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  1. #1
    Registered User Sidetrail's Avatar
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    Default Sleeping Bag Liner vs Pair of Tights

    I have a S2S sleeping bag liner for use with my ZPacks 30 degree bag. I have it for two reasons. First to add warmth, maybe 5 degrees? And second, to keep my bag a little cleaner so that I don't have to wash it on my thru hike (or as often). It weighs 8.5 oz. So the question is should I skip the liner and just add a 4 oz pair of long underwear? The long underwear coupled with a light top layer would probably be warmer than the liner. I could also wear them on those days when its a little too cold for shorts but to warm for my convertible pants. If the above is true, then is the idea of keeping the inside of my bag cleaner really an issue? I am leaving on my thru hike on April 5th so it shouldn't be cold at night for very long. What do you think?

  2. #2
    Some days, it's not worth chewing through the restraints.
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    well... you can't wear the bag liner while doing laundry

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    Some days, it's not worth chewing through the restraints.
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    Default

    but for a more helpful response, the bag liner isn't as versatile as 8.5 ounces of other choices

  4. #4

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    I like my bag liner and my tights, I carry both.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  5. #5
    Registered User egilbe's Avatar
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    I wear tights and/or a baselayer, but no silly sleeping bag liners. Never really saw the point in them when bag ratings are posted assuming one is wearing base layers. Just buy a warmer bag.

  6. #6
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    The thermal baselayer is definitely more versatile, and for me more comfortable. I sleep cold so the 30 degree bag without multiple layers would be an issue. Last year most nights in April and May were in the 35-45 degree range. Low was 22 degrees with a heavy wind in the Smokies in mid May.

  7. #7

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    You can keep your bag clean by wearing your sleeping clothes in it instead of your filth from the day. You don't need a liner, imo
    Depending on your hike timing, at some point you might need base layers + down jacket or something to extend that bag comfort rating

  8. #8
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    I hate bag liners. They twist and make it difficult to reach/use your zipper. Sleep clothes will typically be lighter and more versatile.

  9. #9

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    When people talk about using a sleeping bag liner, I automatically assume they are already using thermals and the liner is for extra warmth above that. You can't wear a sleeping bag liner when it's a cold morning.

  10. #10
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    It's my assertion based on my own experience you'll get greater warmth from a S2S 4.8 oz ripstop silk mummy liner w/ hood - with the hood tied somewhat loosely closed around the head and shoulders to prevent escaping already body warmed air inside from escaping and losing thermal loss through the head area(wearing a beanie/sherpa type hat/balaclava, etc also helps but the liner hood adds to the warmth with a very marginal hood wt hit) - than any 4 oz thermal bottoms. This S2S model has stretchable polyester/lycra side panels that move when I turn and toss as a rotisserie side to side all night sleeper. PLUS, ripstop silk has less friction with the inside of taffeta or nylon lined sleeping bags/quilts so has less inclination to bind one up as they toss and turn then some other liner materials like cotton that liners are made from.

    I find a Ul silk liner a useful UL tool extending the comfortable sleep system temp range. This doesn't not mean I don't also use sleeping layers! It's a layered sleep system to which I adhere. It sounds like you are doing the same. I believe with the heavier liners there are more varietal and lighter wt approaches to achieving the warmth in amended core sleep systems. But for adding 5-7 degrees a 4.8 oz wt hit is a wt penalty I'm willing to occasionally take to extend those several degrees to the sleep system while addressing other things like drafts in a quilt, keeping the UL quilt/bag clean, and increasing durability of the lightest wt inner bag/quilt interior liner fabrics. I also don't relegate a liner to just sleeping.

    ZP's wispy .7 Ventum interior liner can benefit IMO from some added protection and durability that a liner could serve. If your ZP 30* bag doesn't have a draft tube, zip?, and your accustomed to extending this bag well below its temp rating a liner can also help. Plus, the hooded silk mummy liner is part of the hood/headwear warming system in your hoodless sleeping bag. This is an option.

    FWIW I don't recognize a sleeping liner as a piece just for sleeping warmth. Many times I've used, had to, a silk liner as a Arab Shemagh Keffiyeh type shawl as a torso layer. It's also what I typically wear at the laundromat as a toga when everything else being carried is being washed. This is multi use UL backpacking philosophy.

    http://alexnld.com/product/unisex-wo...FdgDgQoddP0E7A

    This is one approach that has worked for me in my experiences extending warmth to sleep systems. It is not the only approach.

  11. #11
    Registered User KDogg's Avatar
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    I carried a bag liner after VA to keep my bag clean. It did add a bit of warmth but nothing to plan for. Every time I washed clothes, I washed the liner too. Kept my bag from getting so filthy. My particular liner was permethrin treated. Not sure if it really made a difference but I didn't hurt.

  12. #12
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    I've never liked tight thermals for sleeping, I've always preferred using a woobie (poncho liner, with in this case is essentially a liner) or loose fitting polypropylene (yes, I know: I'm behind the times)

    The point is: thermals always left me with cold spots in my bag. When using looser clothes or a liner, the warmth from my torso would help warm up my feet better than if I wore typical snug fitting base layers and socks.

    Just what works for me.


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  13. #13
    Registered User -Rush-'s Avatar
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    UA ColdGear Compression Leggings are what I prefer. Far better than a liner and more useful.
    "Though I have lost the intimacy with the seasons since my hike, I retain the sense of perfect order, of graceful succession and surrender, and of the bold brilliance of fall leaves as they yield to death." - David Brill

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rush- View Post
    UA ColdGear Compression Leggings are what I prefer. Far better than a liner and more useful.
    Explain better Rush? R U saying those compression leggings are going to offer as much warmth as a 4.8 oz silk liner w' hood that is cinched up that encloses the whole body and helps warm the entire air space inside a sleeping bag or quilt?

    I'm not against compression tights. I have Drskin and 2XU versions for running and possibly day(summiting, etc) or weekend backpacking jaunts in colder weather but they weigh about or more than the specific silk liner I stated and does not offer as much warmth in a sleeping bag than the liner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Explain better Rush? R U saying those compression leggings are going to offer as much warmth as a 4.8 oz silk liner w' hood that is cinched up that encloses the whole body and helps warm the entire air space inside a sleeping bag or quilt?

    I'm not against compression tights. I have Drskin and 2XU versions for running and possibly day(summiting, etc) or weekend backpacking jaunts in colder weather but they weigh about or more than the specific silk liner I stated and does not offer as much warmth in a sleeping bag than the liner.
    I agree. I love UA Cold Gear when I'm active, but compression leggings while I'm sleeping just means less blood getting down to my feet. I put off decent heat, but my feet always seem to be cold, especially in socks which is why I like loose fitting sleep clothes or a liner. I have used silk thermals, and I still think they are highly underrated.

    But if it works him then it works.

  16. #16
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    I would think keeping more blood in your core with compression bottoms that are 3/4 or 1/2 length while addressing the foot warmth with some warm socks or down UL booties might work very well for warmth. I was more asking Rush about his conclusions because I've experienced something different. I want to know what works for others but I need to know under what circumstances, within what context.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    I would think keeping more blood in your core with compression bottoms that are 3/4 or 1/2 length while addressing the foot warmth with some warm socks or down UL booties might work very well for warmth. I was more asking Rush about his conclusions because I've experienced something different. I want to know what works for others but I need to know under what circumstances, within what context.
    In theory this makes sense, but in practical use I've found this doesn't work (for me).

    Your core will always be warmer, period. The difference is whether you tend to have warmer or cooler extremities. I camped a lot as a kid, then as a job in the Army. I've spent many nights in sub-freezing temps in less than ideal tentage. Especially in the Army, they initially taught us to layer up and use polypropylene inside our bags. While that worked, my feet always seemed to be cold. Later I met up with some guys who had spent time in 10th Mountain and discovered many wear nothing but their boxers/briefs. They said the key is to crate space within your bag itself instead of gathering it in tight. It takes a few more minutes to warm up in your bag, but your core will warm up the space in the bag surrounding you torso. Your breathing will then naturally help circulate the warmth throughout the full bag, even down to your feet. As you warm up the full bag, this also helps to dilate your leg vessels, which further radiates heat into the bag.
    Contrary, when you wear tight, restrictive clothing, your body heats up the clothing first, and only locally. You will eventually warm up the bag, but it will take much longer and the interior won't get as warm. The real problem is with reduced circulation from the compression which only amplifies the local cold spots due to decreased circulation.

    Again, this is just my experience. I was skeptical at first as well, but it completely changed my sleeping experience outside.

  18. #18
    Registered User HeartFire's Avatar
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    The difference between using a liner and a base layer is the pockets of WARM air that get trapped inside the liner. It's these air pockets that aid in insulation and warmth. There is no air pocket between you and the base layer which is skin tight.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadeye View Post
    well... you can't wear the bag liner while doing laundry
    Technically, you can. But maybe you don't want to?

  20. #20
    Leonidas
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    I looked it up as I have always heard compression has the complete opposite effect. Hence diabetic compression socks and UA recovery compression gear.
    http://www.fleetfeethartford.com/spo...er/compression
    AT: 471 mi

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