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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by imscotty View Post
    I get the feeling that the whole Scott Jurek Baxter Peak incident is still burning in the back of Bissell's mind.
    Not sure how many days a year you spend on the summit of Katahdin, so you might not know what it is like up there when a group of ******** decides that their need to feel special is more important than respecting the others gather there and the mountain itself. Jurek wasn't the problem, he was a problem. He, combined with all the other folks who are a problem created the problem. Until the community as a whole and as individuals comes to terms with that there is little hope of a resolution.
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  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by imscotty View Post
    The real problem won't be people who grab a permit and then don't use it. The real problem will be people who use a permit who do not deserve one (Example: Section hiker permits are all used up, so they claim they are a thru-hiker (or visa-versa)). There is no way to verify anyone's claim to a permit.
    The rules specifically state that each hiker "self determines" their category. Lack of verification apparently is not an oversight but is actually by design. If one category is full then a hiker only needs to determine they are in another category. The rules allow that as I read them. So the categories serve no purpose as far as I can tell. It is the total number of people who "self determine" themselves to be in a particular category. There do not appear to be restrictions on "self determining" your category except that you have to do so in person.

    I do realize that common sense would lead one to believe the limits apply to where you have been or plan to go on a long distance hike, but if you read them carefully that is not what they say at all. In fact, I can't tell that any hiking is even required! Very strange.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by imscotty View Post
    The real problem won't be people who grab a permit and then don't use it. The real problem will be people who use a permit who do not deserve one (Example: Section hiker permits are all used up, so they claim they are a thru-hiker (or visa-versa)). There is no way to verify anyone's claim to a permit.
    This is only.a problem if you believe thruhikers deserve special treatment. The allocations are simply #s to show that this isnt a reduction. BSP could likely not care less if AT hiker is a nobo, flipflop, or section hiker. They are capping usage because it demands their resources, and ATC did nothing to reduce #s, they just tried to spread it out. BSP is saying...more hikers spread out, still demand more resources. Duh. More..is..more.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 02-02-2017 at 16:56.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    This is only.a problem if you believe thruhikers derserve special treatment.
    This is one of those times when a marketplace works. If you determine there is a lack of resources then you need to find out where the casual demand is, where the serious demand is, and who only wants some because it's free. So they could auction off permits. Before someone complains I'd like to point out that in all likelihood it would not cost you much at all compared to the expense of a thru hike. You'd simply be outbidding those in the "like to have one for free but it's not that important to me" category. If they continue to try and treat casual demand people and "I really want to hike this section of trail" demand people the same, there will be a misallocation of the available resources.

    And naturally, I'd expect that money raised from auctioning off LD hiker permits should all go to maintaining the park resources used (or abused) by LD hikers.

  5. #65

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    No the park does care if they are bunched up. It leads to noise and that is a major concern of the park. As well as, groups do not present a vision of solitude, another concern. There's an excerpt in the minutes covering remarks the AG (1/3 of the Authority) gave in a discussion concerning establishment of a national park nearby. Managers are also concerned about the environment of the summit, it's fragile. Groups are an issue too in that they may reach a degradation point for a local environment. For instance, 2 people passing a spot every other day might be a problem over 10 days but 12 people on day not so good.
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  6. #66
    Registered User Huli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zed View Post
    I don't understand why they are issuing permits for southbound period. I was under the impression southbounders must reserve campsites and cannot use the Birches. Maybe I'm wrong.

    Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
    I am SoBo this year. When I spoke with the ranger they said I do need to make a reservation.

  7. #67
    Wanna-be hiker trash
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeGoldRush View Post
    This is one of those times when a marketplace works. If you determine there is a lack of resources then you need to find out where the casual demand is, where the serious demand is, and who only wants some because it's free. So they could auction off permits. Before someone complains I'd like to point out that in all likelihood it would not cost you much at all compared to the expense of a thru hike. You'd simply be outbidding those in the "like to have one for free but it's not that important to me" category. If they continue to try and treat casual demand people and "I really want to hike this section of trail" demand people the same, there will be a misallocation of the available resources.

    And naturally, I'd expect that money raised from auctioning off LD hiker permits should all go to maintaining the park resources used (or abused) by LD hikers.
    The flaw in that logic is thinking that money can somehow be a used as a proxy to determine someone's level of commitment when it is more accurately a measure of someone's disposable income. There are plenty of flat broke people who deeply wish to have the chance to hike the trail but can barely afford to as it is and this would just be putting farther out of their reach.

    More importantly, this sort of of suggestion is antithetical to the spirit of a trail that was built with the intention of being free to all. The both BSP and The A.T. were built largely because of the good will of people who freely give their time and money to support something they believe in. It would be a gross violation of the public trust to begin auctioning off the right to use a trail that was built on donations and volunteer work and would likely cause a devastating boycott by donors if implemented.
    Last edited by Sarcasm the elf; 02-02-2017 at 18:03.
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  8. #68
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    It would have been nice if someone would have thought to include the details a little closer to the start of this thread.

  9. #69
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    If this was any other trail, who cares where you end your thru-hike. Unless you are looking for something on your "I love me wall".

    Take the PCT...does it matter if you end at Ross Lake on the Canadian Border or the Monument 78?

    OTOH, Katahdin is one of the most iconic mountains in the United States. Of the trails I've done, it is by far the most scenic and breathtaking ending.

    Seems that it is perceived the ATC has not addressed the concerns of BSP. BSP is taking the policy into their own hands.

    Be interesting to see what happens in the next two or three seasons.
    Last edited by Mags; 02-02-2017 at 17:50.
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  10. #70

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    Yeah I see how you are understanding it Water Rat. I think you could be right about it in application as they said they color code them by year in the minutes and don't say anything about timed use during that year. So maybe a hiker can hold on to it and hike later. Having to physically go to the issue points, I looked at it like the hiker has arrived ready to hike the AT in the park. Practically, a SOBO is there anyway, but that might difficult for NOBO. Nearly all are on the trail in June already, not likely to make the trip. That will push Sectioners and flip-flops up to June-August. Definitely requiring a look at reservations for Fall hiking.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeGoldRush View Post
    This is one of those times when a marketplace works...
    In addition to agreeing with MuddyWaters' comments on this one...

    I don't think a system of auctioning permits to the highest bidder has any political chance of happening, specifically because of the "public" nature of the AT that MuddyWaters points out.

    However, at some future point, I can definitely see some sort of lottery system being created to handle the supply/demand like they do for those trying to get hiking permits in places like Yosemite and Grand Canyon.

  12. #72

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    We wouldn't be having this discussion if a certain person hadn't pushed them to move the northern terminus from Mt. Washington to Maine instead when they were building the trail.

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm the elf View Post
    The flaw in that logic is thinking that money can somehow be a used as a proxy to determine someone's level of commitment when it is more accurately a measure of someone's disposable income. There are plenty of flat broke people who deeply wish to have the chance to hike the trail but can barely afford to as it is and this would just be putting farther out of their reach.

    More importantly, this sort of of suggestion is antithetical to the spirit of a trail that was built with the intention of being free to all. The both BSP and The A.T. were built largely because of the good will of people who freely give their time and money to support something they believe in. It would be a gross violation of the public trust to begin auctioning off the right to use a trail that was built on donations and volunteer work and would likely cause a devastating boycott by donors if implemented.
    The trail is no longer free to all. It's available only to the first 3,150 LD hikers this year.

    What they have done is use your arrival date as the currency with which you buy access. So people will work hard to make sure they have the required currency. Show up on the wrong day and you cannot buy your "free" access. Show up on an allowable day and you are free to enter. I can make all the same statements you made about their currency of choice as you can about mine.

  14. #74
    Registered User Oventoasted's Avatar
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    Unhappy Baxter State Park Thru-hiker Limits

    Just saw this article pop up on my feed. http://baxterstateparkauthority.com/...unce_Final.pdf

    I BSPA is going to limit the amount of thru-hikers in 2017. They did put in a 10% increase from last years numbers but from 2015-2016 there was a 26% increase in thru-hikers. so there is a potential for hikers having to go around and wait outside the park till they open for a summit.

  15. #75
    Registered User slowcoastie's Avatar
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    Default sobo in 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by Oventoasted View Post
    Just saw this article pop up on my feed. http://baxterstateparkauthority.com/...unce_Final.pdf

    I BSPA is going to limit the amount of thru-hikers in 2017. They did put in a 10% increase from last years numbers but from 2015-2016 there was a 26% increase in thru-hikers. so there is a potential for hikers having to go around and wait outside the park till they open for a summit.
    well that seals the deal for me sobo in 2018 staring in early june, black flies and all…yippee, at least they don't close springer and I'am from western NC so ill be near home when i finish. ( fingers and toes crossed )

  16. #76

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    can someone provide the actual link for the registration not just for info for registration. I can not find the actual registration link for BSP. Thanks

  17. #77
    Registered User Oventoasted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phlashlite View Post
    can someone provide the actual link for the registration not just for info for registration. I can not find the actual registration link for BSP. Thanks
    It wont be up till June. im pretty sure it will crash their little site when it does open up.

  18. #78
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    Registrations will not be available online. According to the press release ALL AT permits MUST be obtained IN PERSON.
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  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by slowcoastie View Post
    well that seals the deal for me sobo in 2018 staring in early june, black flies and all…yippee, at least they don't close springer and I'am from western NC so ill be near home when i finish. ( fingers and toes crossed )
    I did a NOBO section mid June last year passing through the bubble of early June SOBO starters and have never seen a happier collection of folks finding out how hard hiking through ME can be. More used to the simmering resentment and thousand yard stares of NOBOs nearing the end of the trail I was really struck by all the smiles I saw. Bugs or no I'd wager you'll have one on your face too!
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  20. #80
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    Can you pre purchase all permits ahead of time or only when you get there ? Cause I thinking IF I did the thru hike and couldnt finish it cause I was past the limit I would be MAD

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