miles which are still good to go. I got at least 300 miles each on the first two pr and I'm really anal about footwear cush so I could have ran or definitely hiked in either of those first two pr longer if I wasn't as footwear anal. I gave one pr up to mowing the lawn in when I really didn't have to. I paid $110 for the first pr since I bought that pair when they first were offered. Second pair was $75. Last pair was $58. Even IF only used each pr for 100 miles, which is ridiculous if it was true that's all folks got out of a pair of trail runners, it still would be a gross exaggeration to say I would have spent $3000 on HOKA's on an AT thru-hike.

    I'm currently on my second pr of HOKA Clifton 2 Road Running shoes which I use both for running on roads and maintained trail hiking. Easily, I got 400+ combined miles on my first pr purchased for, if I'm recalling correctly, about $100-110. My second pr were $60.

    Either way no way would I have spent $3000 on HOKA's for an AT thru-hike.

    It's easy enough to extend the life of trail runners used for hiking/backpacking when you don't pound down the trail, use a lighter kit, and exchange stock footbeds for more cushioned supportive ones as the shoes age.

    Remember, Karl runs. He was supported on this latest attempt. Backpackers/hikers tend to walk. Walkers tend to get greater use from their trail runners than runners using the same shoe.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    What a jackass thing to say on your 4th post, little man. Did you even bother to read the short article or watch the video? Name one single sentence that he said that could be remotely interpreted as narcissistic. Here are the few that I got:
    "The crew is the most important thing -- I'm 20%, they're 80%."
    "The most precious thing was getting to spend 46 days with my dad."
    "The record holder helped me out -- how great is that?"
    "I'm 49 years old -- what if I failed again?"
    His dad asked him, "Are you as tough as Jurek?" His reply, "I don't think so."
    "I gave up in 2014."

    Name one thing he said that was out of line, Birdman​.
    Get a grip.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey_birdman View Post
    Get a grip.
    why you so angry and mean?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Well, you just said the reason why he goes through so many shoes. He is sponsored! Not because there's something wrong with the shoe as far as reasonable durability! Karl has been sponsored by HOKA One One since about 08. He's paid to look good in HOKA's and for his HOKA's to look good on him. He's an elite ultra runner probably well able to get as many pairs of HOKA as he reasonably asks for. Why wouldn't he get a new pr of HOKA's every 100 miles when he doesn't have to buy them retail? I wouldn't compare his ability to go through that many pairs of HOKA's, just because he can, with HOKA durability of our own.

    I've gone through three pairs of HOKA Challenger ATR 2 Trail Runners all used for trail running. The third pair I have now I've used, and still use, for backpacking and trail running. I just did 170 mile and 210 mile hikes in this pr and have run in this same pr guesstimating 400+ miles which are still good to go. I got at least 300 miles each on the first two pr and I'm really anal about footwear cush so I could have ran or definitely hiked in either of those first two pr longer if I wasn't as footwear anal. I gave one pr up to mowing the lawn in when I really didn't have to. I paid $110 for the first pr since I bought that pair when they first were offered. Second pair was $75. Last pair was $58. Even IF only used each pr for 100 miles, which is ridiculous if it was true that's all folks got out of a pair of trail runners, it still would be a gross exaggeration to say I would have spent $3000 on HOKA's on an AT thru-hike.

    I'm currently on my second pr of HOKA Clifton 2 Road Running shoes which I use both for running on roads and maintained trail hiking. Easily, I got 400+ combined miles on my first pr purchased for, if I'm recalling correctly, about $100-110. My second pr were $60.

    Either way no way would I have spent $3000 on HOKA's for an AT thru-hike.

    It's easy enough to extend the life of trail runners used for hiking/backpacking when you don't pound down the trail, use a lighter kit, and exchange stock footbeds for more cushioned supportive ones as the shoes age.

    Remember, Karl runs. He was supported on this latest attempt. Backpackers/hikers tend to walk. Walkers tend to get greater use from their trail runners than runners using the same shoe.
    Good to know, since I just got my pair of Stinson 3 ATR's in the mail yesterday. $68 from runningwarehouse dot com. I am switching out of the AKU Teton's for the section I am currently on. We'll see how the Hoka thing goes.

    And, why is it that the REI peeps all looked at me funny when I asked them "Can I try on a pair of the HO-ka Onay Onay's?" Do peeps really say "Hookah One One's"?????

  11. #31
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Well, you just said the reason why he goes through so many shoes. He is sponsored! Not because there's something wrong with the shoe as far as reasonable durability! Karl has been sponsored by HOKA One One since about 08. He's paid to look good in HOKA's and for his HOKA's to look good on him. He's an elite ultra runner probably well able to get as many pairs of HOKA as he reasonably asks for. Why wouldn't he get a new pr of HOKA's every 100 miles when he doesn't have to buy them retail? I wouldn't compare his ability to go through that many pairs of HOKA's, just because he can, with HOKA durability of our own.
    .
    Yar- he said as much in another interview. He had them and was looking for every advantage he could get.

    There's nothing like that first 50-100 miles in any shoe when it's bright shiny and bouncy. I didn't sound like he wore through a single pair, he just wanted that feeling every day he could get it.

    Lotta runners cycle their shoes too. If you beat on the EVA for 16 hours, letting it rest and recover for 24-48 hours will let it bounce back and recover, ultimately lasting longer than if you put that same shoe on the next day and beat it again like a LD hiker does. It looked from a few photos like Karl/Belz employed a similar strategy and there are plenty of runners who swap shoes at each aid station on longer events for this reason as well. If you have the luxury to put 4-6 hours on a shoe and then swap it (even with just two pairs) they would feel better. I'd guess that at any given time he was probably using a good 4-8 pairs and cycling them through the day(s). For all we know he then dumped the whole batch every week and repeated.

    Otherwise DW had some good advice for thru's... though it's a rare shoe I think that's worth pushing past 500 miles. To me shoes are the most important piece of gear and not worth pushing too far given the punishment a LD hiker doles out on them even when treading light and easy on them. Just too many compression cycles per day with no rest/recovery to expect the midsoles to last- even if cosmetically or treadwise they are holding up.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey_birdman View Post
    Get a grip.
    You've made 5 posts, and 4 of them could be easily construed as trolling. Are you sure this is really where you should be, instead of out in the woods calming yourself down?

  13. #33

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    I think it is quite entertaining, or maybe the lack there of when people say negative things about a subject they have no interest in. If ya have no interest in it why did you click on the thread?
    Trail Miles: 4,927.6
    AT Map 1: Complete 2013-2021
    Sheltowee Trace: Complete 2020-2023
    Pinhoti Trail: Complete 2023-2024
    Foothills Trail: 0.0
    AT Map 2: 279.4
    BMT: 52.7
    CDT: 85.4

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Yar- he said as much in another interview. He had them and was looking for every advantage he could get.

    There's nothing like that first 50-100 miles in any shoe when it's bright shiny and bouncy. I didn't sound like he wore through a single pair, he just wanted that feeling every day he could get it.

    Lotta runners cycle their shoes too. If you beat on the EVA for 16 hours, letting it rest and recover for 24-48 hours will let it bounce back and recover, ultimately lasting longer than if you put that same shoe on the next day and beat it again like a LD hiker does. It looked from a few photos like Karl/Belz employed a similar strategy and there are plenty of runners who swap shoes at each aid station on longer events for this reason as well. If you have the luxury to put 4-6 hours on a shoe and then swap it (even with just two pairs) they would feel better. I'd guess that at any given time he was probably using a good 4-8 pairs and cycling them through the day(s). For all we know he then dumped the whole batch every week and repeated.

    Otherwise DW had some good advice for thru's... though it's a rare shoe I think that's worth pushing past 500 miles. To me shoes are the most important piece of gear and not worth pushing too far given the punishment a LD hiker doles out on them even when treading light and easy on them. Just too many compression cycles per day with no rest/recovery to expect the midsoles to last- even if cosmetically or treadwise they are holding up.
    Like a race car changing tires. Looking for optimal performance.
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    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareBear View Post
    Sorry, for the last snark. It may have been uncalled for. May, being the key phrase....

    Anyway, just in case anyone doubts the ultrarunner that the Speedgoat is, last year's scorching FKT on the AT was done at age.......







    48.


    The Speedgoat turns 50 this year. Can you imagine? 48 years old and the absolute FKT....
    So, you're says NG I still have a year to prep to break his record at the same age.

    No problem.

  16. #36
    Registered User John B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX Aggie View Post
    So, you're says NG I still have a year to prep to break his record at the same age.

    No problem.
    Go for the Badwater! You may be surprised to know that the majority of top-10 finishers are in their late 30s and 40s. In 2015, the 2nd place mens finisher was 50. The same year, Pam Reed (no shock there) missed 1st womens by about 30 seconds. She was 53.

    It seems that ultra running is more about a willingness to tolerate pain and exhaustion than necessarily about speed ("Yes, I will suffer, but I keep telling myself that they are suffering more!" Gabriel Flores, past Badwater winner). At least that's my theory.

    I think that Speedgoat developed a high tolerance for suffering from all of the ultras he's done. And when things got really tough for him in Virginia, I believe that he knew that was his last legit attempt. He said that his previous failures weighed heavily on his mind.

    As for Jenn Pharr Davis ("Odyssa"), since she's certainly wasn't old (I think she was early 30s when she broke the record), I have no explanation other than she's just freakishly gifted and has an iron-clad determination. She seems to be one of those rare people who can almost literally accomplish anything at all that she locks on and sets her mind to achieve.

  17. #37

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    Really bad title on that article. Should have been "Meltzner's approach to trail running".

    Little or no relevance to hiking a thru hike, except maybe the part about poor quality and out of control eating.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit McCrae View Post
    I think it is quite entertaining, or maybe the lack there of when people say negative things about a subject they have no interest in. If ya have no interest in it why did you click on the thread?
    This has always baffled me to no end.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit McCrae View Post
    I think it is quite entertaining, or maybe the lack there of when people say negative things about a subject they have no interest in. If ya have no interest in it why did you click on the thread?
    Perhaps their interest is negative, as in against it.

    What perplexes me , is why many here feel that any negative posts about some topics should be verbotten. It pc at its worst, everything and everyone, must be accepted and coddled. In doing such, education is lost.

    Any reasonable grownup can stand a difference of opinion. We have a whole generation now that cannot , as recently demonstrated. Thats what happens.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 04-27-2017 at 17:46.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPritch View Post
    I love amazing feats of human performance. They are inspiring. However, I'll never accept these FKT's as "thru-hikes". They are trail runs.
    If I could only trail run like that.... *sigh...

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