Lets talk about poop

[AllDownhillFromHere]

Overview of composting privies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFzQPju12Fk

Doing the actual "mixing" - picture this in full sun on a humid 90 degree New England summer day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNn2MInwEhA

THIS is why LNT matters.

[QiWiz]

If you do decide to not pack out your TP where it is required or suggested to do so, you will minimize TP flowers and speed TP decomposition by taking a stick or other natural object and mixing your deposit with your TP and some topsoil in your properly dug cathole to the point where the TP and deposit and topsoil are thoroughly mixed and no TP can be identified as such. Adding some water or urine makes it easier to do this but is not essential.

[QiWiz]

Animals do tend to dig up catholes, in order to get at undigested food particles in your deposits. This (and improperly dug catholes, or no cathole at all) leads to the TP flower problem that everyone finds to be offensive when visible on the trail or in camp; deposits on TP flowers above ground are more likely to contaminate water supplies as well, even if well off trail.

If you do decide to not pack out your TP where it is required or suggested to do so, you will minimize TP flowers and speed TP decomposition by taking a stick or other natural object and mixing your deposit with your TP and some topsoil in your properly dug cathole to the point where the TP and deposit and topsoil are thoroughly mixed and no TP can be identified as such. Adding some water or urine makes it easier to do this but is not essential.

If you decide to pack out TP, I think the safest and least offensive option is to put smaller ziplocks (one per deposit's TP) inside a larger ziplock or OP sack. If you have to pack out both deposit and TP, it's worth using a WAG bag system. This is currently required in the Whitney zone for sure; not sure where else on PCT.

[windlion]

Yes carry out what you use.

I personally do not believe people should take tp into the wilderness. Period.

Use wet wipes. They work much better than tp. They get you cleaner because they are 'wet' and that means less Monkey Butt. It takes very few of them per day - 2 is more than enough for me. So the amount of material used is way less than tp requires.

I keep them in a sandwich size ziplock and that goes in my ziplock with the fresh wet wipes. Then in the garbage in town.

Wallmart and many other stores sell wet wipes in individual packets. And in small boxes of 15 packets. Ideal.

One wet wipes will clean a lot of your body also. When one hikes in the desert a lot like I do there is often no water available for washing purposes and having wet wipes is seriously nice.

Agreeing with @Wyoming. I use wetwipes and hand sanitizer, especially on hi traffic trails, and pack it out. My kit is outer gallon ziploc, shovel and bag of wipes, inner bag, used wipes. Considering upgrade to Loksack for outer bag, I do not put the kit in the air overnite -- obvious reasons.

From firsthand experience, did you need your hiking poles to summit Whitney? Are crampons required?

My Whitney is not on the PCT. It is off the PCT. And you can't dig a hole in granite. So you pack it out.

Freeblazing where I want to and when I want to

[Malto]

Burning TP is a really, really bad idea. Most of the area along trail is covered with deep duff--decomposing conifer needles--which is very flammable. You are essentially putting a lit match into that stuff. Fires can smolder for a long time underground before anyone aboveground notices. Just carry it out instead.

I guess you missed the bolded part that said "where fire risk is low". (That's why I put it in bold!) In no wind situations and in areas without the decomposing pine needles or other highly flammable fuel you can do this without risk. Any "embers" are mixing with your poo until fully out or you piss on it. It is a lot less of a fire danger than using an alcohol or gas stove if you use just a bit of common sense.

[Mags]

Combining threads because they are about the same GD thing.

[rocketsocks]

I guess you missed the bolded part that said "where fire risk is low". (That's why I put it in bold!) In no wind situations and in areas without the decomposing pine needles or other highly flammable fuel you can do this without risk. Any "embers" are mixing with your poo until fully out or you piss on it. It is a lot less of a fire danger than using an alcohol or gas stove if you use just a bit of common sense.

yeah I missed that, but it wouldn't be long till it juxed from when fire risk is low, to just "burn it" and then burger is absolutely right, some nit wit is gonna start a forest fire by touchin' the duff off.

[Tipi Walter]

Burning TP is a really, really bad idea.

Totally agree, unless you're in camp with a campfire. People aren't too smart when they burn their TP---Fact is, part of the paper is wet with effluvia and won't burn.

Btw and this is important for newbies to know: A couple times over the years I had to birth a Field-Turtlehead and NOTHING came off onto the toilet paper---Remarkably, I had an absolutely clean bunghole.

[Lnj]

Diet goals... Pooping nirvana.

[AlpineKevin]

Unfortunately, paper of any type in arid climates will take a very long time to break down, buried it takes far longer.

You are an idiot. Decomposition takes far longer un-buried than buried. Decomposition buried of WOOD PAPER takes 2 months. Studies have been done.

[AlpineKevin]

The problem is, we're not talking about 1 or 2 people on these trails finding themselves needing to "poop in the woods." It's now literally thousands.

You are suggesting that toilet paper decomposes at more than 2 months if there are other holes with toilet paper in them within a few miles?????

[AlpineKevin]

The PCT was liberally lined with little white/brown blooms, and it made me sick. The situation on high-use portions of the PCT has gotten out of control.

That is not a matter of buried vs packed out. That is a matter of stupid lazy hikers who are so freakin dumb they do not have the intellectual capacity to know how to simply dig a hole. I will never argue for just throwing your sh-t paper all over the trail. The question is the ridiculous requirement of packing out wood verses PROPERLY burying that wood.

[AlpineKevin]

Once there was a beautiful clean mountainous river in proximity of my home town Tehran,Iran. I used to go and catch trout there. Great memories.Then came the invention of plastic soda bottles and people who were enjoying camping in the river side started to leave their bottles there or worse threw them in river thinking what a soda bottle could do to a strong and vast mountain river. Fast forward twenty years and now there are parts of that river you can cross the river by walking over the plastic bottles that has jammed in every corner. A man made disaster.
It started when people started to think there was nothing wrong with one single trash left there. When what we do to trails is not sustainable then we need to do whatever it takes to keep it clean, including the necessity of packing out every single trash we are producing. Whatever it takes.

Yes your comparison of throwing thousands of plastic bottles in a river is completely analogous to burying some paper in the ground (roll eyes).

[rocketsocks]

You are an idiot. Decomposition takes far longer un-buried than buried. Decomposition buried of WOOD PAPER takes 2 months. Studies have been done.

i just had to laugh

[rocketsocks]

I read a "hiker trash confessions" once where a hiker smeared the poop all over a rock (a common practice) and another hiker came along and said it was a perfect likeness of Little Richard, i think there was a picture floatin' around. I would have loved to seen a picture of that, does anyone have it?

[AlpineKevin]

Decomposition of Charmin Ultra (not even some cheap thin backpaper TP):

http://hikethru.com/hiking-informati...-decomposition

So I was wrong. It takes about 1 month for the extremely thin WOOD Charmin Ultra to decompose, not 2 months. My sincerest apologies.

[burger]

I guess you missed the bolded part that said "where fire risk is low". (That's why I put it in bold!) In no wind situations and in areas without the decomposing pine needles or other highly flammable fuel you can do this without risk. Any "embers" are mixing with your poo until fully out or you piss on it. It is a lot less of a fire danger than using an alcohol or gas stove if you use just a bit of common sense.

Common sense? Ha. I trust today's average PCT hiker to judge fire risk several inches down into the duff about as far as I can throw one of them. There are just too many idiots out there to rely on people's good judgment to not start a fire. Almost every year now, PCT hikers start fires. Why create more of that?

[AllDownhillFromHere]

I read a "hiker trash confessions" once where a hiker smeared the poop all over a rock (a common practice) and another hiker came along and said it was a perfect likeness of Little Richard, i think there was a picture floatin' around. I would have loved to seen a picture of that, does anyone have it?

Years ago when hiking the AT a gal from SoCal told me about this. Is "smearing" really a thing? The supposed logic was that it all quickly dries out and blows away like dust.

[AlpineKevin]

Now banning fires is something that I can totally get behind. Why thousands of people are allowed to start fires in the middle of summer in one of the driest mountain ranges in the world in an area that is known the world over for massive wildfires is beyond me. Risking putting up in flames areas the size of entire states just so someone can have their coffee or eat a warm meal instead of a dry one is beyond me. I never use my oven or microwave. All the food I eat at home is dry so I'm not sure why it is a big deal for people to do it for a couple months.

So packing out wood is a requirement.

But starting fires everywhere in the dry wilderness is ok.

This NLTB stuff is hard to understand.

[Lnj]

How much fun would it be to have that dust your face and lips in a little breeze? We really more emojis on here.. the one with the white mask.