An LNT request for hangers

[windlion]

Great sunrise experience at McAfee Knob this Easter morning, save for one unfriendly exchange with a couple of hammock hikers wandering around the cliff area flashing full power headlamps into our dark-adapted eyes and eventually choosing a solitary pine sapling clinging to the rock edge as an anchor for both of their hammocks.

After a short chat about how much I wanted the tree not to be a broken stump the next time I came up with everyone else to welcome the sun, they agreed that the tree was sketchy for the top hammock. They relocated the cliffside end to a couple of 1 1/2 inch rhododendron bush stems, again at the cliff edge. Fine. HYOH.

But, a request. I understand that mountaineers sometime drive pitons into cliff rock to set their tents on a cliff edge, but there are a lot more hammock hangers, yes? Risking damage to fragile vegetation and blocking other hikers' view just is not good stewardship. Please -- don't?

They were using the old style narrow straps, too.

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[CaptainCoupal]

This is an interesting topic, and I think many of the hammock vendors have something to apologize for this too. Looking at many of their sites, they always show hammockers in "adventure hangs" instead of setup in a responsible way. How many shots are there of 20 hammockers in a ladder between 2 trees, or people hanging over the empty space between two cliffs?


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[Starchild]

You mention cliff hangers doing things ruins what a hiker would do. But LNT is not a single all purpose guideline but a set of guidelines per activity. Somethings against LNT guidelines for one activity is OK in another.


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[BuckeyeBill]

I would have set up as a bivy somewhere else instead of hooking to something that small. My minimum diameter is at least 6".

[Rain Man]

I suspect if they'd had tents, they would have been acting just as jerky?

[ocourse]

Great sunrise experience at McAfee Knob this Easter morning, save for one unfriendly exchange with a couple of hammock hikers wandering around the cliff area flashing full power headlamps into our dark-adapted eyes and eventually choosing a solitary pine sapling clinging to the rock edge as an anchor for both of their hammocks.

After a short chat about how much I wanted the tree not to be a broken stump the next time I came up with everyone else to welcome the sun, they agreed that the tree was sketchy for the top hammock. They relocated the cliffside end to a couple of 1 1/2 inch rhododendron bush stems, again at the cliff edge. Fine. HYOH.

But, a request. I understand that mountaineers sometime drive pitons into cliff rock to set their tents on a cliff edge, but there are a lot more hammock hangers, yes? Risking damage to fragile vegetation and blocking other hikers' view just is not good stewardship. Please -- don't?

They were using the old style narrow straps, too.

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This is like the letter to the editor asking that people stop littering from their cars. That type of person likely won't read the letter, and if they did, they wouldn't care or modify their behavior. I do agree with you and I certainly wouldn't hang in such a situation. But HYOH sums it up.

[johnspenn]

I hammock exclusively (so far) and totally agree with the OP on this. Just because you CAN get that "ultimate hang" at a great view or waterfall doesn't mean you SHOULD do it.

I really hate when some inconsiderate hammocker sets up right at the spot at a waterfall, or view location, that just totally blocks out everyone else from getting a great picture, or from enjoying the view themselves. Hammockers aren't the only offenders obviously, but they do tend to stand out.

Some of the other points already made are applicable as well. Blame the hype from the ENO's of the world and the like for their unrealistic advertising. The people who do things like that don't care about others' wilderness experience anyway. And etc.

Good job for at least speaking out against their bad and rude behavior. Maybe at least it will make them think about it next time.

[rocketsocks]

I hammock exclusively (so far) and totally agree with the OP on this. Just because you CAN get that "ultimate hang" at a great view or waterfall doesn't mean you SHOULD do it.

I really hate when some inconsiderate hammocker sets up right at the spot at a waterfall, or view location, that just totally blocks out everyone else from getting a great picture, or from enjoying the view themselves. Hammockers aren't the only offenders obviously, but they do tend to stand out.

Some of the other points already made are applicable as well. Blame the hype from the ENO's of the world and the like for their unrealistic advertising. The people who do things like that don't care about others' wilderness experience anyway. And etc.

Good job for at least speaking out against their bad and rude behavior. Maybe at least it will make them think about it next time.

Ome doesn't have to look far beyond the pages of magazine ads to understand why this is thought to be the way to nirvana and the norm...just sayn'

[Bronk]

You probably do at least 68 things that others do not agree with. HYOH.

[Tipi Walter]

You probably do at least 68 things that others do not agree with. HYOH.

But he's not talking about those 68 things, he's talking about hammockers with entitlement fever who demand to ruin a spot (and possibly a tree) with their drooling need to set up at the edge.

Adding "HYOH" is perfect proof of how the HYOH mantra can be misused. Examples?

Want to take a dump right in camp and leave it on the ground? Why not? HYOH.
Want to let your dog sleep with you in the shelter? HYOH.
Want to build a big bonfire and yell thru the night with your friends? Sure, why not? HYOH.
Want to bring a trombone and blast out tunes? Sure. HYOH.

HYOH is NOT an excuse for idiocy.

[johnspenn]

But he's not talking about those 68 things, he's talking about hammockers with entitlement fever who demand to ruin a spot (and possibly a tree) with their drooling need to set up at the edge.

Adding "HYOH" is perfect proof of how the HYOH mantra can be misused. Examples?

Want to take a dump right in camp and leave it on the ground? Why not? HYOH.
Want to let your dog sleep with you in the shelter? HYOH.
Want to build a big bonfire and yell thru the night with your friends? Sure, why not? HYOH.
Want to bring a trombone and blast out tunes? Sure. HYOH.

HYOH is NOT an excuse for idiocy.

What Tipi said FTW!!

[tflaris]

What Tipi said FTW!!

Yes. Well spoken.


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[ocourse]

But he's not talking about those 68 things, he's talking about hammockers with entitlement fever who demand to ruin a spot (and possibly a tree) with their drooling need to set up at the edge.

Adding "HYOH" is perfect proof of how the HYOH mantra can be misused. Examples?

Want to take a dump right in camp and leave it on the ground? Why not? HYOH.
Want to let your dog sleep with you in the shelter? HYOH.
Want to build a big bonfire and yell thru the night with your friends? Sure, why not? HYOH.
Want to bring a trombone and blast out tunes? Sure. HYOH.

HYOH is NOT an excuse for idiocy.

Tipi Walter, it's not that well-thoght out. People will do whatever they want to do, no matter what you or I would like them to do. HYOH means do your own thing and don't worry about others. Others are Hiking Their Own Hike regardless of laws or best trail practices sometimes. You can post here foever but you can't make people do as you like. Just please yourself and don't worry about others. I do agree with you, but you can't force compliance or thoughtfullness in others. That is reality.

[Zea]

Tipi Walter, it's not that well-thoght out. People will do whatever they want to do, no matter what you or I would like them to do. HYOH means do your own thing and don't worry about others. Others are Hiking Their Own Hike regardless of laws or best trail practices sometimes. You can post here foever but you can't make people do as you like. Just please yourself and don't worry about others. I do agree with you, but you can't force compliance or thoughtfullness in others. That is reality.

Many people will think twice though if they know what they are doing is wrong or that fellow hikers are angered by that sort of thing. If someone fairly new to backpacking never saw posts like these, they might think that the rules are just "guidelines" and aren't really a big deal. I always try to at least make mention of it when I see someone doing something that is genuinely destructive or out of line on the trail, trying to be as non-confrontational as possible. There are people out there who just don't yet know any better and may actually appreciate the knowledge. There are also those who will tell you in very flowery language just how much they care.

[BuckeyeBill]

But he's not talking about those 68 things, he's talking about hammockers with entitlement fever who demand to ruin a spot (and possibly a tree) with their drooling need to set up at the edge.

Adding "HYOH" is perfect proof of how the HYOH mantra can be misused. Examples?

Want to take a dump right in camp and leave it on the ground? Why not? HYOH.
Want to let your dog sleep with you in the shelter? HYOH.
Want to build a big bonfire and yell thru the night with your friends? Sure, why not? HYOH.
Want to bring a trombone and blast out tunes? Sure. HYOH.

HYOH is NOT an excuse for idiocy.

Tipi,

As always you are the voice of reason. I said it before and will repeat it here. Youth today have no work ethic, couldn't function without a smart phone in their hands and have a big sense of entitlement. I really wish Robert Redford never made that damn movie about the AT.

[Tipi Walter]

Tipi Walter, it's not that well-thoght out. People will do whatever they want to do, no matter what you or I would like them to do. HYOH means do your own thing and don't worry about others. Others are Hiking Their Own Hike regardless of laws or best trail practices sometimes. You can post here foever but you can't make people do as you like. Just please yourself and don't worry about others. I do agree with you, but you can't force compliance or thoughtfullness in others. That is reality.

When it comes to the outdoors, yes, you are right---people will do whatever they want to do. But there are two kinds of outdoorsmen---those who walk on two legs into "deep" areas far from roads; and those who skirt around the edges and stay close to their vehicles, i.e. rolling couch potatoes.

Point is, the closer a place is to road access the worst the human behavior---trash, turds, noise, alcohol abuse etc. But go deeper into rugged country and the idiots thin out as they just don't have the gumption to carry both themselves and their idiocy too far in.

I pull many---many--- backpacking trips in the Southeast mountains and never see a soul---either backpacker or dayhiker. You just have to know where to go and pick areas and trails which are off the map for most casual trekkers.

As to your final point---forcing compliance---well, Miss Nature has a wonderful way of forcing her compliance on countless idiots---especially in the winter. Go out in the worst weather (Miss Nature's Best) and you'll be certain to have it all to yourself. Therefore winter backpacking at 0F is always the best time to go backpacking and the best time to watch the Just Right folks scramble back to their indoor thermostats and significant udders.

Tipi,

Youth today have no work ethic, couldn't function without a smart phone in their hands and have a big sense of entitlement. I really wish Robert Redford never made that damn movie about the AT.

Avoiding the AT is an excellent way to avoid these smart phone lemmings and their ilk. When I pull AT trips I always try to camp a mile before or a mile after a trail shelter. 90% of all retardants can be avoided this way.

[rocketsocks]

When it comes to the outdoors, yes, you are right---people will do whatever they want to do. But there are two kinds of outdoorsmen---those who walk on two legs into "deep" areas far from roads; and those who skirt around the edges and stay close to their vehicles, i.e. rolling couch potatoes.

Point is, the closer a place is to road access the worst the human behavior---trash, turds, noise, alcohol abuse etc. But go deeper into rugged country and the idiots thin out as they just don't have the gumption to carry both themselves and their idiocy too far in.

I pull many---many--- backpacking trips in the Southeast mountains and never see a soul---either backpacker or dayhiker. You just have to know where to go and pick areas and trails which are off the map for most casual trekkers.

As to your final point---forcing compliance---well, Miss Nature has a wonderful way of forcing her compliance on countless idiots---especially in the winter. Go out in the worst weather (Miss Nature's Best) and you'll be certain to have it all to yourself. Therefore winter backpacking at 0F is always the best time to go backpacking and the best time to watch the Just Right folks scramble back to their indoor thermostats and significant udders.



Avoiding the AT is an excellent way to avoid these smart phone lemmings and their ilk. When I pull AT trips I always try to camp a mile before or a mile after a trail shelter. 90% of all retardants can be avoided this way.

significant udders...Brilliance!

[AllDownhillFromHere]

Hear hear. 9/10 when someone drops HYOH it's an excuse for being a douchebag.

But he's not talking about those 68 things, he's talking about hammockers with entitlement fever who demand to ruin a spot (and possibly a tree) with their drooling need to set up at the edge.

Adding "HYOH" is perfect proof of how the HYOH mantra can be misused. Examples?

Want to take a dump right in camp and leave it on the ground? Why not? HYOH.
Want to let your dog sleep with you in the shelter? HYOH.
Want to build a big bonfire and yell thru the night with your friends? Sure, why not? HYOH.
Want to bring a trombone and blast out tunes? Sure. HYOH.

HYOH is NOT an excuse for idiocy.

[Tipi Walter]

Now when it comes to some new hiker or an old timer that doesn't know etiquette or LNT, I try to show and help them with a easier way or the proper way. No Name calling. But if they continue to do it the way they were doing in the beginning well I am sorry but they are a tardiot in my book. Albert Einstein said Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

"Tardiot" is an excellent variation and combination of two words associated with Trail Idiots. Einstein I think would've changed his quote if he saw some of the crap I've seen in the last many years---

As in "Insanity is leaving ungodly crap along trails and in various campsites; and doing this over and over again and expecting the same filthy results."

P1000308-XL.jpg
A random chair left in the middle of nowhere on the Panther Creek trail in TN.
Trip 21 2-XL.jpg
A firepit hell-wad on Slickrock Creek in the Kilmer/Slickrock wilderness.
TRIP 100 147-L.jpg
This would've really got old Albert's attention---A fecal load with tp left in a campsite on the South Fork Creek trail in Citico wilderness.
TRIP 114 095-L.jpg
A pile of cans in a firepit on the Stratton Ridge trail and miles from any road.
TRIP 167 040-XL.jpg
Camp crap left by idiots on Snowbird Creek in NC---and miles from any road.
TRIP 167 170-XL.jpg
Typical NC firepit on Snowbird Creek.
TRIP 173 031-XL.jpg
Redneck effluvia left at a campsite in Cold Spring Gap on the Benton MacKaye trail.
Trip 175 079-XL.jpg
Very weird---a roll of toilet paper perched on a stick and left in the middle of Crowder Camp on Fodderstack Ridge in TN.

Please don't use the term "couch potato" either as it may be offensive to the "fine furniture guild of America" ...or at least the agriculture workers, well someone will be pissed somewhere I'm sure.

I often use the term "rolling couch potato" for nature tourists---windshield tourists---who never leave their cars and walk. I'm worried most especially about offending potatoes and other vegetables.

Hear hear. 9/10 when someone drops HYOH it's an excuse for being a douchebag.

You're right.

[rocketsocks]

"Tardiot" is an excellent variation and combination of two words associated with Trail Idiots. Einstein I think would've changed his quote if he saw some of the crap I've seen in the last many years---

As in "Insanity is leaving ungodly crap along trails and in various campsites; and doing this over and over again and expecting the same filthy results."

P1000308-XL.jpg
A random chair left in the middle of nowhere on the Panther Creek trail in TN.
Trip 21 2-XL.jpg
A firepit hell-wad on Slickrock Creek in the Kilmer/Slickrock wilderness.
TRIP 100 147-L.jpg
This would've really got old Albert's attention---A fecal load with tp left in a campsite on the South Fork Creek trail in Citico wilderness.
TRIP 114 095-L.jpg
A pile of cans in a firepit on the Stratton Ridge trail and miles from any road.
TRIP 167 040-XL.jpg
Camp crap left by idiots on Snowbird Creek in NC---and miles from any road.
TRIP 167 170-XL.jpg
Typical NC firepit on Snowbird Creek.
TRIP 173 031-XL.jpg
Redneck effluvia left at a campsite in Cold Spring Gap on the Benton MacKaye trail.
Trip 175 079-XL.jpg
Very weird---a roll of toilet paper perched on a stick and left in the middle of Crowder Camp on Fodderstack Ridge in TN.



I often use the term "rolling couch potato" for nature tourists---windshield tourists---who never leave their cars and walk. I'm worried most especially about offending potatoes and other vegetables.



You're right.

you're an equal opportunity poster when it come to mo-rons.