Stupid Light
http://andrewskurka.com/2012/stupid-...ght-or-better/
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That's been discussed here many times. There's a tipping point where further reductions in gear for the sake of a lighter pack have a negative impact. Discovering that point is an individual thing and takes time on the trail. It's not uncommon to see experienced hikers reach a point where they begin to add an item or two back to their packs, or trade uber-light gear for something a bit more substantial that functions better.
“He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” –Socrates
I agree... Most experienced hikers know where they can cut weight. I think the point is to educate new hikers to understand that one persons base weight is not necessarily another's.
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negative impact..... like losing your life?
Sure, it could be something that extreme, or it could simply be a very uncomfortable night. The point is, there are diminishing returns and eventually untoward consequences for continually trying to get lighter.Originally Posted by RockDoc
“He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” –Socrates
Some have gone to tiny tents but found them to work well only inside the house
small tent.jpg
Ask yourself, though: have you ever heard a complaint out of someone who lost their life by going stupid light?
Hate useless weight.
Love extra weight that has great benefit. Pretty simple
We've talked about this before as that was a great article with a lot of good points. Most people in the UL comunity, after gaining experience, slowly moved into lighter and lighter gear seeing what worked and what didn't in a safe manner. For many this still means carrying the necessary gear to deal with any likely conditions encountered while staying warm, dry, and safe.
The problem often seen, especially in places like the AT is hikers without that experience try to jump straight into UL without understanding the tradeoffs and skills required. This manifests itself in an unsafe manner where they make the choice to leave essential gear behind in order to be "UltraLight" when all they are doing is being what some call "Stupid Light". For many observers, it looks like they have a death wish. This really just gives UL a bad rep even though it has nothing to do with being UL. Over the years, people have posted here about seeing people leave rain gear behind, mailing sleeping bags home, carrying no shelter, etc. just to save weight as they are counting on current conditions to last for the next several weeks or months. Of course it often bit them in the behind and they suddenly are demanding space in full shelters like they have a right to a spot since they don't have a tent, finding themselves and all their gear soaked and starting to experience hypothermia, borrowing gear from others that they couldn't be bothered to carry for themselves since it weighed too much, etc.
Saving weight for the sake of saving weight is pointless if you find yourself doing something unsafe or at the very least find yourself very uncomfortable. I remember a guy who said if you didn't find yourself having to do exercises at night to stay warm, at least once during a trip, you were carrying too many clothing layers or too heavy a sleeping bag. Yeah, even I thought that was a bit too extreme.
Last edited by Miner; 02-04-2017 at 21:08.
At least a couple of comments have talked about inexperienced hikers making this mistake. For me the important message is that this is an issue for everyone to think about. Skurka's is hardly a novice and i applaud him for highlighting his own mistakes. Don't think that your experience makes you immune. I made the bone head decision to take a Styrofoam cup for coffee. It was crushed before I even got to the trail head.
I Back when I was in boyscouts I used to bring a 3 D-Cell Maglight on campouts.
Boy was that a stupid light.
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
If I keep shrinking my merino clothing in the hastened to get dry too hot dryer and losing wt that might fit me.
We've talked about this before as that was a great article with a lot of good points. Most people in the UL comunity, after gaining experience, slowly moved into lighter and lighter gear seeing what worked and what didn't in a safe manner. For many this still means carrying the necessary gear to deal with any likely conditions encountered while staying warm, dry, and safe.
The problem often seen, especially in places like the AT is hikers without that experience try to jump straight into UL without understanding the tradeoffs and skills required. This manifests itself in an unsafe manner where they make the choice to leave essential gear behind in order to be "UltraLight" when all they are doing is being what some call "Stupid Light". For many observers, it looks like they have a death wish. This really just gives UL a bad rep even though it has nothing to do with being UL. Over the years, people have posted here about seeing people leave rain gear behind, mailing sleeping bags home, carrying no shelter, etc. just to save weight as they are counting on current conditions to last for the next several weeks or months. Of course it often bit them in the behind and they suddenly are demanding space in full shelters like they have a right to a spot since they don't have a tent, finding themselves and all their gear soaked and starting to experience hypothermia, borrowing gear from others that they couldn't be bothered to carry for themselves since it weighed too much, etc.
Saving weight for the sake of saving weight is pointless if you find yourself doing something unsafe or at the very least find yourself very uncomfortable. I remember a guy who said if you didn't find yourself having to do exercises at night to stay warm, at least once during a trip, you were carrying too many clothing layers or too heavy a sleeping bag. Yeah, even I thought that was a bit too extreme.
This ^^^....
I have to wonder how many actually read the article, before offering up their version of stupid light.
Anyone that doesnt bring required gear is stupid, regardless of wt.
As I recall, Skurkas examples are not of being unsafe or unskilled.....that is something anti-ULers attempt to impart on the term. But of being less effective.
Beat to death 5 years ago
Last edited by MuddyWaters; 02-05-2017 at 00:15.
Ouch
My wife having washed many times my merino Tees also washed my Possum Down/Merino hat.
I had to sell my 15 year old cat to buy that one. Let's say that it isn't what it used to be. (the hat not the cat)
Actually, he talked about everything we mentioned above: being unsafe, compromising comfort and being less efficient. The main point was to not be just focused on hitting arbitrary weights and categories, but focusing on what is efficient for the task at hand. Carrying a light pack is part of that, but so is carrying adequate gear for the conditions. One of his examples was the lack of rain pants lead to hypotheria conditions that requires stopping and setting up his shelter instead of continuing to hike which obviously was very inefficient for the 6oz weight savings. But yes, most of his other examples were less about safety and more about the inefficiency of not bringing something to save a few ounces.
Last edited by Miner; 02-05-2017 at 00:54.
What Skurkas said is nothing that has not been said many times before. The term "stupid light" may be a poor choice in words because someone could be carrying 50 pounds but still packing stupid. On the flip side, someone could be carrying a 2-pound base weight but still more prepared than most thru-hikers.
The real factor is how experience is the hiker and knowing the area he/she is hiking. There are plenty of hikers who have hiked through the same areas, at the same time as Skurkas. Some hikers I'm sure did not always have as much bug protection but still made due. It can be a trade-off between carrying a little extra for those bad areas or just dealing with it. Most hikers will not die of mosquitoes bites. Still, the half-a-pint of blood donated to the mosquito foundation may not be something everyone is willing to donate in order to travel with less weight. Or an experienced hiker might know how to use what he/she has to resolve the nauseant bug problem. It all depends on the hikers.
Wolf
His focus was that he lost hours of hiking time sitting out rain in shelter.
I would suggest that staying out of cold rain.....is a far safer alternative than bringing gear to hike in it.
I Back when I was in boyscouts I used to bring a 3 D-Cell Maglight on campouts.
Boy was that a stupid light.
Very good...
Reminds me how I spent something like $150 for a headlamp (years ago....) that I can better now for about $15.
Stupid Light to me means having to alter your backpacking trip in any way to compensate for inadequate gear. I see it occasionally on my trips---A guy in a small tarp gets covered in wind-blown snow and wants to bail. A woman using a cold sleeping pad at 10F and has to cut her trip short and get out.
A guy didn't bring a warm enough sleeping bag and leaves the next day. A cold snap in the mountains reaches 0F and a guy only brought a bivy sack for shelter and so the only warm place on the mountain at 5:30pn dusk is inside his bivy sack and he's cocooned and imprisoned for the next 16 hours (see pic from winter, 2005)---
And then I see backpackers who carry inadequate shelters for conditions on hand, or they set up at an exposed spot in good conditions and conditions change horribly at 3am. For me a good backpacking shelter should perform at any location and keep you warm and alive, short of lightning strikes or falling trees or tornadoes or obvious flood plains.
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