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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareBear View Post
    I still didn't see any alternative to cowboying it when it rains? You are going to need to factor in at least a tarp, line and maybe stakes. Or a bivy.

    Sure, everyone can nitpick your list with suggestions to lighten your load. It's what we do...

    That said, there is always a financial cost to lightening your load. But, let's look at some things that will lighten it and not cost a ton...
    Jetboil-lose it. Go with a lighter(3oz or less) burner and a 4 ounce or less pot. If you hate to clean, get anodized aluminum. Its also a buttload cheaper than titanium, which is a luxury not a necessity. New burner and pot=$20-50, weight savings 10 ounces...
    Retro 0 degree bag- Something is wrong here. 3 pounds for a 0 degree down bag is about as light as it gets with modern bags, unless you are going to spend more than $700!!!! Go weigh that bag and check it's rating again. No REI down bag EVER was rated at 0 degrees and only weighed 3 pounds! Go with a lighter down bag at 20 degrees rating. That will be around 2 pounds. I know this is a big expenditure, but it will pay off in comfort and weight savings. No "vintage" bag is going to perform nearly as well as a modern bag. $150-200, but around a TWO POUND weight savings...over a real vintage 0 degree bag, which should weigh in at no less than 4 and more likely 5 pounds! For comparison, a new Western Mountaineering 0 degree down bag(widely regarded as the best light down 0 degree bag) weighs in at 43 ounces and costs 600 bucks! So, that's kinda how I know your weight or temp rating is way wrong on your REI vintage sleeping bag!

    I know you want to rock your vintage x-frame pack. But, looking cool and being cool are two very different things. There is nothing cool about schlepping a ridiculously out-of-date and way-too-heavy pack for a few thousand miles. You can get a GraniteGear VC60 for $160 bucks on sale right now and save yourself 2 to 3 POUNDS.

    So, just there, I've saved you 5 pounds or so and you only spent $350 bucks. My personal target is no more than 10 bucks per ounce of weight saved. I just saved you 90 ounces for $350. It doesn't get any better/cheaper than that!!!!! Trust me, that will be the BEST $350 you have EVER spent. Unless you've been to Amsterdam. YMMV...just sayin...
    I'll consider that. The reí bag definitely weighs 3 pounds and I definitely wouldn't want to be in 0 degree weather with it. As far as the pack goes, you know how if you load a pack wrong it pulls you back and feels much heavier? Well I think the way my pack sits it makes up for it's weight as it makes carrying heavy loads easy while I would imagine a ul pack would make carrying 2 gallons of water a living hell, but then again I could be very wrong.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikingjim View Post
    I agree with scarebear that you should recheck some of those weights. What vintage external frame pack weighs just over 4 lbs?
    If your thermarest mat is actually 12.9 oz, it's probably not very warm. The only ones that would be that light and somewhat warm would be something new and expensive (eg: a small xlite)
    Generally you don't need expensive clothes, but upgrading your core items are worth considering

    You don't NEED to get a more efficient sleeping bag, etc, but if you're hiking for months it isn't a bad idea if the cost isn't huge
    I got the thermarest foam pad that accordions out, it's kept me warm so far

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by garlic08 View Post
    You can get Tyvek by asking to raid the dumpster at construction sites.

    I hiked the PCT and many other trails without a stove. I think it's an excellent alternative.

    I agree with others that an investment in a better pack and bag is a good idea. Keep an eye out for sales. The Marmot Helium sometimes goes for the mid-$200s. Gossamer Gear packs sometimes sell for under $100. My entire PCT kit cost under $800 and weighed less than ten pounds, including a new Tarptent, 15 degree Marmot down bag, and a GG pack that weighed less than a pound.

    The bag cost, when amortized over hundreds of future nights, is almost nil. And having to bail out to town one time to weather a storm could cost more than a decent bag. When I hiked the AT, my Helium bag allowed me to hike Smoky Mountain NP all alone in a late spring blizzard (while hoards bailed out to the expensive town of Gatlinburg TN), an experience I'll never forget, and only made possible by a dry 15 degree down bag.

    Your writing skills seem exemplary. You've probably done well in school, and best wishes on the PCT.
    Well if you did it I'll try it, I'll ditch my stove and see how i feel, that's how I started backpacking anyways, peanut butter sandwiches and almonds.

    I'll definitely watch out for sales, because less than 800 sounds manageable for me.

    Yea honors and AP classes all of high school to get to the end to realize I didn't want to go to college (at least not yet) thank you for the advice I'll definitely look into some stuff, I might just try it with the setup i have at the moment because I can always trade things out on the trail right?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puddle sleeper View Post


    I'm going northbound, when I say summer I mean spring and summer I was just too lazy to type, and I used the solar charger but it was in the sierras in late fall and my phone was so cold it wasn't charging until I warmed it up in my pocket at that point I gave up and hiked out (you know how cold does that too batteries) and the total was like 15 pounds I believe but that's missing a few key items, I'm really considering ditching my stove, I don't get tired of food easy and really hate cleaning the pot
    Test that charger first. If you're thinking like me, I used to think I would secure it to my pack with velcro or something and let it do its thing while I'm hiking. If your phone is as important to you as mine is to me, you DEFINITELY want to test this out on a test hike before you really have to rely on it. I take a bunch of spare batteries and a plug in cord to recharge when I get to town...

    If your weight is just 15 pounds, that's great. Especially at 18, you should be able to handle that. Carrying enough water is critical, obviously. I only did the 1st section, and on that section there's one 32.5 mile stretch - between scissors crossing and Warner Springs, with no reliable water source. (And at scissors, there's no water either, but it's an easy hitch to either Julian, or there's a CG closer in the opposite direction ).
    So, assuming you start from scissors with water, you have 32.5 miles dry. Maybe. There's LIKELY to be a very large cache 1/2 way. But, if you're strong enough to carry enough water not to have to rely on that cache - do that! ?
    Food: I'm with you. Cooking can be overrated, and if you don't mind eating cold food, that's a little less weight and one less thing to hassle with. I hiked with a guy that only eats peanut butter burritos...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jefals View Post
    Test that charger first. If you're thinking like me, I used to think I would secure it to my pack with velcro or something and let it do its thing while I'm hiking. If your phone is as important to you as mine is to me, you DEFINITELY want to test this out on a test hike before you really have to rely on it. I take a bunch of spare batteries and a plug in cord to recharge when I get to town...

    If your weight is just 15 pounds, that's great. Especially at 18, you should be able to handle that. Carrying enough water is critical, obviously. I only did the 1st section, and on that section there's one 32.5 mile stretch - between scissors crossing and Warner Springs, with no reliable water source. (And at scissors, there's no water either, but it's an easy hitch to either Julian, or there's a CG closer in the opposite direction ).
    So, assuming you start from scissors with water, you have 32.5 miles dry. Maybe. There's LIKELY to be a very large cache 1/2 way. But, if you're strong enough to carry enough water not to have to rely on that cache - do that! ?
    Food: I'm with you. Cooking can be overrated, and if you don't mind eating cold food, that's a little less weight and one less thing to hassle with. I hiked with a guy that only eats peanut butter burritos...
    Thank you for the positive reply man. Yea I've used my charger and it works but haven't hung it on my pack yet, I have a tiny external so the top of it is completely flat, I'm sure I could figure something out and if all else fails I'll charge when I take breaks

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puddle sleeper View Post
    Well if you did it I'll try it, I'll ditch my stove and see how i feel, that's how I started backpacking anyways, peanut butter sandwiches and almonds.

    I'll definitely watch out for sales, because less than 800 sounds manageable for me.

    Yea honors and AP classes all of high school to get to the end to realize I didn't want to go to college (at least not yet) thank you for the advice I'll definitely look into some stuff, I might just try it with the setup i have at the moment because I can always trade things out on the trail right?
    I took seven years to get my BS degree, and the extra time was worth it in the life experiences I gained. I suspect you'll do much the same.

    Swapping gear as you go can get expensive, paying full price. Gear cost was a good share of my $5000 PCT budget. But I can't think of a better way to find what works on a thru hike than to take it on a thru hike, so the first one will by definition be more expensive.

    There are some threads here about stoveless hiking and some ideas on decent food to carry.
    "Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning

  7. #27
    CDT - 2013, PCT - 2009, AT - 1300 miles done burger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puddle sleeper View Post
    You're right I'll have more chances, it'll just be my last chance for a few years and I want to do things now. I actually a the chrome dome umbrella the bandana thing is for warmth, I'm debating leaving a beanie and just wrapping that thing around my head like the taliban to stay warm
    Um, I'm pretty sure that Shemaghs (or Keffiyehs, as they're also known) are used by more than just the Taliban. Oy.

  8. #28
    Registered User Miguelon's Avatar
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    Hey...

    Would that I were 18 and about to hike the PCT!

    Some ideas for you:

    A knife idea for you: Victorinox Signature. Pen, file, scissors, pen knife, tweezers. Can find used on ebay for $6 or 8 ish. cheesy review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSlKWjuhkIY&t=2s

    Stove idea: $1 or less. Buy a Fancy Feast Cat food container.... modify it to make an alcohol stove/esbit/coghlans camping fuel tablets.

    how to make the stove:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pajkt594Ruw

    how to make a windscreen out of a aluminum can.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPmHv1WlcXU

    I really like these containers. 20cc so just .67oz
    Mosquito Repellant. Dr. Bronners. Bleach-(10cc size bottle, backup water purification). Rubbing Alcohol 91% with Cotton Balls cut in half--Firestarter and Antiseptic. (Tweezers from Swiss Army knife used to fish out cotton balls.)
    New bottles picked up at mail drops.

    In drop down menu choose larger size.

    http://www.dutchwaregear.com/eye-dropper-bottles.html

    Instead of Paracord, I'd consider:

    http://www.dutchwaregear.com/dutch-wire.html
    or
    http://www.dutchwaregear.com/25-feet-of-dynaglide.html

    $ 7 Sit Pad

    http://www.dutchwaregear.com/folding-sit-pad.html

    If you are paying for shipping might as well get some other things at the same site.

    To augment the pad-- I would spend $18 to add another pad. Add some warmth and comfort.

    http://gossamergear.com/thinlight-backpacking-pads.html

    Don't know your size but.... check out the used gear on this site:

    http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthre...ar-Crown-VC-60

    Also so much information on youtube.

    Good luck to you,
    Miguelon

  9. #29

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    Columbia down jacket - 15oz
    Thermometer - 0.7oz
    Spork and knife - 0.7oz
    Darn tough socks (extra pair) - 2.9oz
    Extra underwear - 2.1oz
    Sawyer squeeze - 6.5oz
    Vintage reí zero degree bag - 48.6 oz
    Shamagh (giant middle eastern bandana) - 5.8oz
    Thermarest sleeping pad - 12.9oz
    Black diamond headlight - 3.0oz
    Chapstick - 0.3oz
    Compass - 0.8oz
    Suntactics solar charger - 7.5oz
    Fixed blade knife - 3.0oz
    Paracord - 3.2oz
    Camelback bladder - 6.7oz
    Vintage reí external frame pack - 67.3 oz
    Jetboil - 13.9oz
    Mountain hardware gloves - 7.1oz
    Colombia beanie - 4.8oz
    Helium ii - 6.5oz

    Only a few things that I would really look at upgrading if I was serious about walking the 2600 miles.

    Look at the low hanging fruit opportunities vs expense of upgrading to get started.
    Focus on your big 3 -
    Since your tent choice is a fly creek we can exclude that from your big 3 as a weight focus.

    Pack
    Sleeping bag
    Jetboil(only bc it weighs an oz more then your comfort system) - Why carry more weight to boil water then you carry to be comfortable at night? have you checked out zelph alc stoves? run about 12 bucks and weigh 3 oz . I can boil water pretty much as fast with a cat food can as you can with a jet boil

    Look on ebay daily. Zpacks items are always going up on there and as well as FB flea markets. I suggest to everyone that if you can afford zpacks product that it is worth it.

    Drop the camel back bladder, great way to get all your stuff wet. use smart water bottles and sawyer bladders for when you need to camel water.

    Down jacket sounds a little heavy, might be needed for cold desert nights - I am not familiar with PCT hiking (my gear list contributions thus far have been irrelevant to what trail you are on), but I would suggest looking at trying to shed some weight off that jacket if its not going to be needed very often.
    Trail Miles: 4,927.6
    AT Map 1: Complete 2013-2021
    Sheltowee Trace: Complete 2020-2023
    Pinhoti Trail: Complete 2023-2024
    Foothills Trail: 0.0
    AT Map 2: 279.4
    BMT: 52.7
    CDT: 85.4

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by burger View Post
    Um, I'm pretty sure that Shemaghs (or Keffiyehs, as they're also known) are used by more than just the Taliban. Oy.
    They definitely are, my grandmother was born in Iran don't worry I wasn't trying to be offensive just the image I was trying to paint involved using the taliban as an example.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguelon View Post
    Hey...

    Would that I were 18 and about to hike the PCT!

    Some ideas for you:

    A knife idea for you: Victorinox Signature. Pen, file, scissors, pen knife, tweezers. Can find used on ebay for $6 or 8 ish. cheesy review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSlKWjuhkIY&t=2s

    Stove idea: $1 or less. Buy a Fancy Feast Cat food container.... modify it to make an alcohol stove/esbit/coghlans camping fuel tablets.

    how to make the stove:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pajkt594Ruw

    how to make a windscreen out of a aluminum can.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPmHv1WlcXU

    I really like these containers. 20cc so just .67oz
    Mosquito Repellant. Dr. Bronners. Bleach-(10cc size bottle, backup water purification). Rubbing Alcohol 91% with Cotton Balls cut in half--Firestarter and Antiseptic. (Tweezers from Swiss Army knife used to fish out cotton balls.)
    New bottles picked up at mail drops.

    In drop down menu choose larger size.

    http://www.dutchwaregear.com/eye-dropper-bottles.html

    Instead of Paracord, I'd consider:

    http://www.dutchwaregear.com/dutch-wire.html
    or
    http://www.dutchwaregear.com/25-feet-of-dynaglide.html

    $ 7 Sit Pad

    http://www.dutchwaregear.com/folding-sit-pad.html

    If you are paying for shipping might as well get some other things at the same site.

    To augment the pad-- I would spend $18 to add another pad. Add some warmth and comfort.

    http://gossamergear.com/thinlight-backpacking-pads.html

    Don't know your size but.... check out the used gear on this site:

    http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthre...ar-Crown-VC-60

    Also so much information on youtube.

    Good luck to you,
    Miguelon
    Thank you for all the links wow! I'll check them out after work thank you

  12. #32
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    Default Not so lightweight pct gear list

    Oh yeah, didn't you ask about free tyvek? I don't know about free, but you can get it on amazon for under $8..

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit McCrae View Post
    Columbia down jacket - 15oz
    Thermometer - 0.7oz
    Spork and knife - 0.7oz
    Darn tough socks (extra pair) - 2.9oz
    Extra underwear - 2.1oz
    Sawyer squeeze - 6.5oz
    Vintage reí zero degree bag - 48.6 oz
    Shamagh (giant middle eastern bandana) - 5.8oz
    Thermarest sleeping pad - 12.9oz
    Black diamond headlight - 3.0oz
    Chapstick - 0.3oz
    Compass - 0.8oz
    Suntactics solar charger - 7.5oz
    Fixed blade knife - 3.0oz
    Paracord - 3.2oz
    Camelback bladder - 6.7oz
    Vintage reí external frame pack - 67.3 oz
    Jetboil - 13.9oz
    Mountain hardware gloves - 7.1oz
    Colombia beanie - 4.8oz
    Helium ii - 6.5oz

    Only a few things that I would really look at upgrading if I was serious about walking the 2600 miles.

    Look at the low hanging fruit opportunities vs expense of upgrading to get started.
    Focus on your big 3 -
    Since your tent choice is a fly creek we can exclude that from your big 3 as a weight focus.

    Pack
    Sleeping bag
    Jetboil(only bc it weighs an oz more then your comfort system) - Why carry more weight to boil water then you carry to be comfortable at night? have you checked out zelph alc stoves? run about 12 bucks and weigh 3 oz . I can boil water pretty much as fast with a cat food can as you can with a jet boil

    Look on ebay daily. Zpacks items are always going up on there and as well as FB flea markets. I suggest to everyone that if you can afford zpacks product that it is worth it.

    Drop the camel back bladder, great way to get all your stuff wet. use smart water bottles and sawyer bladders for when you need to camel water.

    Down jacket sounds a little heavy, might be needed for cold desert nights - I am not familiar with PCT hiking (my gear list contributions thus far have been irrelevant to what trail you are on), but I would suggest looking at trying to shed some weight off that jacket if its not going to be needed very often.
    Yea I'm ditching the jetboil, the zpacks arc blast looks intriguing to me. And I've used my camel back on every backing trip since sophomore year and I have yet to get my stuff wet (probably due to my ancient external frames design weirdly enough) and the jacket was a gift so my hand is forced, but it's also my only warming layer there 100 percent necessary, because my rain jacket is only a shell

  14. #34
    Registered User Tahoeturner's Avatar
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    Lots of great advice here. Personally, I have a thing about having clean socks. During my 2016 AT hike, putting on a clean pair almost every morning was a such a treat that I accepted the extra weight of four pair (one pair on my feet). Washing on the trail works only part-time; multiple raining days makes it pretty difficult to dry anything. Foot care should be a top priority.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puddle sleeper View Post
    I'll consider that. The reí bag definitely weighs 3 pounds and I definitely wouldn't want to be in 0 degree weather with it. As far as the pack goes, you know how if you load a pack wrong it pulls you back and feels much heavier? Well I think the way my pack sits it makes up for it's weight as it makes carrying heavy loads easy while I would imagine a ul pack would make carrying 2 gallons of water a living hell, but then again I could be very wrong.
    That REI bag is probably a 30 degree....you are going to need a new bag. Sorry.

    I know you like how the x-frame pack carries a heavy load. But, if you look at the physics of packs, you will see that it all comes down to the pack's ability to transfer the load/weight to the hip belt. The x-frame packs are the most efficient at doing this, for obvious reasons. But, that does NOT mean that UL packs are far worse. Just slightly not as efficient. Everyone raves about Zpacks ArcHaul and it is on my short list for big dollars for new gear. However, it obviously is not for everyone, or there would not be so many for sale used!! Do you know how to tell a good car model? By the lack of availability of used ones in the market(or their high resale price, i.e. Toyota)...so...take everyone's glowing rec's for anything with a grain of salt. If there is an unusual or disproportionately high rate of a certain item for sale in the used gear market, especially at low prices, its a good sign that the design isn't working out for many folks and that the cognitive dissonance is so high that they will part with a barely used item for far less than the purchase price. I think many people thought the ArcHaul was a cure-all for their issues with packs, and it really isn't. Its just a lightweight Cuben Fibre sack suspended on some carbon fibre rods that connect to the hip belt. Lightweight being the key for me. Also, it has a very unique design whereby you can actually alter the curve of the frame of the pack to keep it off of your back. Infinitely adjustable. That, and the weight, are the big selling points for me. Since you want the pack off your back, I'd say look for a used ArcBlast or ArcHaul on the used gear market. If that is too much money, there are old model packs that are new for sale. Right now you can get the 2014 50L Fusion by SixMoonDesigns for a Benjamin. Brand new from the manufacturer. No warranty, though... https://www.sixmoondesigns.com/collections/bargain-bin
    It takes some internet hunting and forum perusing to find the dealios...just sayin...

    You won't be carrying two gallons for very long. Two gallons weigh what? 16.6 pounds....unless you've got an ultralight pack with a load limit of 25 pounds, any internal frame pack will accept the load...Even for the very limited occasions when you have to carry a heavy load, you don't want an overbuilt overweight pack for all the other times....look at the big three thousand mile picture....

  16. #36
    Registered User egilbe's Avatar
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    Carrying a compass, but no mention of maps?

  17. #37
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    Plus, it is difficult to maneuver with an x-frame pack, especially in close quarters or dense brush.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareBear View Post
    That REI bag is probably a 30 degree....you are going to need a new bag. Sorry.

    I know you like how the x-frame pack carries a heavy load. But, if you look at the physics of packs, you will see that it all comes down to the pack's ability to transfer the load/weight to the hip belt. The x-frame packs are the most efficient at doing this, for obvious reasons. But, that does NOT mean that UL packs are far worse. Just slightly not as efficient. Everyone raves about Zpacks ArcHaul and it is on my short list for big dollars for new gear. However, it obviously is not for everyone, or there would not be so many for sale used!! Do you know how to tell a good car model? By the lack of availability of used ones in the market(or their high resale price, i.e. Toyota)...so...take everyone's glowing rec's for anything with a grain of salt. If there is an unusual or disproportionately high rate of a certain item for sale in the used gear market, especially at low prices, its a good sign that the design isn't working out for many folks and that the cognitive dissonance is so high that they will part with a barely used item for far less than the purchase price. I think many people thought the ArcHaul was a cure-all for their issues with packs, and it really isn't. Its just a lightweight Cuben Fibre sack suspended on some carbon fibre rods that connect to the hip belt. Lightweight being the key for me. Also, it has a very unique design whereby you can actually alter the curve of the frame of the pack to keep it off of your back. Infinitely adjustable. That, and the weight, are the big selling points for me. Since you want the pack off your back, I'd say look for a used ArcBlast or ArcHaul on the used gear market. If that is too much money, there are old model packs that are new for sale. Right now you can get the 2014 50L Fusion by SixMoonDesigns for a Benjamin. Brand new from the manufacturer. No warranty, though... https://www.sixmoondesigns.com/collections/bargain-bin
    It takes some internet hunting and forum perusing to find the dealios...just sayin...

    You won't be carrying two gallons for very long. Two gallons weigh what? 16.6 pounds....unless you've got an ultralight pack with a load limit of 25 pounds, any internal frame pack will accept the load...Even for the very limited occasions when you have to carry a heavy load, you don't want an overbuilt overweight pack for all the other times....look at the big three thousand mile picture....
    I'll reall consider getting that pack, 100 isn't bad. And my bag is definítly a 0 it says it on there, and I've been warm to pretty low temps in it so I think I'll be fine with it

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by egilbe View Post
    Carrying a compass, but no mention of maps?
    So far all I have is guthooks app, haven't got around to printing out maps

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareBear View Post
    That REI bag is probably a 30 degree....you are going to need a new bag. Sorry.

    I know you like how the x-frame pack carries a heavy load. But, if you look at the physics of packs, you will see that it all comes down to the pack's ability to transfer the load/weight to the hip belt. The x-frame packs are the most efficient at doing this, for obvious reasons. But, that does NOT mean that UL packs are far worse. Just slightly not as efficient. Everyone raves about Zpacks ArcHaul and it is on my short list for big dollars for new gear. However, it obviously is not for everyone, or there would not be so many for sale used!! Do you know how to tell a good car model? By the lack of availability of used ones in the market(or their high resale price, i.e. Toyota)...so...take everyone's glowing rec's for anything with a grain of salt. If there is an unusual or disproportionately high rate of a certain item for sale in the used gear market, especially at low prices, its a good sign that the design isn't working out for many folks and that the cognitive dissonance is so high that they will part with a barely used item for far less than the purchase price. I think many people thought the ArcHaul was a cure-all for their issues with packs, and it really isn't. Its just a lightweight Cuben Fibre sack suspended on some carbon fibre rods that connect to the hip belt. Lightweight being the key for me. Also, it has a very unique design whereby you can actually alter the curve of the frame of the pack to keep it off of your back. Infinitely adjustable. That, and the weight, are the big selling points for me. Since you want the pack off your back, I'd say look for a used ArcBlast or ArcHaul on the used gear market. If that is too much money, there are old model packs that are new for sale. Right now you can get the 2014 50L Fusion by SixMoonDesigns for a Benjamin. Brand new from the manufacturer. No warranty, though... https://www.sixmoondesigns.com/collections/bargain-bin
    It takes some internet hunting and forum perusing to find the dealios...just sayin...

    You won't be carrying two gallons for very long. Two gallons weigh what? 16.6 pounds....unless you've got an ultralight pack with a load limit of 25 pounds, any internal frame pack will accept the load...Even for the very limited occasions when you have to carry a heavy load, you don't want an overbuilt overweight pack for all the other times....look at the big three thousand mile picture....
    Yea but that worries me that you care that there's no warranty, a good piece of gear shouldn't really need one, I will be destroyed long before my external frame haha

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