Standing Indian trail loop

[Tenderfoot752]

Hello everyone! My gf and I are planning a section hike in the Standing Indian area of the NC AT this summer, probably early July. We are both beginning hikers and know nothing of the AT. This section was chosen simply because everything I've read says it's a good beginner starting point. We are both in our 40's and in fairly good shape. We hike Raven Rock State Park and Umstead in Raleigh regularly, but have done no more than 5 miles on any single outing. My questions are these:
1. In this section, how many camping areas do we expect to find, and how far apart are they?
2. We will be tent camping, so are fires allowed, or forbidden, or in designated areas only?
3. Are there resupply stations here, and what will we expect to find there?
4. I understand there are lavatories in the camping areas, are there shower facilities?
5. Are water sources readily available? We plan on carrying 2L each and refilling on hike.
6. We are expecting this to be a 3-4 day loop back to our starting point, and realize it's not a camping trip where we'll be grilling steaks and burgers every evening, so what foods are best suited for this kind of trip?
These are our questions at this point, any help, advice, or opinions are welcomed and appreciated. Anything else you think we should know would be beneficial as well.
Thanks in advance!!

[golfjhm]

Campsite options are long branch shelter, betty creek gap, carter gap (shelter), beech gap, SIM summit area, SIM shelter - fairly evenly spaced. You will need to get a map/stat book - it can tell you mileages. Fires are allowed unless there is a burn ban from drought - there was recently and the area recieved some fire damage but I think the ban has been lifted. No resupply options but you shouldn't need a resupply with 2 of you and a 3-4 day trip. Bathrooms and showers are only at the St Ind Campground (your start and end point). Water sources should be pretty prevalent and if you are carrying 2L each you should be fine. Food you should carry dehydrated food for meals - Backpackers Pantry, Mtn House, etc.

[ScareBear]

Campsite options are long branch shelter, betty creek gap, carter gap (shelter), beech gap, SIM summit area, SIM shelter - fairly evenly spaced. You will need to get a map/stat book - it can tell you mileages. Fires are allowed unless there is a burn ban from drought - there was recently and the area recieved some fire damage but I think the ban has been lifted. No resupply options but you shouldn't need a resupply with 2 of you and a 3-4 day trip. Bathrooms and showers are only at the St Ind Campground (your start and end point). Water sources should be pretty prevalent and if you are carrying 2L each you should be fine. Food you should carry dehydrated food for meals - Backpackers Pantry, Mtn House, etc.

Pretty much the above. Plus, this area burned extensively last year.

If you are asking about food and resupply on what should be no more than a 4 day 3 night hike, I am a little concerned about your physical conditioning...this isn't a particularly easy hike. There is some steep efforting required. Have you backpacked before/recently? Take a look at the elevation profile for this loop...

[bigcranky]

Note that last year the forest service closed about half of the tenting areas on this loop. Beech Gap and Carter Gap were open, but the tenting areas at Standing Indian Shelter and Betty Creek Gap were closed. There is a new shelter near the Long Branch trail, and it has a handful of tent sites. Not sure what the status is this year, but worth a call to the USFS ranger station for that area.

Now, onto the hike.

The loop of the Kimsey Creek Trail, Appalachain Trail, and Long Branch Trail is about 25 miles, and makes a nice 3-day, 2-night loop. There are some tough climbs on this section -- that's not meant to scare you off, just be prepared for them.

No resupply, no showers on this loop. No "lavatories" at the shelters, the best you will find is a pit toilet. Please use it.

Water is generally not an issue depending on when you go. There are springs at the shelters where you can refill, and you will cross a couple of streams. The guidebooks (Companion or AT Guide) will note where the water is located. I print out the pages that I need for a weekend hike - very useful.

Food. This is a big topic for a simple reply. We end up carrying about 2 pounds of food per person per day, but note that a three day hike only requires 2 days of food and an extra lunch, since we'll eat breakfast in town on day one, and dinner in town on the last day. For lots of good info, you should probably start here: http://www.trailcooking.com/trail-cooking-101/ . We prefer to buy our hiking food in a grocery store, and avoid the "freeze dried meals" they sell in backpacking shops.

We did this hike the first time in April of 2000, then again last year over Memorial Day Weekend. Very heavily crowded at the open camping areas last year. If I were to do it again, it would not be on a holiday weekend.

Good luck and I hope you enjoy it.

[daddytwosticks]

Beautiful hike before the fires this past fall. Take your time and enjoy all the creeks along the way, especially in the heat of summer.

[SCEd]

This is a great hike I have done 3 times. One thing I want to be sure you know is to bring a filter and filter your water. There are plenty of resupply points with streams and springs along the way but no potable water. I was there about 3-4 weeks ago and it is burnt from the Kimsey Creek Trail (where you will either join or leave the AT depending on direction) almost to the top of Albert Mt. By July it will probably be pretty clean but you might be required to stay in the shelters?

Be prepared for the last 1/3 mile of Albert. It is a pretty strenuous climb, but also an awesome section you should not miss, both the trail and the view at the firetower. Also one of my favorite places to camp is up on top of Standing Indian Mountain (again if allowed, which it probably will by then). The campsite is on an amazing overlook with a fire-ring for your campfire. Be sure to spend the night there. It is about 1.5 miles up the mountain from the Standing Indian Shelter, so to be clear, I am referring to Standing Indian Summit, not at the Standing Indian Shelter.

I recommend you do the loop starting at the Information Center at the Standing Indian Campground, up the Kimsey Creek Trail to the AT, go north on the AT, and take the Long Branch Trail back to the information center at the Standing Indian Campground.

Kimsey Creek trail approx 3.5 mi.
AT for approx 18 mi
Longbranch Trail 1.2 mi or so.

So a total of 22-23 miles. A good 3 days for beginners in pretty good shape. Better make if 4 if you are out of shape or get started later in the day.

Have fun! This is an awesome hike to start with.

[Tenderfoot752]

Thanks everyone for your input! Very useful info provided. Hope to run into some of you real soon!

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[Tenderfoot752]

After waiting a few days to find the most non-abrasive way to respond, I've come up with this.
You asked if we've been backpacking or hiking before/recently. Well, my response is, that info is clearly stated in my original post. As for being "concerned about our physical conditioning", perhaps there is a better way to say that. Maybe something like.."Make sure you are physically and mentally prepared for the challenge of this loop." There was no way for you to know that I'm a 7 yr veteran of the USMC and have had my boots on several harsh "hikes". My gf is a 4 yr veteran of the USAF, so she's not exactly ignorant of what we may be facing either. I appreciate your input, but as stated, I'm asking these questions because we've never hiked HERE before. Because we're admittedly "newbies" to the AT, please don't assume we're 2 yuppies from the city looking to hug a couple trees.
Apologies if any offense is taken.

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[BobTheBuilder]

I wouldn't stress about the snarkiness. It's hard to avoid anywhere online these days.

I didn't see any direct answers to your food question. When I section hike I bring Clif Bars or Poptarts with Starbucks Via instant coffee for breakfast, pre-packaged cheese and crackers or peanut butter and crackers for lunch, and Mountain House for dinner. I'll also bring a couple of sweet and savory snacks like candy bars or almonds. I have found that I don't develop a ravenous hiker hunger on a 5 or 6 day section hike, so I always try to avoid overpacking food.

Also, that area is pretty warm in the summer, so you might consider some Gatorade powder to mix with your water.

[RockDoc]

I recall plenty of good water on that stretch... No need to carry 2 l full all the time. Look at the map and avoid carrying water up to water, unless it's super hot, or springs are dry, or you are about to camp for the night (generally do that where there's lots of water, often no need to carry it there). Just a tip to save carrying a bunch of needless weight.

[Tenderfoot752]

I wouldn't stress about the snarkiness. It's hard to avoid anywhere online these days.

I didn't see any direct answers to your food question. When I section hike I bring Clif Bars or Poptarts with Starbucks Via instant coffee for breakfast, pre-packaged cheese and crackers or peanut butter and crackers for lunch, and Mountain House for dinner. I'll also bring a couple of sweet and savory snacks like candy bars or almonds. I have found that I don't develop a ravenous hiker hunger on a 5 or 6 day section hike, so I always try to avoid overpacking food.

Also, that area is pretty warm in the summer, so you might consider some Gatorade powder to mix with your water.

Thanks, I appreciate the input!

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[Tenderfoot752]

I recall plenty of good water on that stretch... No need to carry 2 l full all the time. Look at the map and avoid carrying water up to water, unless it's super hot, or springs are dry, or you are about to camp for the night (generally do that where there's lots of water, often no need to carry it there). Just a tip to save carrying a bunch of needless weight.

Good tip! Not knowing what to expect, I probably would carry more water than needed, LOL! Better to have and not need than to need and not have.... I hope!

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[TNhiker]

After waiting a few days to find the most non-abrasive way to respond, I've come up with this.
You asked if we've been backpacking or hiking before/recently. Well, my response is, that info is clearly stated in my original post. As for being "concerned about our physical conditioning", perhaps there is a better way to say that. Maybe something like.."Make sure you are physically and mentally prepared for the challenge of this loop." There was no way for you to know that I'm a 7 yr veteran of the USMC and have had my boots on several harsh "hikes". My gf is a 4 yr veteran of the USAF, so she's not exactly ignorant of what we may be facing either. I appreciate your input, but as stated, I'm asking these questions because we've never hiked HERE before. Because we're admittedly "newbies" to the AT, please don't assume we're 2 yuppies from the city looking to hug a couple trees.
Apologies if any offense is taken.

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i don't see asking that question as snarkiness....

its more of a general question to see/make sure that people don't get in over their heads in a hike...

a lot of people come on here thinking they can pull high mileage off when most times they don't realize how hard and tough some of these mountains can be....some people bite off more than they can chew...

and with that knowledge---people on this board can give answers and suggestions to help one out...

thats all it is...

[Tenderfoot752]

I agree, that's why I pointed out that there was no way of anyone knowing our background. It's also why I waited and chose my words carefully as I didn't want any mis understanding. The info given was/is appreciated AND taken seriously. Because of that one response in particular, I may re-evaluate our route after some more research. I'm sure that a lot of people get in over their heads, and that's not to say I/we won't, but that's why I'm here, asking what may seem to be silly questions. Thank you for your response as well.

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[golfjhm]

I don’t think there was any offense intended by scarebear. Sounds like he was more questioning your experience level since you asked about resupply and showers on a 23 mile loop and what food to bring. Definitely newb questions but you are a newb which is TOTALLY fine. It is not a big deal if you don’t know these types of things yet. Backpacking is a constant learning experience, which is part of what I like about it. I hope to learn something new on every trip. The key is to learn from people that have more experience than you and then pass along what you know to others. You will probably learn more on this trip when you go than I have on my last 20 trips due to your experience level….and that makes me jealous. I remember the revelation moments on different tricks and tips quite fondly. Enjoy the trip.

[ScareBear]

After waiting a few days to find the most non-abrasive way to respond, I've come up with this.
You asked if we've been backpacking or hiking before/recently. Well, my response is, that info is clearly stated in my original post. As for being "concerned about our physical conditioning", perhaps there is a better way to say that. Maybe something like.."Make sure you are physically and mentally prepared for the challenge of this loop." There was no way for you to know that I'm a 7 yr veteran of the USMC and have had my boots on several harsh "hikes". My gf is a 4 yr veteran of the USAF, so she's not exactly ignorant of what we may be facing either. I appreciate your input, but as stated, I'm asking these questions because we've never hiked HERE before. Because we're admittedly "newbies" to the AT, please don't assume we're 2 yuppies from the city looking to hug a couple trees.
Apologies if any offense is taken.

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Meh. You'd have to do/say a LOT worse to offend me.

Only you know your physical capability. Thank you and your wife for your service.

I always assume folks know more than they do about where they are going to hike. Your questions were as if you did little to no research. Your description of your physical condition was hiking for no more than five miles at a time. First, you assumed you would need and/or there would be "resupply" stations. Not quite sure about that assumption for any hike. Resupply Stations...trying to visualize it......sorry, can't. All I got was Starbucks kiosks at road crossings...Second, you seemed to assume there would be taps to fill your canteens and proper lavatories. Showers, even. (I don't want to hear about the Fontana Hilton, OK???) So, you will excuse me for assuming you two were total newbies to wilderness backpacking and for assuming the two of you had absolutely not a single clue what you were getting into. So, I put it out there. Because your questions asked for it. Sorry, but while I didn't mean to "offend" you, I did intend to get your attention to the fact that this part of the AT is no walk in the park with resupply stations, water fountains, flush toilets and.....showers......omg....showers....that's as off as flush toilets and trailside resupply(I don't want to hear it about MC and NOC, ok?)....

And really, how much wilderness backpacking experience could anyone have thought the two of you possessed when you inquired about resupply on a 3 day hike. Were you going to slack pack it?

[Tenderfoot752]

LOL, ok we're going to get along fine! Obviously with the questions I asked, it's reasonable to "assume" we've had no experience. These questions were asked because of the research I'd done to THAT point in time. So, because I don't know one point of the AT from the other, meaning different trail names and difficulty of different sections, I'd read that in some sections there were re-supply points, and that some shelter areas had very rudimentary privies, SO I was just asking about this particular section of trail based on previously read info. But, the info you gave was taken seriously. Thanks for that, and no hard feelings!

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[ScareBear]

None taken.

You will find that for a 4 day/3night hike in GA, NC or TN on the AT, you won't need, nor likely have, the opportunity for a resupply. Bring your food. On that topic...many hikers go with dehy meals. I do on the AT. My preference is Backpacker Pantry. Many folks swear by Mountain House, and I concede they fall in my 2nd place. Personally, I cannot stand the chemical/salt taste in the other brands, especially AlpineAire.....yuuuuuuuck. Many folks bring a canister stove or an alcohol stove, since all that you will do with dehy is boil water. Best advice on food? If you are going dehy be sure to spring for a titanium, polished bowl, LONG HANDLED spoon to dig the food out of the corners of the dehy bag. Your cook kit will then only consist of your stove choice, pot, fuel and windscreen. I also bring high-fat add-ins such as olive oil and peanut butter. Lunch is almost always a trail bar and a small disposable cup of peanut butter....dip and go....breakfast for me is blueberry vanilla granola with Nido and hot water.

You will need a way to purify/filter your water. The cheapest, lightest and simplest are purification tabs. Many AT'ers swear by the Sawyer Point One filter. I am beginning to lean that way myself. Currently I have the FirstNeedXLElite, which is a real purifier that deals with viruses and other bad bugs that filters don't. Total overkill for the vast majority of the AT and a brick at a whole pound, but I also hike/snowshoe/ski in areas out west that beg the use of the purifier. Same with Mexico excursions. Just sayin.

Most shelters have a rudimentary crapper that is essentially a stool on a plywood platform that deposits your crap onto an ever-growing pile of crap directly under the stool. Throw some duff on your crap and call it good. Try not to pee in the crapper. I know, counter-intuitive....but this isn't a vault or pit crapper. Ask a trail maintainer what happens to all that crap.....just sayin....

Please forget the notion of a shower during any hike of a week or less. You won't notice it after day 3. Everyone else will by day 5. Just sayin...

If you desire to clean up, bring baby wipes. Or Anti-Monkey Butt wipes. No, I am not kidding....

Speaking of crap, if you can't make it to a privy, then you need to dig a cathole, crap in it, cover your crap and pack out your nasty TP. Seriously. Pack. It. Out. Don't ever crap within 200 feet of a water source or 100 feet from either side of the trail. Don't burn your TP. Seriously. Don't. Burn. It.

Hiking poles. You may want to try them out....

Good luck! Welcome to the AT! It is a little bit more than what you thought, even if the amenities are far less than you imagined. Far far far far far far far less....

[Siestita]

"There was no way for you to know that I'm a 7 yr veteran of the USMC and have had my boots on several harsh "hikes". My gf is a 4 yr veteran of the USAF, so she's not exactly ignorant of what we may be facing either. I appreciate your input, but as stated, I'm asking these questions because we've never hiked HERE before. Because we're admittedly "newbies" to the AT, please don't assume we're 2 yuppies from the city looking to hug a couple trees..."

You and your girlfriend will probably find recreational backpacking to be much easier and more enjoyable than some strenuous experiences were that you had during your military service.. But, it can take a while to learn how to thoroughly enjoy this hobby. As your research has undoubtedly already indicated, equipment that is designed to use for camping from a vehicle is often, due to its weight, less than ideal for backpacking use. And, in the past some gear that the military has had its members haul into the woods has been much heavier than what most recreational backpackers now carry. Many of us who post here are less youthful than you and your girlfriend still are; you are both still in your 40s and in good shape. A great any. perhaps most, recreational backpackers now try to "hike smart" and keep their pack weights reasonably low.

Enjoy both your ongoing research and your Standing Indian hike! And, if you've not already seen them you may find these two web sites helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8aVkbvK57M&t=2s


http://www.cleverhiker.com/lightweight-gear-basics

[bigcranky]

Because of that one response in particular, I may re-evaluate our route after some more research.

I think your route is fine. Yes, there are a couple of long climbs, but they are well graded (except for the rock scramble the last 1/4 miles of Albert Mtn, but that's just plain fun). You'll be carrying a lot less stuff, which also makes it easier. If you can start in the morning, this makes a lovely 2-night hike. There is parking at a hiker parking area near Standing Indian Campground, and the trail through the campground to the Kimsey Creek Trail is well marked.