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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeBill View Post
    I just went to the LNT website and reread them. I failed to see where any of the principles are subjective in their meaning. They are very clear and state proven ways to enjoy the wilderness but not trash it up or destroy virgin areas. I guess I have just been doing for so long now that it is just second nature to me.
    I said it was the interpretation of the LNT principles that was subjective. Here is a thread I started many years ago about the varied ways that LNT is understood and applied. It's a thread that resurfaces from time to time and is up to over 200 posts. I found the discussion to be quite thoughtful.

    https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/sho...ind?highlight=

  2. #62
    Registered User gunner76's Avatar
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    youth today have no work ethic
    Wrong....there are many youth with a very strong work ethic...they are called Marines
    Hammock Hanger by choice

    Warbonnet BlackBird 1.7 dbl


    www.neusioktrail.org

    Bears love people, they say we taste just like chicken.

  3. #63
    Registered User BuckeyeBill's Avatar
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    I believe any one in the United States Armed Forces have a strong work ethic. Too bad the majority don't.
    Blackheart

  4. #64
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    It never gets old seeing people from the Woodstock generation calling younger generations irresponsible.

    Perhaps it's best to remember that each generation has a lot of good people and a few idiots, unfortunately the idiots are the ones that tend to make the news.
    Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

  5. #65

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    House wives w/chilren's have a strong work ethic

  6. #66

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    Let’s not mince words here. Any new amalgam created from the word retarded is referencing people with intellectual disabilities. If you feel like you just can’t embrace not pejoratively referencing certain groups (sometimes called “political correctness”) could you maybe start by not using the r-word? Of all the groups that one could be derogatory towards, how about not picking on the group that is the most intellectually challenged and least equipped to defend themselves.

    Regarding this idea of preaching LNT to the choir and how people here are not the ones violating LNT and the folks who do aren’t reading, look at this thread. It’s 2017 and people are still willing to use denigrating language in reference to people who through accident of birth have intellectual challenges. So yeah people that don’t give a f*&% are reading. Absolutely. Further though, we do have newbies reading who may not have picked up every nuance of outdoor etiquette as well as veteran hikers who have not seen the light about poor hiker behavior. Not everyone is going to agree on what is right or wrong but by saying nothing, how can those without an inkling of appropriate etiquette be educated?

    That’s a really long screed BuckeyeBill. However, Tipi Walter was painting with a broad brush. He’d just as soon close all the National Parks to vehicle traffic and has said so. There are people with physical disabilities who simply cannot hike the backcountry as Tipi Walter does who have just as much right to a nice view. It doesn’t mean they are an environmental disaster. My parents for instance worked their whole lives and are now retired. They also have physical disabilities. They have a right to drive their vehicles to see some natural areas. They are citizens who paid their taxes. This can be balanced between front country and backcountry and we can be respectful of other groups and not paint such a horribly bigoted picture of folks who may not recreate similarly. People are DEFINITELY not going to listen to you if you denigrate them as a group indiscriminately.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
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    Call for his whisky
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    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
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  7. #67
    Registered User BuckeyeBill's Avatar
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    Sorry Alligator, I will be more diligent in the future with the words I use. For what it's worth I always hire a kids from a special needs school here in town. They clean up the shop and dust off the cars. The last one I had does such a great job, that I forgot he has disabilities. When he graduates, I am going to bring him on full time if he wants the job.
    Blackheart

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alligator View Post
    Let’s not mince words here. Any new amalgam created from the word retarded is referencing people with intellectual disabilities. If you feel like you just can’t embrace not pejoratively referencing certain groups (sometimes called “political correctness”) could you maybe start by not using the r-word? Of all the groups that one could be derogatory towards, how about not picking on the group that is the most intellectually challenged and least equipped to defend themselves.

    Regarding this idea of preaching LNT to the choir and how people here are not the ones violating LNT and the folks who do aren’t reading, look at this thread. It’s 2017 and people are still willing to use denigrating language in reference to people who through accident of birth have intellectual challenges. So yeah people that don’t give a f*&% are reading. Absolutely. Further though, we do have newbies reading who may not have picked up every nuance of outdoor etiquette as well as veteran hikers who have not seen the light about poor hiker behavior. Not everyone is going to agree on what is right or wrong but by saying nothing, how can those without an inkling of appropriate etiquette be educated?

    That’s a really long screed BuckeyeBill. However, Tipi Walter was painting with a broad brush. He’d just as soon close all the National Parks to vehicle traffic and has said so. There are people with physical disabilities who simply cannot hike the backcountry as Tipi Walter does who have just as much right to a nice view. It doesn’t mean they are an environmental disaster. My parents for instance worked their whole lives and are now retired. They also have physical disabilities. They have a right to drive their vehicles to see some natural areas. They are citizens who paid their taxes. This can be balanced between front country and backcountry and we can be respectful of other groups and not paint such a horribly bigoted picture of folks who may not recreate similarly. People are DEFINITELY not going to listen to you if you denigrate them as a group indiscriminately.
    Thank you. You put into words my exact feelings. My now deceased wife, in her last few years of life, loved to do what your mom and dad do. Driving to the top of a mountain to see a sun set made her day. Her body, ravaged from an eight year battle with cancer, did not allow her to do much walking. Everybody has a right to enjoy public lands and do not deserve to be called childish names.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm the elf View Post
    It never gets old seeing people from the Woodstock generation calling younger generations irresponsible.

    Perhaps it's best to remember that each generation has a lot of good people and a few idiots, unfortunately the idiots are the ones that tend to make the news.
    Sarcasm is wise for one so young. Abide the elf.

  10. #70
    Registered User scope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by windlion View Post
    Great sunrise experience at McAfee Knob this Easter morning, save for one unfriendly exchange with a couple of hammock hikers wandering around the cliff area flashing full power headlamps into our dark-adapted eyes and eventually choosing a solitary pine sapling clinging to the rock edge as an anchor for both of their hammocks...

    They were using the old style narrow straps, too.

    Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk
    First, what are old style narrow straps? Ropes? Arghh, if so.

    It sounds to me, correct me if I'm wrong, but these weren't hikers looking for a place to camp at night, but rather some loungers who wanted to get a hang on to enjoy the sunrise. By and large, those folks aren't here on WB. When hammocks are sold as a lounging device in outdoor outfitter stores, this will happen. Especially when they are sold without tree hugger straps. Personally, the sentiment i would convey is to avoid buying a hammock that isn't sold with straps.
    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by cj2874 View Post
    Not related to LNT but isn't camping prohibited on top of McAfee Knob.
    Not especially well enforced, uf. Five tents up there when I climbed a few weeks ago.

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  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by windlion View Post
    Not especially well enforced, uf. Five tents up there when I climbed a few weeks ago.
    Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk
    Good to see there's still the entitled bunch who live live without concern of rules or impacts on others who may follow.

  13. #73
    Registered User MikekiM's Avatar
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    I get the spirit of the OP's cry for more consideration.. I do. I get it.

    My first thought was that hanging from a rhododendron is a self-fulfilling prophecy.. Keep hanging in that manner and sooner or later, you won't be doing much hanging at all. Tough to get a good flat lay from a wheel chair.

    In any event, I don't believe the HYOH mantra was born to give hangers latitude to be inconsiderate or reckless. Those characteristics transcend your choice of shelter.

    We hangers spend a lot of time figuring out ways to hang responsibly IE. protect the trees and LNT. Just as many ground dwellers are equally focused. And at the same time, there are people who violate as many rules as they can, as often as they can, with disrespect and disregard. In the end, you can't fix stupid.

  14. #74
    Registered User BuckeyeBill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikekiM View Post
    In the end, you can't fix stupid.
    you're right you can't fix stupid, but duct tape will muffle the screams.
    Blackheart

  15. #75
    Registered User Old Hiker's Avatar
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    Personally, my pet peeve is hangers that hang DIRECTLY over a perfectly flat spot in a well-used camping area. I never say anything - they are camping and it's a camping spot.

    When I used to hang, I always tried to find a less-desirable spot so the ground-dwellers could get the flat spots.
    Old Hiker
    AT Hike 2012 - 497 Miles of 2184
    AT Thru Hiker - 29 FEB - 03 OCT 2016 2189.1 miles
    Just because my teeth are showing, does NOT mean I'm smiling.
    Hányszor lennél inkább máshol?

  16. #76
    Registered User MikekiM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeBill View Post
    you're right you can't fix stupid, but duct tape will muffle the screams.
    This is true.. one of these days the laws will change regarding duct tape, rope and the trunk of your car..

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hiker View Post
    Personally, my pet peeve is hangers that hang DIRECTLY over a perfectly flat spot in a well-used camping area. I never say anything - they are camping and it's a camping spot.

    When I used to hang, I always tried to find a less-desirable spot so the ground-dwellers could get the flat spots.
    I agree with this ^^

  17. #77

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    Been reading these forums for a little while. It took stumbling across this bring out my first post. To simply say...
    Well stated, particularly the last couple sentences. Thank you.

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