Kathryn Jones is attempting a selfsupported record.

[Rmcpeak]

In my opinion as long as it was "random assistance" or whatever, the hitch does not disqualify this FKT, but, it clearly does not meet the same standard set for herself by Annish or himself by Kirk, etc. Oh, Annish was so pure! Kirk too, but I didn't watch his hike in real-time so I'm fonder of Annish.

If it were me, and it might be someday (I'm thinking of attempting to "shoot my age" on the the AT, that is hiking the trail in the same number of days as years I've been alive -- 60? 70? I'm 43 now so still time to train!) -- I would avoid hitching or cars of any sort and would try to plan my resupplies right on the trail or as close as possible. Duh! Annish and Kirk did well with this, wasting very little time/miles.

This raises an interesting idea that perhaps that way to appreciate and evaluate these FKTs is to consider them as demonstrations of technique and skill and stamina, rather than as races against existing time. Perhaps we should consider their purity, efficiency, grace, power, etc. Sort of like we would evaluate dance, music, martial arts, etc... Just a thought.

As for the 12 mile round trip into town -- that looks like a desperation move to me. Surely she didn't plan for a supply drop 6 miles off trail. But who knows with this one! I know her feet are hurting like hell and if she's favoring one or the other then the pain is moving up her legs into her knees and hips and back. At least that's been my experience. A pinkie toe blister turns into locked-up hip... Knee bone connected to the thigh bone...

[ScareBear]

I will play Lone Wolfs role. She has zero chance of a FKT. 39 and 29 isn't getting it done. N. Ga with fresh legs should be easy 40 mpd. Will be interesting to she if she leaves the trail or finishes when the realization that the FKT is out of reach.

Her lack of proper fitting footwear and proper trail hardening have doomed her, IMHO. Well, actually, IMHO she was never going to bag the FKT.

I just don't see how she can make 40mpd with the blisters getting worse. Losing a big toenail is a clear sign that the shoes are too long. Her toe is banging off the toe box on every downhill step. I've lost both of mine ski touring and to continue required copious quantities of CCF and duct tape.

I would give her props if she finishes even when the FKT is out of reach. However, I wouldn't deride her if she bails the trail. Her purpose was an FKT, not a TH. YMMV.

Eddie Bauer as an FKT sponsor.....isn't that sorta like Huffy sponsoring a Tour de France team?

[Rmcpeak]

I wouldn't deride her if she bails the trail

Agreed. Nobody should be derided for attempting something extremely challenging. But, like I said earlier in this thread, I think a publicly declared FKT attempt invites scrutiny and close observation and a certain amount of armchair quarterbacking. Overall, the spirit of this thread has remained fairly supportive I think. I have bitten my tongue about a few judgments and will continue to try to keep it positive.

This will be a learning experience and she'll probably try again. Or, she'll prove us all wrong, but that is growing less likely by the day.

[Kookork]

IMO, she is a sub category of her own. She might go for FKT as a first timer AT thru. Anish, Kirk and others had done AT once before if I am not wrong.

About the ride, when there is no governing body , hikers need to follow the rules the predecessors established.
Either she does not know the self governing rules or she does. If she does not then it means she has not been studying about the rules( not probable) or she knows and she does not want to follow which makes her unsupported attempt with one asterisk or more.

[Rmcpeak]

IMO, she is a sub category of her own. She might go for FKT as a first timer AT thru. Anish, Kirk and others had done AT once before if I am not wrong.

About the ride, when there is no governing body , hikers need to follow the rules the predecessors established.
Either she does not know the self governing rules or she does. If she does not then it means she has not been studying about the rules( not probable) or she knows and she does not want to follow which makes her unsupported attempt with one asterisk or more.

I think FKT subcategories should be avoided, else there will be a category for everything/everybody. The idea is pure. Fastest Known Time. Supported, or unsupported. Unsupported invites way more scrutiny. It is "purer" in a sense. Perhaps this hike and the questions it has raised on day 5 re: rides into town will help clarify the standard. If she gets a bunch of blowback or at least questions about it, then future hikers will be more inclined to avoid rides (and similar assistance -- albeit "random") and the standard will purify itself. Right?

Although I previously stated that I do not think Jones' ride into town disqualifies her, I do think that it would be pretty simple to make "no vehicles" a basic requirement of an unsupported FKT. It just makes sense and alleviates and questions.

Alas, I'm just lowly wannabe section hiker, so my opinion is pretty worthless.

[kythruhiker]

Either she does not know the self governing rules or she does. If she does not then it means she has not been studying about the rules( not probable) or she knows and she does not want to follow which makes her unsupported attempt with one asterisk or more.

She must know something of the self-governing rules or she wouldn't have announced her attempt to break Anish's record on the FKT Proboard. Somewhere on that same board are the rules Anish set, based on her predecessor, including not accepting rides.

[ScareBear]

To my thinking, an FKT is an absolute. It's the time it takes the minute you step on at Springer until the minute you summit K. If somebody gets rides into town and sleeps in motels every night, so what? It isn't "pure", no doubt. But, the FKT is a time without rules. There is no governing body, no set rules.

Now, if you want to set rules, then there needs to be a governing body. Which, since it seems FKT success seems to equate with a small bit of fame and fortune, seems to be an inevitability.

All that said, I truly respect the FKT that is without any motor vehicle rides at all. It IS pure. I wouldn't give much respect to an FKT with rides, but it would still be an FKT, in my book...

[Rmcpeak]

I think FKT subcategories should be avoided, else there will be a category for everything/everybody. The idea is pure. Fastest Known Time. Supported, or unsupported. Unsupported invites way more scrutiny. It is "purer" in a sense. Perhaps this hike and the questions it has raised on day 5 re: rides into town will help clarify the standard. If she gets a bunch of blowback or at least questions about it, then future hikers will be more inclined to avoid rides (and similar assistance -- albeit "random") and the standard will purify itself. Right?

Although I previously stated that I do not think Jones' ride into town disqualifies her, I do think that it would be pretty simple to make "no vehicles" a basic requirement of an unsupported FKT. It just makes sense and alleviates and questions.

Alas, I'm just lowly wannabe section hiker, so my opinion is pretty worthless.

Correction to what I said. Three categories, supported, self-supported, unsupported...

Supported, self-supported, unsupported? What does it mean?

• Supported means you have a dedicated support team that meets you along the way to supply whatever you need. This generally allows for the fastest, lightest trips, and for an element of camaraderie and safety, since someone knows about where you are at all times.
• Self-supported means that you don't carry everything you need from the start, but you don't have dedicated, pre-arranged people helping you. This is commonly done a couple different ways: You might put out stashes of supplies for yourself prior to the trip, or you might just use what's out there, such as stores, begging from other trail users, etc. Long distance backpackers are typically self-supported, since they resupply by mail drop or in stores.
• Unsupported means you have no external support of any kind. Typically, this means that you must carry all your supplies right from the start, except any water that can be obtained along the way from natural sources. This approach has also been termed "alpine style". The longest trip I'm aware of using this style is Coup's 20-day thru-hike of the Colorado Trail. For most people, carrying enough food for more than a few days to one week will be prohibitive. Unsupported also means unaccompanied! (i.e., no pacers) Further note: Some people get really crazy about what does or does not fit into "unsupported". I've had long conversations about this especially with Jeff List, who very thoroughly documented the opinions I expressed here.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Eddie Bauer as an FKT sponsor.....isn't that sorta like Huffy sponsoring a Tour de France team?

She is (was?) an Eddie Bauer employee.

[Kookork]

I think FKT subcategories should be avoided, else there will be a category for everything/everybody. The idea is pure. Fastest Known Time. Supported, or unsupported. Unsupported invites way more scrutiny. It is "purer" in a sense. Perhaps this hike and the questions it has raised on day 5 re: rides into town will help clarify the standard. If she gets a bunch of blowback or at least questions about it, then future hikers will be more inclined to avoid rides (and similar assistance -- albeit "random") and the standard will purify itself. Right?

Although I previously stated that I do not think Jones' ride into town disqualifies her, I do think that it would be pretty simple to make "no vehicles" a basic requirement of an unsupported FKT. It just makes sense and alleviates and questions.

Alas, I'm just lowly wannabe section hiker, so my opinion is pretty worthless.

I agree with you about avoiding subcategories but they will be created we like them or not. Climbing Everest for example now has god knows how many subcategories. Not all of them will go to record books( Wikipedia worthy!!) but they will be created regardless.

Ps: when I wrote Wikipedia worthy it just reminded me of Seinfeld "Sponge worthy" for some reason!!!

[Rmcpeak]

And here's the "Annish Rules:"

I formally state my intentions here–as per the protocol established on the main page of this site–that I will be attempting to set a self-supported FKT on the Appalachian Trail beginning in early August.
I have immense respect for the long line of people who have traveled this well-established and historical path in a quest to find their personal limits. In keeping with protocols established by them, and by myself on previous endeavors, I will travel in a self-supported manner.
This means:
Arranging for no pre-planned outside support at any time, and only accepting truly random acts of kindness (trail magic) that come my way.
I will carry all of my own gear and supplies at all times (no "slackpacking" or "muling").
I will walk into and out of resupply locations where I will purchase food and/or collect supply boxes that I have sent to myself.
I will follow the Appalachian Trail and official relocations only (such as the detour around Falls Village, CT), no blue blaze or alternate routes.
When I leave the trail for resupply purposes, I will rejoin the trail at the same location I left, leaving a continuous line of footprints the entire distance.
Never accepting a ride in a vehicle for any reason.
As always, I will respect the wilderness landscape, the lives that dwell therein, other trail users, and the generations of users that will follow by practicing Leave No Trace Ethics.
Per the main page suggestions I will provide a way for the public to follow along with my progress at facebook.com/AnishHikes. Please understand that the posts made there are in NO WAY an invitation for anyone to attempt to help me, find me, join me, or otherwise take away from the nature of a thru-hiker's journey. They are intended to document only, as suggested by this site. I will carry a SPOT beacon, although for safety, its logs will not be publicly available in real time.

I hope in my endeavor to not only bring parity to the male and female self-supported records, but if possible lower it overall. These records are currently held by Mr. Kirk and Miss Thomas, both of whom I hold in very high esteem.

This is my second journey through these ancient mountains and I look forward once again to the joy, struggle, challenge, and beauty of a 2,000+ mi hike undertaken in pursuit of finding and expanding my personal limits.

Heather "Anish" Anderson

[kythruhiker]

I will walk into and out of resupply locations where I will purchase food and/or collect supply boxes that I have sent to myself.
Never accepting a ride in a vehicle for any reason.

Those are the ones I was thinking of, and they follow the precedent of those that came before her. To do any less and say you "beat" a record wouldn't be valid in my eyes. If I go out and make something physically easier to do than the person that came before me, I dont' think I'd have the right to claim a record. That being said, obviously there is no governing body and folks are gonna do what folks are gonna do. I wish her the best, but she's already blown this as an FKT attempt in my opinion.

[colorado_rob]

Though there is no "governing body" for FKT pursuits, there is a definite established community with standards, and since this lady hitched a ride, her FKT is now DOA I'm afraid. This might be a good thing as it takes pressure off and she can heal and just do a kick-a $$ thru now.

Basically agreeing with kythru.

[Rmcpeak]

Those are the ones I was thinking of, and they follow the precedent of those that came before her. To do any less and say you "beat" a record wouldn't be valid in my eyes. If I go out and make something physically easier to do than the person that came before me, I dont' think I'd have the right to claim a record. That being said, obviously there is no governing body and folks are gonna do what folks are gonna do. I wish her the best, but she's already blown this as an FKT attempt in my opinion.

Upon reflection. I agree. This is no longer a self-supported FKT, per "The Annish Rules." I'm down with that. But who gives a @#$! what we think, right?

[Rmcpeak]

Should somebody tell her? ;-)

[Rmcpeak]

One thing I know, obsessing about the AT and FKTs and blah blah sure beats working!

[TX Aggie]

Her lack of proper fitting footwear and proper trail hardening have doomed her, IMHO. Well, actually, IMHO she was never going to bag the FKT.

I just don't see how she can make 40mpd with the blisters getting worse. Losing a big toenail is a clear sign that the shoes are too long. Her toe is banging off the toe box on every downhill step. I've lost both of mine ski touring and to continue required copious quantities of CCF and duct tape.

I would give her props if she finishes even when the FKT is out of reach. However, I wouldn't deride her if she bails the trail. Her purpose was an FKT, not a TH. YMMV.

Eddie Bauer as an FKT sponsor.....isn't that sorta like Huffy sponsoring a Tour de France team?

Agree, she's taking the risk regardless.

Honestly, I'm really interested in her follow up after she finishes, be that at t completion or leaving early. I'm curious what kind o pre-hike guidance she was given, because either she got really bad advice, or she ignored good advice.

Huffy.....now that's funny right there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fiddlehead]

I never liked the "no rides into and out of town" rule that Scott Williamson apparently started.
I always hitched into and out of towns and most hikers do.
So, all of a sudden, it's not allowed.
I say she's still in it, in my opinion.

[Rmcpeak]

I always hitched into and out of towns and most hikers do.

Were you attempting a self-supported FKT?

[capehiker]

Eddie Bauer as an FKT sponsor.....isn't that sorta like Huffy sponsoring a Tour de France team?

Interestingly- Huffy was the official bike for team 7-11 in the mid-80's when they were starting to generate attention as a legitimate American cycling team in the pro racing circuit.