I thought covers were still good to have even with a compactor bag on the inside because a soaked pack is heavier than a non-soaked pack. Not sure if a wet pack is more than 4 oz though.
*Really wish i could edit posts!!*
Also i wanted to add is that im going to see if the Frogg Togg poncho can cover the pack. which could solve both issues.
It should. A guy I hiked with this summer had a Frogg Togg poncho and used it as his pack cover as well. It fit over his back easily. He wasn't hauling an expedition pack,though.Originally Posted by Oventoasted
*Really wish i could edit posts!!*
Also i wanted to add is that im going to see if the Frogg Togg poncho can cover the pack. which could solve both issues.
According to your latest spreadsheet you either have or are planning on going with a ZPacks Arc Haul. No need to worry about Dyneema getting soaked.
I just got the pack in yesterday and its awesome! never had a pack that was so large and light. I can see why a cover isnt necessary now too with it. its like a massive dry bag.
I started with a brand new pack, and a compactor bag inside. Didn't pick up any more water weight through wet fabric than would have picked up with water weight on a pack cover. The pack cover would have just been extra weight carried full time. I probably could have skipped the compactor bag as well, but it was part of my mattress inflation system.
Excellent article on going light over at HMG, written by Allan Dixon;
http://blog.hyperlitemountaingear.co...eze/#more-6455
Wow, that is one outstanding article. Great stuff! This article should become a sticky-note on the UL forum. Thanks for the link.
Yes, that is a really excellent UL primer.
UL is mostly about putting a little more thought into the 'why' and the 'how' for gear selection and usage.
And SUL is about putting in a LOT more thought... lol
AND a lot more into $$$$$$$$$$$$$.....And SUL is about putting in a LOT more thought... lol
Sometimes yes, sometimes no...
I have a Zpacks pocket tarp with a MYOG polycryo bathtub/groundsheet that costs a lot less than most tents, and I use the same air mat and sleeping bag, and the MLD Core 1700 cost $80 plus about another $30 for pockets, and my cook kit is very inexpensive.
Only problem with the tarp around here is the bugs. I can handle most anything except bugs feasting on me.
Like others have said, that isn't too bad of a base weight, and a 35 lb fully loaded pack is ok (not for an ultralighter, tho!). But if you want suggestions, with weight savings:
Get an ultralight pack (3 lb)
You're hanging, ditch the air pad (1 lb)
Pare down that med kit and ditch the mace (18 oz)
Switch to an alcohol stove (10 oz)
Ditch the kindle and read books on your phone (8 oz)
Ditch the extra batteries (6 oz)
Don't count your poles, they're not on your back.
That 6.5 pounds eliminated, and you're darn near UL territory, at just over 20 lbs base. Some things like the extras for your First Aid Kit and extra batteries can be put in a bounce box and bounced ahead of you to the next mail pick up point.
I'm a technphile, too, and will be bringing a 1 lb 1300 mAh charger that keeps my phone charged for six days, but I don't know at this point if I'll be ditching it for something lighter down the road. I don't thru for a couple more years so I have time to adjust. I wouldn't ADD anything to your list, but you've already gotten many good suggestions for saving weight. Especially drop the bear mace. I've never had a single good experience with incapacitating sprays. You're more than likely going to spray yourself or someone else with you instead of the bear, and the bear will just look at you funny and run off into the bushes like it would if you'd simply yelled and waved your arms.
Want to ask you all what your average pack weight will be? I'm totaling up my gear i will be taking and so far im at a 23lb base weight. which seems high since i know a lot of the other thru hikers have base weights of 10-15lbs.
now if i add the 10lbs of food for 5 days and another 2-3 lbs of water i could be looking at a 35lb pack.maybe im drinking a little too much of the UL koolaid but i know carrying too much stuff can hurt mileage and your body.
I put up a picture of my list so far. Attachment 36922
Also i know my weight will go down after the spring and summer comes and that will lighten things up a bit too.
I definitely use a pack cover at this time of year.
(1) It's blaze orange. It's hunting season. Enough said.
(2) It's slick enough not to accumulate ice, or at least to let me shake the ice off it. I've had points on trips when I've knocked literally pounds of ice off my pack cover. I particularly remember this one from two years ago, where the rocks were dry when we started up the mountain in the morning. We got ice all over our packs, our outer clothing, our poles, anything that was in the weather. I wanted my crampons by the time we were back at the cars, but all I'd brought were microspikes. No accidents, but it was scary. The drive to town was even scarier.
But everyone here knows that I'm not an ultralighter. It doesn't make sense with the rest of my hiking style.
I always know where I am. I'm right here.
funny, I was just looking at zpacks tarps... we're (my wife and I) trying to settle on a tent system for a PCT attempt next year. We definitely need bug (scorpion, snake, etc) protection as well, shopping for bug nets, etc, might DIY something (my wife loves to sew) starting with a zpacks tarp.
And sure, sometimes a few bucks can save lots and lots of weight. My favorite silliness is the ridiculous weight of lexan bottles (Nalgene's, etc) vs. SUL drink bottles (G-ade, whatever) that cost essentially nothing. I've seen lots of folks on trails such as the AT carry three Nalgene bottles, I swear to doG. Weighing in over a pound.
I though "UL territory" was around a 10 lb base or less? Certainly not 20 pounds. Semantics, I suppose.
Nice find, well thought out and well written.
I also checked out the Grand Canyon thru hike articles. Major, major undertaking in a harsh environment. Not the best place to bone up on your map and compass skills or you might get stuck on a ledge with no way up, no way down.
That might be BackPacker magazine UL.
lol, those Nalgenes are some low-hanging fruit, for sure. I'm a big fan of the Gatorade bottles, and in the winter I put them in bubble-wrap mailers for insulation. Works crazy well.
I wouldn't put a heated Gatorade bottle in the foot of my sleeping bag...but a Nalgene, yup.
I think the framework that a lot of people use is Alan Dixon's article on Backpacking Light from about fifteen years ago. He gave some example gear lists.
His example choices of stuff for a week on the trail had:
Traditional: 32 lb base weight + 16.5 lb consumables + 6.2 lb worn or carried = 54.7 FSO
Lightweight: 20.1 lb base weight + 13.0 lb consumables + 4.9 lb worn or carried = 38.1 lb FSO
Ultralight: 9.1 lb base weight + 9.4 lb consumables + 3.4 lb worn or carried = 21.9 lb FSO
REI's definition is the following. Remember that they're in the (mostly low-end) gear business, so I'd expect that they'd expect you to carry more.
Minimalist < 12 lbs
UL around 20 lbs
LW < 30 lbs
Plush/deluxe - more than that.
Gossamer Gear - who are in the business of selling you more expensive, lighter stuff, says
LW < 20 lbs base weight
UL < 10 lbs baseweight
SUL < 5 lbs baseweight
which has ratcheted a bit down from the original BPL article.
I find the commenters on the Gossamer Gear article are very much to my liking, and very different from the people here. I really like Skurka's comments there. Base weight is a meaningless number. The trick is to take what you need to do what you want to do in the conditions that you expect (and at least get home safely if things get significantly worse) - and nothing else. The exact figure depends on the destination, the weather, and the trip objectives. Sure, Skurka is mostly known for his gear advice for the 'ultimate hiker' - but he recognizes that there are 'ultimate hikers' and 'ultimate campers' and a whole spectrum in between - and that most of us aren't even the same place on that spectrum on every trip. The purpose of going lightweight is to be able to carry more consumables or more fun items, or to go farther, or to travel in more seasons or at higher elevations or up steeper slopes, or simply to be able to keep going as the old body is able to haul less. It's not to achieve an arbitrary number.
What I'll carry for a weekend in Harriman or the Taconics in high summer is definitely 'lightweight' by Gossamer Gear's definition. That's a pretty broad weight range, and I can state that with some confidence without ever having weighed my pack. It may even at this point be edging toward ultralight, if I'm not tooling up for photography, fishing or map making. What I'll carry for a weekend outing in deep winter that involves some above-treeline travel on a Northeast 4000 footer probably weighs three times as much - and is still in the 'lightweight' category for that type of trip.
I'll probably never be an ultralighter. It just isn't my travel style. (I'll continue to go farther into lightweight territory. I know that I have gear items and systems that I want to replace with lighter versions as the opportunity arises.) I know I'll also never be an ultralighter in other respects. While I freely admit that I'm carrying a few pounds too many, I'm a big guy, and no matter what you feed a bulldog, he ain't never gonna be a greyhound.
Ultralight doesn't need to mean expensive, either. If it fit my travel style, I could easily just plunk down $200 and go with a kit like Mark Henley's list. Heck, in some categories, I have better and lighter stuff already. But it doesn't. A lot of it simply doesn't fit what I do or where I go. I think good advice on "how can I reduce pack weight" is, "start with Mark's list, and for anything you do to go beyond it, justify to yourself why you're going heavier or more expensive." His options mightn't be durable enough to hold up for a thru-hike (although the flimsiest items can be replaced readily in most trail towns, often as a dumpster dive!), but they are surely good enough for multiple shakedown hikes. It's also a "high summer" gear list - cooler weather will demand more. But it's a useful starting point for comparison for ultracheap hikers.
I dislike arbitrary labels. I never seem to be able to wear any of them comfortably.
Last edited by Another Kevin; 11-22-2016 at 11:41.
I always know where I am. I'm right here.
Mmmmm....yup. That's pretty much spot on....
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