Proposed pipe line

[pilgrimskywheel]

Director Digger Downs stated: "they did more than comment" with regard to the pipeline and I'd like to know specifically what they did, and what it cost in donated dollars. Because there's a disquieting trend on the AT currently where folks make grandiose claims to get donations and then don't deliver on them.

[colorado_rob]

Now there ya go, pilgrim! Except for your lead in, very well written post. My take is the ATC fought and "lost", but they tried, did they not? When someone fights (ie: spends) and loses, is it right to bad-mouth them, saying they squandered money and should not have fought to begin with? Sounds like Monday morning quarterbacking. We all do it, I suppose.

[pilgrimskywheel]

Now there ya go, pilgrim! Except for your lead in, very well written post. My take is the ATC fought and "lost", but they tried, did they not? When someone fights (ie: spends) and loses, is it right to bad-mouth them, saying they squandered money and should not have fought to begin with? Sounds like Monday morning quarterbacking. We all do it, I suppose.

I think it's time to bet on a winner.

[Ktaadn]

I think it's time to bet on a winner.

The winner being the companies that always receive approval to poison our air and water? Bet, being buy their stock? Considering most of my 401k is invested in the S&P 500, I guess I'm with you.

[gpburdelljr]

You seriously must want to stay ignorant. You do realize this pipeline is about 70 miles away from all those cool places that you listed. Have you even hiked or know this area or do you just manufacture outrage based on Huffington Post.

I never worry about the ignorant, because no matter how loud they yell their opinion will not count. The regulators deciding the issue will do so based on the law, and well reasoned environmental arguments, not ill informed rants.

[Alleghanian Orogeny]

If you would take 25% of the time you've used to key up inane mumbo-jumbo to instead try to gain an elementary understanding of what a natural gas pipeline is, what it is not, and how this one is proposed to cross the AT south of Rockfish Gap, you'd understand:

1) The gas pipeline is proposed to be bored beneath the AT via a 600' long tunnel.
2) No trench crossing the AT is required for the bore.
3) Even if the guys show up with chain saws to clear above the bore, they're there but briefly. Their work in no way "cuts" the AT.
4) Same for trenching if it were to be used rather than a bore--they move fast--trench, lay pipe, cover, compact, seed, mulch, and gone. A pipeline construction crew may not be within sight of the AT for more than a handful of days, and the trail would be totally usable the whole time. That's not "cutting" anything.

No, implying the ATC failed to defend Trail users' interests, thus allowing the Trail to be "cut in half" is more than a figure of speech. It's useless hysteria which makes genuinely informed conservationists, most of us actually grownups and not typing from our Mom's basement, cringe due to the bad light such absurdity shines on reasonable conservationist pursuits.

Why not take an hour or two to have a look at just how many pipeline crossings of the AT there currently are? I'll bet you'll be surprised. They're not as numerous as the +400 road crossings, but there are a lot of them--likely far more than most realize. That's how innocuous they typically are--plenty of users don't even know they're there.

AO

[Slo-go'en]

I went and found the maps for the proposed route of the pipeline. Looks like the it would actually cross the AT in two places, one near SR 635 and then near SR 42. This is not a particularly interesting section of trail, being between Parisburg and Roanoak.

I think the artist rendering of what it might look like is deceiving. Once the cut grows over with grass and brush, it will be hardly noticeable from a distance. Less so then a road would be. I also question the route they show. You sure can't tell much from the big, fat line they drew on the pdf maps to have any idea how it will actually go. You'd need accurate GPS waypoints to map it out on Google Earth.

There are already many power and pipeline right of ways crossing the AT in VA. I probably have a picture from each and every one of them, since they are one of the few places you can actually get a view. I think the bigger concern is not the pipeline, but the massive amount of fracking which will have to be done in WV to supply it with the gas.

We have our own fight here in NH about a power line to run the length of the state to bring HydroQuebec to markets in southern New England. Now we're talking not only of a clear cut, but massive 200 foot towers which can really be seen for a distance.

[Alleghanian Orogeny]

There is some crossover within this discussion where the OP originally linked a Huffington Post story about the Mountain Valley Pipeline and some participants, including myself, have been discussing the Atlantic Coast Pipeline. The former has a proposed route crossing the AT in the Pearisburg vicinity while the latter proposed route crosses near Reeds Gap, south of Rockfish Gap, close to Wintergreen. It is at the latter location that a bore is proposed at the AT crossing. I haven't yet studied any detailed maps nor the EIS for the Mountain Valley Pipeline, but the Huffington Post piece looks fairly familiar to one who avoids needlessly reactionary reading material implying the MVP would "cut right through" the AT.

AO

[rocketsocks]

I never worry about the ignorant, because no matter how loud they yell their opinion will not count. The regulators deciding the issue will do so based on the law, and well reasoned environmental arguments, not ill informed rants.

As a retired Journeyman Pipefitter...pretty much this^

[TexasBob]

Solar and wind are the least worst options

We have our own fight here in NH about a power line to run the length of the state to bring HydroQuebec to markets in southern New England. Now we're talking not only of a clear cut, but massive 200 foot towers which can really be seen for a distance.

Oil and gas move through pipelines, electricity moves through transmission lines. Nobody wants pipelines or transmission lines anywhere nearby but do want the energy they provide. The gas and electricity that powers your home arrived via pipelines and transmission lines that someone else probably objected to because they didn't want them anywhere near their property because it did not directly benefit them but did benefit somebody else far away. Just an observation of present day attitudes and realities not meant as an attack on you two.

[soilman]

Director Digger Downs stated: "they did more than comment" with regard to the pipeline and I'd like to know specifically what they did, and what it cost in donated dollars. Because there's a disquieting trend on the AT currently where folks make grandiose claims to get donations and then don't deliver on them.

How much did you contribute to the cause? Would you have preferred the ATC not do anything? Or are you upset that the ATC may have spent some money and were unsucessful? What about the successes the ATC has had over the years protecting the trail? Not too long ago they stopped a race track from being built adjacent to the trail in PA. Have you witnessed the new trail outside of Pearisburg? Do you know the history of Saddleback Mt and Mount Abraham in Me?

[Ktaadn]

Oil and gas move through pipelines, electricity moves through transmission lines. Nobody wants pipelines or transmission lines anywhere nearby but do want the energy they provide. The gas and electricity that powers your home arrived via pipelines and transmission lines that someone else probably objected to because they didn't want them anywhere near their property because it did not directly benefit them but did benefit somebody else far away. Just an observation of present day attitudes and realities not meant as an attack on you two.

I'm fully aware of how the lights work in my house, but lets take a step back and think about why they work that way. The government has put in place regulations that require builders to wire your home for the energy production and delivery that you mention. Your mortgage company(if you have one) also requires many of these things for your home to retain its value. Now imagine a world where the government instead required builders to install solar panels and a wind turbine on your roof? Maybe a large battery is buried in the backyard, geothermal HVAC system is under the home, and a solar water heater is installed? Do you see the need for everything that you mention disappearing? Can you imagine air and water not poisoned by the fossil fuel industry?

[colorado_rob]

... Now imagine a world where the government instead required builders to install solar panels and a wind turbine on your roof? Maybe a large battery is buried in the backyard, geothermal HVAC system is under the home, and a solar water heater is installed? Do you see the need for everything that you mention disappearing? Can you imagine air and water not poisoned by the fossil fuel industry?

Sometime, do a little research on how our air and water quality have changed in the last 40 years. It's remarkable, but sure, we can do better. Burying a large battery in your backyard? Yikes. Unnecessary and environmentally dangerous.

Anyway, those "government requirements" are here, at least in Colorado, in a manner of speaking. Our utility company is currently required to "buy" the energy we create, then sell it back to us at the same cost, meaning every KWH I generate on my roof, the utility company is required to "store" for me, then give it back when I need it. as such, I have spent 1.5 years now basically generating nearly all of my own electricity, in part, because of this regulation. With the regulation, I can afford this system. Without it, buying it would not have made financial sense. Hopefully other states have similar legislation. Of course, this works great in Colorado (very sunny).

Here's a graph of solar energy growth in the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_...Production.svg

Makin' progress! Exciting times.

My system is a 4.6 KW roof top, hooked up to the grid. It generated in it's first year over 7000KWH, at 12 cents a KWH, it saved me $840, plus there is a current bonus cash-back of 2 cents per KWH. The system cost me $9400. About a 10-year break even on cash, but of course the system itself adds value to the house.

So, all ye folks raging about our environment, what have YOU done for this cause? Put up or shut up?

[Hosh]

I'm fully aware of how the lights work in my house, but lets take a step back and think about why they work that way. The government has put in place regulations that require builders to wire your home for the energy production and delivery that you mention. Your mortgage company(if you have one) also requires many of these things for your home to retain its value. Now imagine a world where the government instead required builders to install solar panels and a wind turbine on your roof? Maybe a large battery is buried in the backyard, geothermal HVAC system is under the home, and a solar water heater is installed? Do you see the need for everything that you mention disappearing? Can you imagine air and water not poisoned by the fossil fuel industry?

Curious about your idea of a "large battery is buried in the backyard". Is this a commercially available technology?

[Ktaadn]

Curious about your idea of a "large battery is buried in the backyard". Is this a commercially available technology?

I really have no idea, it just seems like a better place than putting it in your garage or basement or whatever. Feel free to commercialize it if you like, I don't have a patent on it or anything.

[Venchka]

"Never allow the facts to get in the way of your agenda."
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MuddyWaters]

There are government incentives for private energy storage.
This is the real growth of LiOH battery in the next 10 yrs, its going to triple\
Cars will remain a small part

Hint: the production capacity for LiOH for batteries is not anywhere close to where it needs to be for this. Theres a ton of money to be made in 5-7 yr timeframe with right investments.

[rocketsocks]

Curious about your idea of a "large battery is buried in the backyard". Is this a commercially available technology?

Many "Prepers" do this now, it need be nothing more than a series of cells ganged together...D.C. O'coarse, you'd need to rectify.

[rocketsocks]

There are government incentives for private energy storage.
This is the real growth of LiOH battery in the next 10 yrs, its going to triple\
Cars will remain a small part

Hint: the production capacity for LiOH for batteries is not anywhere close to where it needs to be for this. Theres a ton of money to be made in 5-7 yr timeframe with right investments.

thats a big, Yup! Definitely worth following along...think tech journals and mags.

[Hosh]

Many "Prepers" do this now, it need be nothing more than a series of cells ganged together...D.C. O'coarse, you'd need to rectify.

Understand, but large, huge difference on maintaining a living space(s) on DC versus operating a national economy on AC. So many people that advocate renewables don't understand the need to backup both solar and wind with fossil fuel powered sources. Both solar and wind are unpredictable and cannot ever provide a stable, constant source of electricity.