I'm NOT trying to be argumentative, I just don't understand what point you're trying to make.Originally Posted by Venchka
Last edited by Engine; 12-21-2016 at 11:38.
“He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” –Socrates
A stash of just in case emergency rations tucked away in my pack.
Wayne
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Eddie Valiant: "That lame-brain freeway idea could only be cooked up by a toon."
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Regarding food, every backpacker should study the plight of Steve Frazier---
THE RESCUE STORY OF STEVE FRAZIER
Steve planned a 5 day backpacking trip into Yosemite NP on Oct 28 2008. He hikes 20 miles in and sets up camp. A 3 day snowstorm dumps 2 feet of snow and he can't find the trail, " . . . effectively trapping him at that location." What does he do? Does he stumble and posthole for 5 miles and dies in a heap? Does he call 911? Does he strip naked and run screaming from camp? Naw, this is what Frazier does---
He spends the next 12 days hunkered down in his tent and making his last 2 days of food last 12. He finally gets spotted after missing his plane flight on Nov 9. This is a great story!
"I had to pull a Frazier" is now in my lexicon and has become my new winter mantra. It's how you survive being stuck in place---by hunkering in and waiting. 12 days seems excessive but he did it. In deep snow and during a series of blizzards the best place to be is inside your tent. Where else will you be warm and dry? Packing up and leaving in deep snow when the trail is gone and you're postholing a half mile in an hour is not and will never be as good as pulling a Frazier and sitting put. Hunkering in.
Hum, doesn't sound like he had snow shoes. Should be standard carry for a western trip, even in shoulder season, especially at elevation.
Did they charge him for the SAR?
Sorry, talk to text sometimes messes things up. It should have said NOT trying to be argumentative.
In one of my earlier posts above I mentioned the extra day of food, but it was buried in the message and probably easily missed.
“He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” –Socrates
It seems Frazier had the most important thing a hiker can carry with him...common sense.
“He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” –Socrates
That is a good story, thanks for sharing, Tipi. As much of a gram weenie as I am, I do carry just a bit more sustenance on winter trips. But I probably would have had to stretch one day of food to twelve...
Except he didnt check the weather forecast for the area...
Do we know that for sure?
“He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” –Socrates
No worries. I just hope I never get down to a 1 day ration of food. I make a pile of what I believe is X days worth of food. I always seem to have some left over. Most of my leftovers are no cooking required. Perfect for "pulling a Frazier".
Wayne
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Eddie Valiant: "That lame-brain freeway idea could only be cooked up by a toon."
https://wayne-ayearwithbigfootandbubba.blogspot.com
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I would think someone with common sense would take more food if a storm was forecasted. I know I would :-)
The point I was trying to make was related to the possibility of a jacked up forecast. Meteorologists get it badly wrong from time to time...think March 13, 1993.
“He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” –Socrates
The sliding and puncture protection are the two reasons I always say under. Nice advice!
Great Thread PinkEagles. I have picked up a few useful tips from a few folks.
Furlough
"Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen." Louis L’Amour
I can only speak from my experience, but when the temps are below zero, and I'm sleeping on the ground, not the snow, having my CCF pad on top of my inflatable provides for a comfortable night's sleep whereas putting my inflatable on top of my CCF leads to being miserable and cold.
I agree that R-values should be cumulative, but, there is definitely something more going on here.
The effectiveness or need of the CCF on top, may depend on the design of the inflatable.
The difference in warmth between CCF on top or bottom may not matter in less extreme cold conditions (like sleeping on snow vs. ground).
I have not noticed a critical difference in warmth when sleeping on the snow in a tent, but wow, sleeping on open frozen ground the difference was more than small.
I'm not lost. I'm exploring.
If we ever get a serious cold front this far south, we're planning a shakedown hike or two next month. I will test it both ways...now, I'm curious.
“He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” –Socrates
Exactly what I said. And of course we're talking about extreme cold, otherwise just a regular R4 inflatable works good enough as a stand-alone.
I think the reason the CCF works best on top is because these kind of pads are real insulators and keep in heat very well. Think of your foam pot cozy and how well it works. So, with the CCF on top we get good insulation quickly while the inflatable underneath offers the outstanding comfort we need for a good night's sleep. Both together provide both warmth and comfort---warmth being vital at 0F.
Here's my standard setup during cold winter trips---a Ridgerest Solar pad at 3.5R coupled when needed with my 4R Thermarest. The inflatable is super comfy and the Solar pad offers both in-tent sit-pad for cooking etc and offers more warmth in deep cold when placed on top of the inflatable, as mentioned.
Plus, when and if the inflatable pad dies in the field, the Solar pad can be doubled up and folded to offer 7R as a stand alone pad so the trip doesn't have to be cancelled.
Oh and let's not forget how a CCF pad offers full comfy reststops when thrown against the pack---
I thru hiked in 2015 started March 8th. Saw cold rain around hiawassee and snow in the Smokey's.
I took way too much cold gear at beginning. Top and bottom Patagonia thermal underwear, R2 fleece, 900 fill puffy, beanie, wool buff, gloves, rain jacket, and wind pants.
I'm considering thru hiking again next year and if I do I'm only taking fleece jacket, thermal top, beanie, wool buff, gloves, and obviously rain jacket.
The thermal, fleece, and rain jacket will keep your core plenty warm for this part of the country. Your legs will be radiating heat from hiking all day and so that need coverage. Head gear is your choosing but neccecary especially with your quilt. I had same quilt. The wool buff is very versatile and with a beanie will keep you covered. I had warm waterproof gloves which were a godsend especially in the morning and Smokey's. I also had waterproof socks that were amazing in the slush of melting snow but they obviously did the last more than a day and leaked. Once through the Smokey's, the cold is done for the most part. Held onto most of my winter gear until the shanny's although kinda overkill. Picked it back up in the whites.
I was out backpacking during that storm in 1993 and traversing the trail up to my North Carolina ridgetop tipi where luckily I had a woodstove. It was a tough situation but I got thru it okay and stayed warm and alive although dangit I tipped over my pee bucket in the middle of the night and splashed urine all over my door entrance floor. It was the best of times . . . etc. I also had a high nail in a tree limb by the tipi where I hung wet items to dry and the deep snow caused the trail under the limb to rise by two feet so when I rushed outside to get something in the middle of the night my forehead banged into this nail and gouged a hole in my forehead with some blood loss. I guess I actually poked open my third eye????? More study needed.
Actually, the point of this post is that the wee'tards (weathermen) get it wrong often and you just can't rely on their forecasts. Plus, on a backpacking trip longer than 5 days they WILL NOT have a forecast that is reliable. The best solution for long winter expedition trips is to carry a little radio and listen to the daily reports. If a big arctic Southeastern blast is coming (we had such a polar vortex in January 2014) they'll let you know the day before so you can find a place to "make your stand" and hunker in your tent for the duration.
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