Mid and shell suggestions needed for cold weather hiking.

[nuknees]

After considerable trial, error and expense I have finally nailed down my base layer for colder weather hiking. Now I need help with suggestions on mid and outer shell. I've tried polar wgt fleece for outer but didn't care for having to sit and remove footwear to put them on and off. Didn't care for the ice that builds up on bottom either. Prefer a full zip leggings on outers. Any help?

[garlic08]

For legs, I like to use my summer trousers over some polypro long undies. The trousers come off over my shoes if I need to adjust. Upper body, I've gotten away from fleece, too heavy and bulky for what it does if you need to pack it. I still have some for day hikes. I use a couple of layers of polypro and/or wool, a down vest for really cold or for emergencies, and a light shell. My Marmot Driclime windshirt works well all year in most conditions, with an extra layer under for cold, and the down over it for really cold.

A big variable, often more so than temperature, is moisture. Melting snow, for instance, can be very challenging. For lightweight hiking, I've learned to carry some bread bags. They can protect your gloves and socks during a wet snowfall. Good old Bagtex has saved the day a few times for a few grams of mass. (Two extra bags kept me going through a spring blizzard in the Smokies on my AT thru, and I had 25 miles of the Park to myself.)

[ScareBear]

After considerable trial, error and expense I have finally nailed down my base layer for colder weather hiking. Now I need help with suggestions on mid and outer shell. I've tried polar wgt fleece for outer but didn't care for having to sit and remove footwear to put them on and off. Didn't care for the ice that builds up on bottom either. Prefer a full zip leggings on outers. Any help?

Ummmm....ok.....let's start.....

You do not need polar weight fleece on the AT. For any reason. At any time. ESPECIALLY AS YOUR PRIMARY OUTER WEAR.

You do need rain pants. And a rain jacket or poncho. I suggest a rain jacket.

You would then utilize your rain jacket and pants as your outer wear in cold weather. Underneath? That's up to you and your individual cold tolerance. For me, the most I've ever needed on the trail is a mid-weight polypro thermal zip T, a Terramar T-shirt and my rain jacket for the upper, for the lower, my Thorlo hiking socks and lightweight Terramar thermal bottoms, my hiking shorts and my rain pants. I found this combo is good to go on the trail for 30 degrees and up for me. At 45 I am ditching the long sleeve upper and rain pants, at 55 the jacket goes away with the t shirt and the long sleeve upper comes back on, the bottoms come off...

It is a bit about layering what you have, rather than bringing a specialized piece of clothing that won't see much, if any, use on the trail.

If you are talking about hiking in extreme weather other than the AT, then I go with a down jacket and heavier weight bottoms. The rain gear then doubles as my external gear. My rain jacket doubles as my BC ski shell...

YMMV...

[nsherry61]

For winter hiking/skiing, down to the negative single digits, on my bottom half, I use my summer hiking pants with mid-weight long-johns under them. That's all. If it's raining or sloppy wet snow, I put on my rain pants. Often, I put my rain pants on instead of my hiking pants to reduce the number of layers and keep me from overheating. I rarely put on or take off rain pants during a hike/climb during the day. If I need them, I put them on at the beginning and unzip the legs as far as needed for venting if I get warm.

THEN, I manage all my temperature control with my top half. Over my short sleeved base layer, I wear a long sleeved "base layer" as a light sweatshirt and then generally just a wind shirt (any more it too much insulation). When I get warm, I open my wind shirt, remove my wind shirt, pull up my long sleeves, or sometimes even strip down to just my base layer. If it gets down close to zero or wind picks up to much, or I'm stopped or moving slowly, I'll add either a fleece under my wind shirt or a puffy jacket over the top of my wind shirt, depending on which I chose to carry. Fleece works better for me as a mid-layer when I'm working hard in really cold conditions (< -10*F or so). The puffy works best for inactivity because it's lighter, warmer, and easier to put on and off right over whatever else I'm wearing.

If it's raining, my preferred protection is my poncho put over top of whatever else I'm wearing. Actually, I often remove a little insulation, because the poncho adds some warmth. I don't worry about rain-gear when it's snowing because the snow slides off my wind shell and nylon hiking pants without getting me to wet.

[FreeGoldRush]

If it's raining, my preferred protection is my poncho put over top of whatever else I'm wearing. Actually, I often remove a little insulation, because the poncho adds some warmth. I don't worry about rain-gear when it's snowing because the snow slides off my wind shell and nylon hiking pants without getting me to wet.

Couple of questions. Does your wind shell offer adequate rain protection? It sounds like you are putting a poncho over the wind shell. It also sounds like rain pants are nice to have in cold/slushy/wet weather but a rain skirt is preferred in warmer weather. Is this the case? It makes sense. I'm also hearing that a rain jacket and pants are sometimes worn in cold/wet weather even when it is not raining. And it also appears that keeping the feet dry with water proof socks or some other method is needed in wet/slushy/snowy weather but not in summer months. In both cases the shoes get soaked and in winter they must be kept from freezing overnight. Does all that sound reasonsble? All this is with respect to hiking the AT with never more than a few inches of snow.

[nsherry61]

Couple of questions. Does your wind shell offer adequate rain protection? . . .

No. It offers adequate light sprinkle protection. I use my poncho in rain. I generate enough heat that if it is just a light drizzle, I will often evaporate water off me at about the same rate I am getting wet, so real rain protection isn't needed in light rain.

. . . It sounds like you are putting a poncho over the wind shell . . .

Yep, unless the combination makes me to warm, in which case I will remove the wind shell.

. . . It also sounds like rain pants are nice to have in cold/slushy/wet weather but a rain skirt is preferred in warmer weather. Is this the case? It makes sense . . .

I only ever use rain pants in cold/wet weather. In the summer the poncho covers me up fine except the lower legs, which aren't an issue unless it's really cold. I like the idea of a rain kilt, but since I don't use a coat that dumps all the moisture off onto your hips and upper legs (which a rain kilt then helps with), I haven't figured out a use for a rain kilt in my system.

. . . I'm also hearing that a rain jacket and pants are sometimes worn in cold/wet weather even when it is not raining . . .

Never for me unless I am bushwhacking in wet underbrush. My wind layer (wind shirt and hiking pants) breaths much better than waterproof breathable gear and provides great shell protection except in exceptionally wet conditions.

. . . And it also appears that keeping the feet dry with water proof socks or some other method is needed in wet/slushy/snowy weather but not in summer months . . .

I think that sums up that issue pretty well.

. . . In both cases the shoes get soaked and in winter they must be kept from freezing overnight. Does all that sound reasonsble? All this is with respect to hiking the AT with never more than a few inches of snow.

It doesn't really matter if light trail shoes get frozen, they don't get stiff enough to be an issue, and they thaw quickly after you put them on. Since I generally put my shoes under my mattress (or between my two mattresses), under my head as a bit of pillow, they don't freeze very hard if at all.
As for keeping your feet dry, I would focus on keeping them warm. If it's near freezing, but your feet still stay warm when wet, don't worry to much about keeping your feet dry except at night. If it's cold enough that your feet are getting cold because they are wet, get them dry and keep them that way.

Have fun!

[egilbe]

Ive been playing around with thick tights and shell pants for winter hiking. Has to be fairly cold to work well. Like NSsherry61, heat management is done with my torso layers, adding and removing layers as needed. I can wear my summer hiking boots down to below zero, if Im moving. My feet cool off pretty quickly if I stop, though. I also wear OR crocodile gaiters and those work very well to keep my upper foot and lower leg warm. Im thinking thigh length fleece pants may work as an additional layer if its really cold...

[Another Kevin]

Ummmm....ok.....let's start.....

You do not need polar weight fleece on the AT. For any reason. At any time. ESPECIALLY AS YOUR PRIMARY OUTER WEAR.

You do need rain pants. And a rain jacket or poncho. I suggest a rain jacket.

You would then utilize your rain jacket and pants as your outer wear in cold weather. Underneath? That's up to you and your individual cold tolerance. For me, the most I've ever needed on the trail is a mid-weight polypro thermal zip T, a Terramar T-shirt and my rain jacket for the upper, for the lower, my Thorlo hiking socks and lightweight Terramar thermal bottoms, my hiking shorts and my rain pants. I found this combo is good to go on the trail for 30 degrees and up for me. At 45 I am ditching the long sleeve upper and rain pants, at 55 the jacket goes away with the t shirt and the long sleeve upper comes back on, the bottoms come off...

It is a bit about layering what you have, rather than bringing a specialized piece of clothing that won't see much, if any, use on the trail.

If you are talking about hiking in extreme weather other than the AT, then I go with a down jacket and heavier weight bottoms. The rain gear then doubles as my external gear. My rain jacket doubles as my BC ski shell...

YMMV...

I think you're talking aboout a traditional thru-hike pattern here. Some of us hike on the AT in winter (usually for short distances) and find a set of fleecies to be quite useful. You're talking about temps of 30 degrees or so - which is 'shoulder season' weather Up North. For hiking in, say, -10°F, I may well be wearing a fleece under my rain jacket/wind shell, and then layering up with a puffy at stops. Unless it's relatively wet (unlikely in that sort of cold), I'm likely to have polypro long johns and my summer hiking pants, much like nsherry61 - but have fleece pants to layer if necessary.

Still, you're right that most newbies hike overdressed. If you don't start off a little cold - maybe even damn cold - you're going to wind up wet after a half hour in motion. Winter hiking is all about moisture management. Don't get so warm that you wet out your insulation - that's deadly. A little discomfort walking until you're warmed up is just a little discomfort. We agree on that - it's just that the AT in New England in winter is not like the Southern AT at any time of year, or like any part of the AT in thru-hiking season.

A hardshell in place of the windshirt comes in really handy if I'm heading off trail or likely to encounter 'snowdown' where the weight of ice and snow on the trees bends them to obstruct the trail. A lightweight rain jacket or windshirt will turn to trail confetti in those conditions. That's why you'll see pictures of me looking like the first pic below. Baselayer under regular hiking pants and hardshell. Glove liners. I see that I had a balaclava on, so it must have been chilly that day. Orange vest because it was hunting season. In shoulder season, with 30°F temps, on trail, I'd have a rain jacket instead of the hardshell, lose the headgear, and look more like second picture. That's a lightweight, rather than midweight, baselayer and rain jacket. When the wind died, the rain jacket was too warm, and I was just in my baselayer top (third pic). Of course, I had tuque and gloves and puffy in my pack, ready to pull out if I needed them!





By the time I'm wearing the fleeces on the move, I'm probably also wearing facemask and goggles, and using full traction gear, and many people no longer call that sort of thing 'hiking.'

[Dogwood]

AK, is that a coffee cup holder you've attached to a tree?