Kathryn Jones is attempting a selfsupported record.

[Venchka]

Hadn't seen that you'd done that. Glad we got it covered.

You were much better and more thorough than I. Thanks.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rmcpeak]

I heard back from Kathryn. Her hike is now suspended. I told her about our discussion and invited her to join. She sounded eager to do so when she is able.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Malto]

I heard back from Kathryn. Her hike is now suspended. I told her about our discussion and invited her to join. She sounded eager to do so when she is able.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I really hope she gives this another try. She proved she can knock out consecutive high mile days. Heal up and get back in the saddle.

[Just Bill]

I really hope she gives this another try. She proved she can knock out consecutive high mile days. Heal up and get back in the saddle.

Indeed.
Wayne and RMcpeak: thanks for reaching out to her... that's how the trail is supposed to work.

[kythruhiker]

Nice job, glad she's seeking medical attention, and hope she heals up and gives it a proper non-hitching go afterwards. Much credit to her so far.

[rocketsocks]

Perfect!!!!!

[Just Bill]

For those that care to; Peter responded to my post(s) on FKT and easy enough to read it yerself.

for those that do; his comment about the PCT thread is in reference to his notation of a somewhat controversial supported FKT last season for those who didn't follow it and don't want to plunge any deeper. It appears that Peter has both efforts posted and remains true to his word to document the time itself and leave the community to discuss the style when comparing efforts.

So guess the closest to an official position is that he will continue to document valid trips, the community will judge and compare. The PCT thread presents a good example of what that would look like from his end and how this attempt might have played out if successful.

On a side note: much thanks to Peter for doing a thankless job well.

[Venchka]

Some good has come from our prattling.
Hardcore: You go girl! (That's New Orleans speak for get well and get back on the trail)
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Just Bill]

Some good has come from our prattling.
Hardcore: You go girl! (That's New Orleans speak for get well and get back on the trail)
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nah... it's still just prattling

[TX Aggie]

For those that care to; Peter responded to my post(s) on FKT and easy enough to read it yerself.

for those that do; his comment about the PCT thread is in reference to his notation of a somewhat controversial supported FKT last season for those who didn't follow it and don't want to plunge any deeper. It appears that Peter has both efforts posted and remains true to his word to document the time itself and leave the community to discuss the style when comparing efforts.

So guess the closest to an official position is that he will continue to document valid trips, the community will judge and compare. The PCT thread presents a good example of what that would look like from his end and how this attempt might have played out if successful.

On a side note: much thanks to Peter for doing a thankless job well.

Where is this FKT forum? I'm not familiar with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Venchka]

Kathryn has given an update on her medical treatment at Instagram. IV antibiotics, off of her feet for a few days. Possible toenail removal. She's lucky to be in good hands.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Traillium]

But the more I thought about it, and remembered Farley Mowat's book "Never cry wolf", I think it's possible.

You'd have to carry a lot of dried pasta of some kind (Ramen?, rice noodles? something lightweight for sure), And a lot of dried veggies or garlic, salt, vitamins, etc.
But, you could probably do it living on mice.
That's right: Mice.
There's plenty of them.
No law against killing them (that I know of)
No seasonal issues (like you'd have with fishing or hunting)

You might want to keep in mind that Farley Mowat is first and foremost a good storyteller …

[MuddyWaters]

Kathryn has given an update on her medical treatment at Instagram. IV antibiotics, off of her feet for a few days. Possible toenail removal. She's lucky to be in good hands.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good to.know
Theres plenty time for a do over

[Venchka]

I can still see Charles Martin Smith and the beaker of lemming goo in his tent.
Great movie.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rmcpeak]

Where is this FKT forum? I'm not familiar with it.

http://fastestknowntime.proboards.com/

[fiddlehead]

I like this Peter Bakwin and his comments.
Basically saying, he doesn't care if you get in a car or not, it's the fastest time, not the style that you did it in.
He doesn't want to get in an argument about it.
Just wants to note who does it the fastest.
I agree.

He also says somewhere that a hitch could take longer than a walk into town.
Depends how and where you plan your resupplies.

And something about hitchhiking being a time honored strategy.

If some think it opens the door to cheating?
How about trail magic then?
A few hot dogs and hamburgers could make a huge difference in some situations.

One thing about Scott Willimanson: He hiked the PCT numerous times before his record.
So, he had an advantage in planning his resupply points that could be walkable.
Of course I wouldn't call that cheating.
But would make it almost impossible for a first timer.
Maybe THAT's what you all want. ?

[Rmcpeak]

I like this Peter Bakwin and his comments.
Basically saying, he doesn't care if you get in a car or not, it's the fastest time, not the style that you did it in.
He doesn't want to get in an argument about it.
Just wants to note who does it the fastest.
I agree.

He also says somewhere that a hitch could take longer than a walk into town.
Depends how and where you plan your resupplies.

And something about hitchhiking being a time honored strategy.

If some think it opens the door to cheating?
How about trail magic then?
A few hot dogs and hamburgers could make a huge difference in some situations.

One thing about Scott Willimanson: He hiked the PCT numerous times before his record.
So, he had an advantage in planning his resupply points that could be walkable.
Of course I wouldn't call that cheating.
But would make it almost impossible for a first timer.
Maybe THAT's what you all want. ?

I agree that hitching is not necessarily going to be advantageous. When Jones went in on day 4 or whatever it was, I thought it looked like a desperation move. It couldn't have been her plan to take whatever time needed to hitch or walk 12 miles RT to town.

I think the real problem is that it's going to be too hard to have confidence in the "randomness" of the assistance if FKT hikers are hitching. If it were me, and it NEVER will be (ha!), I'd keep it as clean and uncontroversial as possible and stay out of cars.

BTW: I'm watching the documentary about the Barclay Marathons on Amazon -- it's great! Must see TV!

[MuddyWaters]

Look at matt k's ressuply strategy
you dont need to go far offtrail to resupply, ever, at 40-50 mpd

Unless you didnt plan well

[Just Bill]

I like this Peter Bakwin and his comments.
Basically saying, he doesn't care if you get in a car or not, it's the fastest time, not the style that you did it in.
He doesn't want to get in an argument about it.
Just wants to note who does it the fastest.
I agree.

He also says somewhere that a hitch could take longer than a walk into town.
Depends how and where you plan your resupplies.

And something about hitchhiking being a time honored strategy.

If some think it opens the door to cheating?
How about trail magic then?
A few hot dogs and hamburgers could make a huge difference in some situations.

One thing about Scott Willimanson: He hiked the PCT numerous times before his record.
So, he had an advantage in planning his resupply points that could be walkable.
Of course I wouldn't call that cheating.
But would make it almost impossible for a first timer.
Maybe THAT's what you all want. ?

Reading comprehension is a lost art.

Peter was fairly clear that he does care about style and nuance. He was also clear that the "job" of the site as he sees it is to simply record the times.
A faster time would be recorded. It would however be different, and not replace or best the current FKT, held by Anish.
I also agree with the fairness of that position and other discussions we've had on the topic. It's a tough spot for him, he has personal opinions and record keeping positions and walks a fine line. One of the principal and most fundamental goals laid out originally has always been to be open, honest, and fully transparent. From there, with all the cards on the table, a discussion can take place. I think many people miss how much mutual admiration there is simply in the attempt itself, and while there are some bitter disputes from time to time even when an effort is not considered an FKT... it is often appreciated and admired if it's honest, clean and honorable. Ultrarunners are competitive, but also ridiculously supportive of each other in much the same way hikers are.

He asks if hitching is even a valid strategy. I answer him with my opinion.
Peter's comment about hitching being time honored is correct, but again, meant in a very broad sense IMO and falling under what they call "thru-hiker style"

I don't disagree on the trail magic thing- but having yet to set an FKT and add that provision- it's a moot point.
And if someone wants to follow that theoretical hike and accept trail magic- that is their right. Peter would record it, folks would debate it.
If every subsequent attempt choose to allow trail magic in their guidelines... then the trail magic prohibition wouldn't stick.
If each subsequent attempt choose to forbid trail magic in their guidelines... then that would become the standard.

Anish clearly spells out her expectations and limitations regarding trail magic in her stated guidelines. I think that is where some confusion lies. When you announce your hike, you also announce the guidelines you are self-imposing upon your hike. Your "Rules" for the FKT. They are not made up out of thin air after the fact. They could be debated if someone chose. But they are self-imposed and meant to hold not only subsequent attempts to a standard but to impose a standard for that individuals hike. Here's what I want to do, here's how I plan to do it, and if successful- here's what I did.

Williamson has hiked the PCT more times than anyone to the best of my knowledge.
Ward Leonard had (at the time) hiked the AT more than anyone (not sure where and when Doyle surpassed him).

Regardless... experience is clearly an advantage. To date Scott Jurek is the only one to set an FKT on the AT his first time. Why would you not assume an experienced anyone has a better shot than a first timer?

Regarding this very specific FKT; known as the self-supported FKT on the Appalachian Trail. (no generalities)
Ward Leonard was actually in the middle of a continuous trip when he claimed his 60.5 day end to end. He had been hiking the trail for several months before... and I believe continued on after. He did not document the trip in any manner. Ward is his own interesting story. However several folks have come out to back up his claim. It was only last year that Wolf-2300 (SP?) verified that Ward hitched during the hike. So that is a 1990 hike, that was disclosed in an off hand comment in a magazine article and it took until 2016 to even nail down that barest of details about it.

For all intents and purposes Ward's trip was an urban myth. It was debatable if it was even possible or ever happened. I believe it did- but that's only belief. There was no FKT or precedents, no guidelines or rules.

In 2013 Matt Kirk set the first proper FKT. He adopted his guidelines based upon Scott Williamson's. His level of transparency and documentation are exceptional... especially for a self-supported effort.
His resupply strategy is fully available to this day and posted on his site. Matt required a whopping 9 miles of off trail travel to obtain his supplies. His longest single resupply was roughly 1 mile (one way) off trail.
Matt maintains this website to this day, as one of the ideals of the FKT community is that the one to set/hold the record HELP and SUPPORT anyone who attempts to best it.
Here is Matt's resupply sheet- (not positive this one is the final) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...vi0/edit#gid=0
Here is Matt's page that provides a blueprint for how to best his time... it cannot get anymore supportive than that. http://sub60.wikispaces.com/About

Multiple people (including myself) have published resupply lists with an FKT or no hitching minded approach. There are many hikers, for whatever personal reasons, who are uncomfortable with hitchhiking to towns. So there are many people on this site who have generously spent lots of free time making that an option for those who wish to hike. The Appalachian trail is literally the best marked, documented, and logistically clear trails on the planet. There is no mysterious edge to be gained at this point. There are books, guides and Apps. Matt Kirk has literally laid out everystep of his hike and published a book on how he succeeded. Deeper knowledge of the trail may allow you to improvise when the need arises... but to answer Peter's question more bluntly... if you can't figure out how to resupply on the AT without hitching you shouldn't be on the AT attempting an FKT period. It is quite possible to put together a resupply strategy that involved less than five miles of off trail travel. At a 20 min per mile moving pace it could absolutely take you longer to hitch than to walk it. Not to mention all the mental aspects of hitching that are easily eliminated.

If you care to see no hitching as a limitation imposed upon people to reduce access to the record that view is in serious error.
By upholding that provision and forcing someone to carefully review that strategy you are doing them an immense favor and vastly improving their chances overall.

After Matt;
Joey Camps bested his time in 2014, but did not attempt to claim an FKT once he was made aware of the violation of the guidelines.
In 2015, Anish bested Matt's time and upheld his guidelines and claimed the current ownership of the FKT.

That is the entire history of this FKT. Four people. Ward, Kirk, Camps, Anderson. One legend and three folks who followed Williamson's standard.
Matt is almost idiotically honorable, generous and kind.
Joey put up the fastest time after being injured during a horrible year and being injured badly enough to go to the hospital for an xray and taking a zero... not a bad day but a zero.
After he found out he broke the rules, after he knew his attempt wouldn't count, and he still finished. And then he honored the person before him and did not attempt a disputed claim.

Heather has yet to really document her hike. I won't get into that but to say it's disappointing.
I only bring it up because amidst the ninja mess in 2016... it was (fairly) brought up that if Anish didn't document her hike and provide GPS then why should another hiker have to.
You know who put the numbers together and salvaged what could be recovered from that busted gps data?

Matt ****ing Kirk.
The dude who held the record that Anish now holds was the one who helped defend her claim to it.
It would not have been difficult at all to keep his mouth shut, or even to open it up and say "Yah what about that, that FKT is mine."
That dude is a serious Richard Cranium huh? Just beating down all these newbies to hold on tight to that record and keep anyone from ever claiming it.

An if I wanted to be a jerk... I'd keep my fat yap shut and cheer on an attempt like Kathryn's all the way to big K right before I shoved her ass off the mountain and cried foul.
I stand by what I said over on Peter's site. If you can't even read the damn thread, you got no business trying. You make an announcement but can't bother to research the FKT itself? Inexcusable.
But so is standing by assuming the worst of a fellow hiker when this is about celebrating the best in people.


Peter Bakwin runs a website to document all these amazing efforts, across the wide array of runners, ultra-runners, hikers, honorable participants, cheaters and yahoos from all walks of life that want to be able to see who did what where and how anywhere on the planet. No person could be intimately familiar with each and everyone of these efforts. By default; as a defacto historian and occasional referee he has to be diplomatic and political in his responses. He has to speak in generalities lest some jerk pull his words from one FKT and apply them to the next. It's not about semantics, bull****, and lawyering. You can do whatever you want, but don't be surprised if folks will disagree however they want.

I'm not Peter, so I don't have to talk in generalities or be careful in my statements. I'm not a runner, I am a hiker. I don't hold one of these things, I got no skin in the game. Lotta LD hikers look back and look down on the AT, but it's still the best trail in the world in my opinion. And the self supported FKT an expression of the purest form of travel on it I can think of. You, a pack, a trail. I don't think any more or any less about a day hiker or a thru. But I have done just enough quick stepping to understand that there is something more to this type of hike and a depth of connection to the trail few would understand, even amongst thru hikers. It's about folks who are generally exceptionally nice people doing exceptionally cool things. Matt very sincerely believes in the concept of the FKT itself. That it's not the name on it that matters but the effort itself. That's why he so clearly and cleanly documented his efforts. He didn't set a record, he created one with the hope they would claim it. The name on it isn't the important part, and that's generally true across the board. Many of those folks feel that way. Joey didn't know ****all about any of it but when he found out he understood what he walked into and honored it at great personal cost.

Those are fellas I hold in pretty high regard on a personal level...

That's why you find folks so violently defending the FKT itself... not to piss on an individual who wishes to hold it or prevent them from doing so... but to ensure it remains something worthy of pursuit at all.
Otherwise it's just a stupid race and has no place in the woods at all, these folks would go back to telling their friends in private and avoid all the trouble sharing it with the world.
Nobody would give a **** who claimed it, least of all those who've held it before.

[Colter]

Reading comprehension is a lost art...

As is brevity, apparently.