Gear Weight

[colorado_rob]

I wouldn't put a heated Gatorade bottle in the foot of my sleeping bag...but a Nalgene, yup.

Been doing just that for 15 years, climbing huge, cold mountains all over the world, nothing but Gatorade bottles warming my toes at 25 below zero outside.

You carry your own fears. Hike on.

[rocketsocks]

Been doing just that for 15 years, climbing huge, cold mountains all over the world, nothing but Gatorade bottles warming my toes at 25 below zero outside.

You carry your own fears. Hike on.

...and there ya have it!

[rocketsocks]

Been doing just that for 15 years, climbing huge, cold mountains all over the world, nothing but Gatorade bottles warming my toes at 25 below zero outside.

You carry your own fears. Hike on.

but since ya brought it up (carry your own fears)...is it not those that are afraid to carry a little extra weight of a far superior vessel the ones that are afraid of blowin' out their back?

[ScareBear]

but since ya brought it up (carry your own fears)...is it not those that are afraid to carry a little extra weight of a far superior vessel the ones that are afraid of blowin' out their back?

Now I am motivated to get a 1 liter Gatorade bottle half-full of hot water and sit on it to see what happens. I already know nothing happens to the Nalgene....nothing....just sayin....

Fear isn't always a bad thing. Most of the time in the wilderness, fear is your DNA kicking in. And, that's a good thing. At a human's base level, being afraid is your physical being's means of self-preservation. Fear of heights, fire, water, confined spaces, avalanches, hypothermia and bursting-water-bottles-inside-of-down-sleeping-bags-at10 degrees can all be rational fears. It's the IRRATIONAL fears that are bad things...YMMV...

[cmoulder]

Pouring boiling water straight into a Gatorade bottle will deform it. I've put hot (~160°F) water into them many times with no issues.

When at all possible it is preferable to have a sleep system (quilt/bag+air mat+CCF) that does not depend upon additional heat to provide adequate warmth.

Turning snow into hot water is a very fuel-intensive exercise so it is best not to bring it to a full boil in any event. And it's a very good idea to bring one of those coffee filter baskets to strain out the bits of tree bark, leaves and needles when melting snow for water.

[egilbe]

And it's a very good idea to bring one of those coffee filter baskets to strain out the bits of tree bark, leaves and needles when melting snow for water.

But, but...thats my dietary fiber!

[Hikingjim]

I dislike arbitrary labels. I never seem to be able to wear any of them comfortably.

Kevin, you have clearly hiked enough to know what you need to bring. I would never start with someone's list or care about base weight, but I recognize it's use, and it's only arbitrary when people start adding their banjo to their base weight instead of making it an apples to apples comparison.
If someone says their AT thru-hike base weight, I know exactly what they're talking about. Same with "winter base weight", etc.
It's best served to shake down newb gear, for seasoned hikers that want to go as low as possible in weight, etc

[colorado_rob]

Now I am motivated to get a 1 liter Gatorade bottle half-full of hot water and sit on it to see what happens. I already know nothing happens to the Nalgene....nothing....just sayin....

Fear isn't always a bad thing. Most of the time in the wilderness, fear is your DNA kicking in. And, that's a good thing. At a human's base level, being afraid is your physical being's means of self-preservation. Fear of heights, fire, water, confined spaces, avalanches, hypothermia and bursting-water-bottles-inside-of-down-sleeping-bags-at10 degrees can all be rational fears. It's the IRRATIONAL fears that are bad things...YMMV...

Agree, but I would submit that carrying water bottles that you can drive a truck over for fear of them breaking otherwise is a tad irrational**. Do make that test! I have, but only with a full G-ade bottle, never half full which would indeed be somewhat weaker, though probably still plenty strong. So, just make sure your bottle is relatively full, the cap on tight and not cross-threaded, and voila, you won't have any problems.

Pouring boiling water straight into a Gatorade bottle will deform it. I've put hot (~160°F) water into them many times with no issues.

When at all possible it is preferable to have a sleep system (quilt/bag+air mat+CCF) that does not depend upon additional heat to provide adequate warmth.

Turning snow into hot water is a very fuel-intensive exercise so it is best not to bring it to a full boil in any event. And it's a very good idea to bring one of those coffee filter baskets to strain out the bits of tree bark, leaves and needles when melting snow for water.

One main reason for the hot-water-Gatorade-bottle thing we use in winter all the time is those hot water bottles are our next day's drinking water. It helps to start out with warm water for the next day's hike/climb/whatever, and who wants to bother melting snow in the morning?

Yeah, I've seen full boiling water distort the bottom of a G-ade bottle, though this doesn't seem to really hurt or compromise the bottle. So I just pour a few ounces of cold water into the bottom before pouring the hot (usually near boiling) water into the bottle. Works great.

If you really must carry a Nalgene for use as a hot water bottle, at least only carry one of them for this specific use, and while your at it, carry the Polyethylene version, which is significantly lighter than the Lexan version.

** Funny story, my buddy actually DID drive over his own pack with his truck, moving his truck to a different parking spot at a trailhead. Squashed lunch, tread marks on his pack, nothing else damaged.

[Another Kevin]

Pouring boiling water straight into a Gatorade bottle will deform it. I've put hot (~160°F) water into them many times with no issues.

When at all possible it is preferable to have a sleep system (quilt/bag+air mat+CCF) that does not depend upon additional heat to provide adequate warmth.

Turning snow into hot water is a very fuel-intensive exercise so it is best not to bring it to a full boil in any event. And it's a very good idea to bring one of those coffee filter baskets to strain out the bits of tree bark, leaves and needles when melting snow for water.

Hmm, the way I figure it, if I'm already spending the fuel to melt it, I might as well boil it to save the hassle of treating it in some other way.

My sleep system (bag + CCF + mat, just as you suggest, plus an automobile sun shade) provides adequate warmth at -10°F. It warms up a lot faster with a hot water bottle. It takes a while, and consumes a fair amount of body heat, to heat up the dead geese and the trapped air. Since I've just spent a few moments exposing a lot of skin to the cold changing into my sleeping baselayer, I'll take all the warmth I can find. Besides, my Nalgene is my coffee pot. (I bring just one - the others are Platypus bags. The wide-mouth sport-drink bottle is the urinal.) That coffee filter that strains out the leaves, spruce needles and other floaties does double duty for filtering coffee.

[Engine]

The base weights for our packs when planning for possible winter conditions (early March AT start date) are:

Mine: 11.2 pounds

My wife: 10.1 pounds

Keep in mind we have some shared gear, such as cook kit and tent, so those figures would be tweaked a bit if going solo. Once we get past Roan Mountain and send our winter gear home, the numbers work out to 9.7 and 8.9 respectively.

[Puddlefish]

If I can trust a Gatorade bottle with my pee, opening and closing it without cross threading, while half asleep, multiple times a night, keeping it right next to my sleeping bag, while half asleep... I can trust it with some hot water down by my feet, in my sleeping bag.

[Neemor]

The thing about going lighter is that it snowballs.
If you carry less gear, you can hike easier & faster. meaning you carry less water and food. which means you will be lighter and you can go even faster. Which means you need less food

It looks like there is some good advice above on what you could get rid of.
The main thing is to be content with your weight to comfort level. But dont be scared to get rid of things. Try going stoveless. Try carrying less clothing. Be open minded and if you dont miss anything then dont carry it again.

P.s. You will get used to being around bears. The spray isn't necessary. 🏼️


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[Gritty]

Is this THE Neemor? If so congrats on the PCT thru hike! I just watched the video you did with John Z. Good stuff. Good to know you are here.

[Neemor]

Is this THE Neemor? If so congrats on the PCT thru hike.

Hahaha. There is only one Neemor.

Thank you!

[capehiker]

I though "UL territory" was around a 10 lb base or less? Certainly not 20 pounds. Semantics, I suppose.

Yes, you are correct. I did a double take and scratched my head when I read 20lbs as UL.

[kevperro]

It should be easy to get a base weight under 15lbs as long as you are not planning on winter travel.

< 3 lbs. on shelter (everything needed)
< 3 lbs. on Sleeping System (bag + pad)
< 3 lbs on pack (including cover/compactor bag)
< 3 lbs on clothing (everything you carry - don't count worn shorts/t-shirt/socks/boots)
< 1 lb cooking system (pot/stove/accessories to eat)

Don't allow yourself to exceed these limits in each category and you should be fine. What you think you need and what you actually end up needing will be two different things so plan on changing your plans. Your pack weight takes care of itself after the first 21-30 days. You can always pick-up more junk as you travel. I doubt that will happen much. ;-)

[freys]

I'm right at 10 on my big 4 and will be over 5 for my clothing to start March 9th. If/when I get to Damascus I'll evaluate everything for warm and probably buy new lighter on some things. Ounces get very expensive so for now that is what I roll with.

[kevperro]

I'm right at 10 on my big 4 and will be over 5 for my clothing to start March 9th. If/when I get to Damascus I'll evaluate everything for warm and probably buy new lighter on some things. Ounces get very expensive so for now that is what I roll with.

That should do the trick...the easiest ounces are the items you just don't bring. You can comb through your pack after the first couple resupply points and I bet you find some free weight that cost nothing more than dropping it.

[coyote9]

Nothing wrong with a 23lb base weight if that has all the things that you want to take with you. (My base weight is usually about 20-25lbs for a weekend hike, and was more like 40lbs for a JMT thru hike).

But of the top of my head, I would say the following items are what you will not see on a hiker with <15lb base weight:
1. Pack that weights almost 5lbs. You need something <3lb if you're trying to go ultra light.
2. Nearly 1lb med kit. I too like to come well prepared for the unexpected. Ultra light hikers seem to carry not much more than a few bandaids.
3. 12oz Bear Mace - you only NEED mace if you're going into grizzly country.
4. 2lbs of electronics - (and it's not too difficult to find a lamp lighter than 5oz)

+1
Well said. Good stuff

[coyote9]

My friend, you shouldn't get the idea from the Internet that it's necessary or even preferred to go ultralight on the AT. You will sacrifice a lot of comfort (and safety) to carry a 20 lb pack vs a 35 lb pack. I started north from Springer on April 4, 2009 and watched very carefully what successful hikers were carrying as I went through GA and NC. Sure, I saw a few ultralight rigs, but everyone else had ~35 lb packs and still hiked 15-20 mile days without any problems.

As a veteran hiker who started in the 1960's with Army surplus packs and tents (pack weight 50 lbs+) I can say that the available ~35 lb lightweight equipment is already a huge improvement over what we carried a generation ago. Trimming everything drastically to the bone is possible, but why are you doing this? Are you physically weak? Is it really important to do big miles? Do you like being uncomfortable?

"You will sacrifice a lot of comfort (and safety) to carry a 20 lb pack vs a 35 lb pack"
How did you come to this conclusion?