Freestanding or Tarp tent?

[Wildberry]

I'd rather not sleep with mice and mosquitoes all over me in the shelter, so I was looking for a freestanding tent. There doesn't seem to be many options, and they are also quite heavy. Everyone online seems to love tarp tents. Which is more common on the trail? Which is better? Is it possible to set up a tarp tent in a shelter, maybe with a string attached to a rafter above? Thanks for any advice!!!

[salsi]

You should not be setting up any sort of tent in the shelters, the mice and mosquitoes are part of the shelter experience. You could look into using a bivy bag/sack which does not take up more space then your sleeping system.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthre...te-vs-ignorant

this thread talks a fair bit about setting up tents and whatnot in shelters

[soumodeler]

Please don't set up any kind of tent in a shelter. It is extremely rude, especially if other hikers show up and want to stay there.

I personally prefer a non freestanding tarp tent design, specifically a ZPacks Duplex. Also really like the Tarptent brand products and own one of their Notch tents. In a pinch I could set up either on a platform or other area that requires a freestanding tent. Not a big deal. The weight savings outweigh (haha) the small inconvenience of not being freestanding.

[Deadeye]

Beware of confusing tarp tents, whatever that may be, with the brand name TarpTent by Henry Shires. Henry makes some of the best lightweight tents on the market, including some very popular ones that can be set up freestanding, such as the Rainbow.

www.tarptent.com

You can use a bug net in the shelter, but as already noted, it's poor form to put up a tent in the shelter.

[Venchka]

Trekking pole supported tents aren't necessarily lighter than freestanding tents when you add in the weight of the hiking sticks.
No tent is free staying. They all need to be firmly anchored.
I've owned two of each type. They all worked just fine. Neither style had any advantage over the other.
Wayne


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[moldy]

I don't the OP is thinking about erecting a tent in a shelter, he's just telling us why he wants a tent. The majority of thru hikers use a tent as opposed to a tarp. A tent with a floor, rain fly and a bug screen are the main reason for chosing a tent over a tarp. Now, tarps are cheaper and lighter but it's not worth the weight advantage over the comfort dis advantage. If you get a tent be sure to get one that is tall enough that you can sit upright in and has a small covered area outside that you can cook in when it's raining.

[Wyoming]

I have a z-pack super light tent which is sort of a tarp style - it is single wall with a floor so technically not a tarp. It is very light but requires a lot of stakes and my hiking poles to set up.

There is no doubt in my mind that the first person to design a free standing tent at the same or almost identical weight will put all of the tarp tent folks out of business.

The great advantage of a freestanding tent is the ease of setup. They are up right in nothing flat. Tarp style tents are much harder to set up properly and frequently you set and pull and reset stakes trying to get the tent tight on sloping or uneven ground. I a high wind the tent becomes loose and/or the stakes pull out. I had my tent blown completely down several times. If you are on sand or on rock you have a problem. Last summer the folks I was hiking, with who had tents similar to mine, and I had a running bitch session about how hard they were to get set up right.

[salsi]

I don't the OP is thinking about erecting a tent in a shelter, he's just telling us why he wants a tent. The majority of thru hikers use a tent as opposed to a tarp. A tent with a floor, rain fly and a bug screen are the main reason for chosing a tent over a tarp. Now, tarps are cheaper and lighter but it's not worth the weight advantage over the comfort dis advantage. If you get a tent be sure to get one that is tall enough that you can sit upright in and has a small covered area outside that you can cook in when it's raining.

He asks about setting up a tarptent in a shelter which is why I responded how I did, getting a tent with a larger vestibule is great even if it adds a few ounces of weight, highly recommend it when looking for a tent to look for size of vestibule youll appreciate it so much on a rainy or misty day.

[Slo-go'en]

I don't know if free standing tents are any easier to set up then other tents, but free standing do have the advantage that if you don't like where you put it, it's easy to lift up and move. Also, if you make it up to New England where tent platforms are common, free standing are easier to deal with in that situation.

The disadvantage is free standing tents are a little heavier then non-free standing (discounting the weight of hiking poles, since you maybe using poles anyway regardless of the type of tent you have, and they are being used while hiking and not carried on your back). It is also possible to beak or loose a tent pole, which can be trouble.

Most free standing tents are double walled, in that they have a inner mosquito net and an outer water proof shell. That can reduce condensation issues which can be a problem with single wall, non-free standing tents. It also possible to use that inner net as a bug bivy in a shelter, so long as you don't use the frame which takes up extra space.

One last note, if using a free standing tent, you still have to stake it down or put something heavy in it if your not in the tent, so a gust of wind can't pick it up and move it - or maybe blow it off a cliff or into a pond (but you shouldn't be camped that close to either in any case).

[4eyedbuzzard]

If you plan on spending a lot of nights in shelters as well as your tent and are worried about bugs and such, you could just carry a mosquito net and some extra line and set it up while not encroaching on other's space. Like this 2.9 oz one http://www.seatosummit.com/product/?...=0&o2=0&o3=131 Put some rocks in the corners to keep it in place after you get in. $50 and <3oz and problem solved.

I agree with others here that a freestanding has it's advantages (with a slight weight penalty), but with a little practice, ingenuity, and some good stakes you can always rig a tarp or non-freestanding tent to be pretty weatherproof, even on a platform, many of which have tie down points - like this. Note the tie down rings on the side of the platform and use of the big rock and tree as tie points. Part of hiking should be practicing a bit of woodcraft from time to time.

SANY1067.JPG

[MtDoraDave]

I agree it's poor form to set up a tent inside a shelter. Choose one or the other... why invite mice to chew their way into your tent by setting it up in their home?

I digress. There are dozens of "freestanding" tents and perhaps a dozen popular ones people recommend around here. There are similar numbers of popular Tarp tents people will recommend. Lightheart Gear, Zpacks, Tarptent are a few of the most popular brands I see mentioned. I'm an owner of one of Henry Shires' Tarptents, and once familiar with it, they set up in under 2 minutes, sometimes under 1 minute. I use trekking poles, so why carry the weight of tent poles, too?

A trekking pole can break or be lost. Yep. In which case a stick can be used or the tent can be tied off to a tree instead. With a "freestanding" tent, a pole can fail also, and it may be more difficult to fashion a stick or tree to help hold it up.

On an overnight hike I did preparing for my first section of the AT, I tried sleeping under a tarp. I couldn't do it. The fear of bugs and other critters kept me awake almost all night. It's amazing what a few microns of material between me and the critters does for my feeling (illusion?) of safety/ security.

Whether freestanding, trekking pole supported, single wall or double wall, the better it's ventilated, the less condensation you'll get inside.

[ScareBear]

There are advantages to freestanding. The biggest advantage is ease of set up in the dark and/or stormy. Along with double walls. With my BA FCUL3, you can set it up fly-first in the rain, and then erect your tent underneath the fly so that your tent is nice and dry...YMMV

[soumodeler]

There are advantages to freestanding. The biggest advantage is ease of set up in the dark and/or stormy. Along with double walls. With my BA FCUL3, you can set it up fly-first in the rain, and then erect your tent underneath the fly so that your tent is nice and dry...YMMV

Several of the Tarptent models offer the exact same functionality.

[Leo L.]

...
With a "freestanding" tent, a pole can fail also, and it may be more difficult to fashion a stick or tree to help hold it up...

Since they were available (35yrs or so), I've used freestanding tents exclusively.
I love the easy setup and wider choice of spot selection. In low wind I hardly stake it down at all.
Downside is a maybe heavier load.
If a pole breaks (I had this happen only once over the 3 decades) in my old Salewa thent there was a repair sleeve added, and repairing the pole was done in a few minutes.

My new MSR Hubba Hubba NX doesn't have such a repair sleeve and I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable for this exact case, especially because the one point where the MSR might break most likely is the joint of the three poles sections, which is a custom machined Aluminium piece you couldn't field repair at all.

So yes, there are downsides for freestanding tents - but for me, the advantages are more important.
It might depend on the typical environment you're hiking in. AT seems to be full of trees and soft soil, so tarp-style and hammock-style would work great.
Here in the Alps, no camping allowed below treeline, so no hammocks and no tarp-styles will be seen. Same in the desert (OK, hardly any tent at all in the desert).

[ScareBear]

Repair sleeves are easily available....

http://www.backcountry.com/msr-pole-...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Cheyou]

Repair sleeves are easily available....

http://www.backcountry.com/msr-pole-...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds

So so you have one in your pack? ;0)

Thom

[Leo L.]

Repair sleeves are easily available....

Will get one soon, thanks.

But while at the old Salewa the poles were three single poles at which any break at any point could be repaired by a repair sleeve, at the MSR only some of several possible breaks could be repaired by this.
Mybe as an engineer that is drilled to design things in a way that they'll never break I'm a bit paranoid <G> but I'm a bit afraid that the special thre-ways joint at the MSR poles could break - and then you couldn't help yourself by any means.

To be clear - I like the MSR and its the tent of my choice nowadays, and am sure hardly any natural event will break it.
But in real life, many things can happen. What if you go out in the night and comíng back stumble over the tent in the dark and make a really heavy fall on it. Or similar.

[Venchka]

...With my BA FCUL3, you can set it up fly-first in the rain, and then erect your tent underneath the fly so that your tent is nice and dry...YMMV

All of Henry Shire's TarpTent products and every Hillebrg tent are set up fly first with inner attached. A dry interior every time.
Henry sells extra poles that make several of his tents freestanding. He also sells mostly solid wall inner tents for protection from wind, sand, snow, rain, etc.
You have to shop carefully. There are many options.
Wayne



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[ScareBear]

So so you have one in your pack? ;0)

Thom

I have the one that came with my BA in the stake bag where it came from the factory...