WhiteBlaze Pages 2024
A Complete Appalachian Trail Guidebook.
AVAILABLE NOW. $4 for interactive PDF(smartphone version)
Read more here WhiteBlaze Pages Store

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 60
  1. #21
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-06-2013
    Location
    Chicago, Il
    Age
    45
    Posts
    3,770

    Default

    So... not completely going to discount the other posts but more some apples to apples perspectives and numbers for you. I am a big fan of this jacket and finally got a nano-air this year as well (waited for the 50% off sale).

    This is a synthetic piece... so all the basic down vs synthetic logic or arguments apply.
    Specifically, this is intended as active insulation (IE you may sweat) as opposed to camp insulation.
    If you want a "Stop piece" for camp... pulling out a down puffy when your activity is done and you want a one and done piece then down is better in terms of warmth to weight ratios.

    More specifically the apples to apples then is not down, but Fleece. it still works when wet, isn't affected much by body oils, and will hold its basic loft when layering (things down will not do).
    So if you compare it to a similar weight fleece like a 200 weight R2- http://www.patagonia.com/product/men...fleece#start=1
    You'll see a more accurate weight comparison 14.3 oz versus a 11.9 oz nanopuff jacket.
    You could also look to the newer pullover version too to save a bit more weight- 10.1 oz- http://www.patagonia.com/product/men...&start=1&sz=24

    Compared to a fleece product- the bulk of a PLG synthetic is much closer to down.

    By the numbers:
    60g of PLG= 1.84 CLO (About 48.75* rating)
    A 50* EE prodigy in 2.1 Apex is 1.64 CLO and rated at 50* as a sleeping quilt.
    Now to be fair; the brick quilting on the Nanopuff is extensive so puts those closer in rating the unquilted Apex (if not worse) so it's reasonable to call that (with a light baselayer) a 55* jacket on it's own.

    Now a similar down jacket would be extensively sewn through quilted as well so a micro puffy (UL) down is a bad comparison... those are closer to a 100wt fleece. You really have to look at one up to compare-
    Keeping the company the same- it falls between a down sweater at 13.1 oz (closer to 300 wt fleece in warmth) and a UL down jacket at 9.5 oz.
    http://www.patagonia.com/product/men...ests-insulated
    http://www.patagonia.com/product/men...ket/84757.html

    So...
    Do you want something you could safely wear on trail or with the risk of getting wet?
    Or do you want a stop piece that you will baby a bit and keep dry?

    I prefer to layer my windshell over the nano-puff personally- though I wear it most often as a standalone daily jacket for most of the year. I may wear several layers under it but expect it to give me a 15-20* bump in warmth over what I am wearing. The reason I prefer it; I can beat the crap out of it. If I catch a spark by the fire I won't have a geese fart of feathers. If I snag a branch gathering wood- I stitch up the shell when I feel like it. But this shell is pretty tough stuff. I did slice the shoulder on mine carrying metal studs and just left it to see. A year or more later and it hasn't run or unraveled much beyond the initial snag. It has dirt and grease on it. I don't over compress it so it has held up decently over about three years. It is 92% warm when wet and dries under body heat.

    All that said... if I just wanted a warm jacket to put on to sit in the shelter and wait for my freezer bag meal to heat while I read the journal:
    A down jacket will be warmer, pack better, and be lighter.

    But if I want a piece of gear I can use and abuse- I choose the nano-puff.
    The nano-air seems a bit warmer and has better stretch... but I'm not sure about the durability of the shell or the reduced quilting as that is unproven. That jacket is designed for alpine climbers though who will wear it with a WPB shell-so it's shell is made to slide easily into another jacket. The nano-puff is a much better outer layer for camping/backpacking.

    As to other options...
    I'm a big fan of the Cap 4 (now thermalweight) as an insulation layer for most backpacking trips at 6.2 oz and layered under a windshell.
    http://www.patagonia.com/product/men...weight#start=1

    unless I know I will be camping more and/or it is actually winter or late/early shoulder seasons... I don't bring a puffy jacket of any type. My 45* synthetic quilt serves that purpose for camp wear.
    But on a more casual trip or winter backpacking trip a nano-puff is what I choose, especially when it's handy for the first hour or at breaks when moving. And at home -this (or the nano-puff now) is what I reach for to walk out the door all winter.

    I don't like much more than a vest in down. I think that does more for you than a jacket and you aren't likely to get that tangled in the brush or fire.



  2. #22
    Registered User colorado_rob's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-20-2012
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,540
    Images
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    ... I don't like much more than a vest in down. I think that does more for you than a jacket and you aren't likely to get that tangled in the brush or fire. [/COLOR]

    [/COLOR]
    Now there's a real nice combo, and what I carry in spring/fall, basically all but summer and deep winter: a UL down vest (4 oz) and a thermawrap (like the nano) jacket, total weight right around 13 ounces, extremely versatile system when used with hard-shell jacket, lots of permutations.

    Carrying a heavier down garment is silly for anything but deep winter, it's just not versatile enough. I can get nearly the same total insulating value with this kind of layering (down vest and synthetic jacket), and for pretty much the same weight, have more options for layering.

    Lots of folks, only on here it seems, say: "Never hike in an insulating layer", but I suppose they simply haven't hiked much in the conditions I hike in a lot, or they sweat profusely with minimal effort, meaning perhaps they could be in better shape.

    A thermawrap type of jacket (nano) is a very versatile piece of gear. Or, just get that $20 Costco thin-puffy and that works too.

  3. #23
    Registered User colorado_rob's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-20-2012
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,540
    Images
    3

    Default

    One more comment about the nano-puff I keep forgetting to make... I bought one and promptly returned in and bought the Montbell Thermawarp in stead because of the fit; the nano-puff seems to flare out at the bottom, whereas the Thermawrap has a trimmer fit. All depends on how you're built, of course, but if you're not 100% in love with the fit of the nano, try the Montbell sometime.

  4. #24
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-06-2013
    Location
    Chicago, Il
    Age
    45
    Posts
    3,770

    Default

    To add to that a bit too... I find/found that the UL down jackets tended to get a bit too much shifting down- like all along your side from raising your arms up and down. Or similar cold spots in use. There's just too little down in a layer that light IMO. But a full blown full or alpine down piece is overkill for all but the worst of it.

    So a decent weight down vest is my new lower limit in down gear and packs a big punch for what it is. You can wrap it over your footbox on a bad night or wear under your synthetic, or wear it backwards with your pack on for a chill morning... It's easy to sun dry and easy to protect and it holds it's loft decent under other layers... Besides, our old rule of thumb was a good 200 fleece (Denali Jacket) and a down vest. The synthetic fleece is just the upgraded version... and doesn't weigh 2lbs on it's own like the Denali did! Man could you beat the crap outta those bastards though.

    Rob- I think out west (except for those bone damp nasty nights out here) the lack of humidity kinda sucks it outta ya faster too. Sun's down/heat's off. And it can be slow to warm up in the morning or you may get caught for a long bit on the wrong side of the ridgeline in the shade for a good few hours before "second sunrise or early sunset". That and not too many prolonged ridgewalks in the Midwest or east to require insulation when walking either.

    I can do 25-30* in a skirt, base layer, cap4 and a windshell when moving... but that's in the relatively sheltered woods at a decent clip even in winter...but I couldn't pull that **** by you for long.

    So lotta the insulation choice is simply location conditions and seasons.

    TA;DR- There is some good wisdom in not hiking in an insulating layer- but only when you consider where the wise man who said so is hiking.

    If I was on a trip with Tipi... I'd want a nice down puffy for all them long winter nights reading bookrolls and snortin incense.

  5. #25

    Join Date
    05-05-2011
    Location
    state of confusion
    Posts
    9,866
    Journal Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosh View Post
    +1 on the need for some type of wind protection.
    Actually, nanopuff is very wind resistant. More than a breatheable windshirt.

    Its a light belay jacket for climbers by intent.

    If you think cut is roomy, they were a square box several yrs ago. Much improved im told.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 11-08-2016 at 18:02.

  6. #26

    Default

    I suspected my patience would pay off. CR and JB said so much I wanted to say.

  7. #27
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-20-2013
    Location
    Roaring Gap, NC
    Age
    78
    Posts
    8,529

    Default

    Just Bill,
    Thanks for validating my affinity for a down vest and a variety of layers under and over the vest. A most versatile garment. I've even used mine as an additional "blanket" layer when I found that my sleeping gear was under insulated.
    Wayne


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Eddie Valiant: "That lame-brain freeway idea could only be cooked up by a toon."
    https://wayne-ayearwithbigfootandbubba.blogspot.com
    FlickrMyBookTwitSpaceFace



  8. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    So... not completely going to discount the other posts but more some apples to apples perspectives and numbers for you. I am a big fan of this jacket and finally got a nano-air this year as well (waited for the 50% off sale).

    This is a synthetic piece... so all the basic down vs synthetic logic or arguments apply.
    Specifically, this is intended as active insulation (IE you may sweat) as opposed to camp insulation.
    If you want a "Stop piece" for camp... pulling out a down puffy when your activity is done and you want a one and done piece then down is better in terms of warmth to weight ratios.

    More specifically the apples to apples then is not down, but Fleece. it still works when wet, isn't affected much by body oils, and will hold its basic loft when layering (things down will not do).
    So if you compare it to a similar weight fleece like a 200 weight R2- http://www.patagonia.com/product/men...fleece#start=1
    You'll see a more accurate weight comparison 14.3 oz versus a 11.9 oz nanopuff jacket.
    You could also look to the newer pullover version too to save a bit more weight- 10.1 oz- http://www.patagonia.com/product/men...&start=1&sz=24

    Compared to a fleece product- the bulk of a PLG synthetic is much closer to down.

    By the numbers:
    60g of PLG= 1.84 CLO (About 48.75* rating)
    A 50* EE prodigy in 2.1 Apex is 1.64 CLO and rated at 50* as a sleeping quilt.
    Now to be fair; the brick quilting on the Nanopuff is extensive so puts those closer in rating the unquilted Apex (if not worse) so it's reasonable to call that (with a light baselayer) a 55* jacket on it's own.

    Now a similar down jacket would be extensively sewn through quilted as well so a micro puffy (UL) down is a bad comparison... those are closer to a 100wt fleece. You really have to look at one up to compare-
    Keeping the company the same- it falls between a down sweater at 13.1 oz (closer to 300 wt fleece in warmth) and a UL down jacket at 9.5 oz.
    http://www.patagonia.com/product/men...ests-insulated
    http://www.patagonia.com/product/men...ket/84757.html

    So...
    Do you want something you could safely wear on trail or with the risk of getting wet?
    Or do you want a stop piece that you will baby a bit and keep dry?

    I prefer to layer my windshell over the nano-puff personally- though I wear it most often as a standalone daily jacket for most of the year. I may wear several layers under it but expect it to give me a 15-20* bump in warmth over what I am wearing. The reason I prefer it; I can beat the crap out of it. If I catch a spark by the fire I won't have a geese fart of feathers. If I snag a branch gathering wood- I stitch up the shell when I feel like it. But this shell is pretty tough stuff. I did slice the shoulder on mine carrying metal studs and just left it to see. A year or more later and it hasn't run or unraveled much beyond the initial snag. It has dirt and grease on it. I don't over compress it so it has held up decently over about three years. It is 92% warm when wet and dries under body heat.

    All that said... if I just wanted a warm jacket to put on to sit in the shelter and wait for my freezer bag meal to heat while I read the journal:
    A down jacket will be warmer, pack better, and be lighter.

    But if I want a piece of gear I can use and abuse- I choose the nano-puff.
    The nano-air seems a bit warmer and has better stretch... but I'm not sure about the durability of the shell or the reduced quilting as that is unproven. That jacket is designed for alpine climbers though who will wear it with a WPB shell-so it's shell is made to slide easily into another jacket. The nano-puff is a much better outer layer for camping/backpacking.

    As to other options...
    I'm a big fan of the Cap 4 (now thermalweight) as an insulation layer for most backpacking trips at 6.2 oz and layered under a windshell.
    http://www.patagonia.com/product/men...weight#start=1

    unless I know I will be camping more and/or it is actually winter or late/early shoulder seasons... I don't bring a puffy jacket of any type. My 45* synthetic quilt serves that purpose for camp wear.
    But on a more casual trip or winter backpacking trip a nano-puff is what I choose, especially when it's handy for the first hour or at breaks when moving. And at home -this (or the nano-puff now) is what I reach for to walk out the door all winter.

    I don't like much more than a vest in down. I think that does more for you than a jacket and you aren't likely to get that tangled in the brush or fire.


    yar! where you been? I've been keeping this thread open as long as I could...


  9. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    Just Bill,
    Thanks for validating my affinity for a down vest and a variety of layers under and over the vest. A most versatile garment. I've even used mine as an additional "blanket" layer when I found that my sleeping gear was under insulated.
    Wayne


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I was going to send you a link but I figured you'd find your way here. this is the second half of the discussion we had before but I started this because I didn't want to hijack that thread.

    I think it's important, and maybe it was mentioned above, but we have people replying to this from all points of the compass. what may be good gear in the Northeast may not be in the Southwest, Boundry Waters, High Desert, etc. I'm in the SE where moisture management is a big factor at any temp roughly above 20*.

    thanks to all who replied here. learning has begun...

  10. #30

    Default

    My puffy will take me to about 25...with a LS base layer, 250 wt. fleece and a rain coat.

  11. #31
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-20-2013
    Location
    Roaring Gap, NC
    Age
    78
    Posts
    8,529

    Default

    Geographically specific places where I have used my down vest or wish I had not left it at home and had to buy a substitute.
    Rocky Mountains. Above 8,000'. July through early October. New Mexico to 53 degrees north in Alberta and British Columbia.
    Boone, NC and surrounding highlands. September thru April. Especially when it's wet.
    Belgium and Hungary. Any month of the year. Especially when it's wet.
    Kazakhstan. The northeast corner of the Caspian Sea. During the 9 months of winter.
    Wayne


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Eddie Valiant: "That lame-brain freeway idea could only be cooked up by a toon."
    https://wayne-ayearwithbigfootandbubba.blogspot.com
    FlickrMyBookTwitSpaceFace



  12. #32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rocketsocks View Post
    My puffy will take me to about 25...with a LS base layer, 250 wt. fleece and a rain coat.
    a Nano Puff, or down puffy? how much warmth does the Nano Puff add is what I'm asking with this thread...

  13. #33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    Geographically specific places where I have used my down vest or wish I had not left it at home and had to buy a substitute.
    Rocky Mountains. Above 8,000'. July through early October. New Mexico to 53 degrees north in Alberta and British Columbia.
    Boone, NC and surrounding highlands. September thru April. Especially when it's wet.
    Belgium and Hungary. Any month of the year. Especially when it's wet.
    Kazakhstan. The northeast corner of the Caspian Sea. During the 9 months of winter.
    Wayne


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    ok, that's versatile! what do you layer this over, a baselayer?..

  14. #34
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-06-2013
    Location
    Chicago, Il
    Age
    45
    Posts
    3,770

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondmouse View Post
    a Nano Puff, or down puffy? how much warmth does the Nano Puff add is what I'm asking with this thread...
    From above-

    By the numbers:
    60g of PLG= 1.84 CLO (About 48.75* rating)
    A 50* EE prodigy in 2.1 Apex is 1.64 CLO and rated at 50* as a sleeping quilt.
    Now to be fair; the brick quilting on the Nanopuff is extensive so puts those closer in rating the unquilted Apex (if not worse) so it's reasonable to call that (with a light baselayer) a 55* jacket on it's own.


    Call it a 200 wt fleece for comparison- though since it has a windshell like layer, unlike a fleece you can wear it alone with a light breeze.

    Call it about 15* to what you're wearing and factor in your activity.

  15. #35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    Just Bill,
    Thanks for validating my affinity for a down vest and a variety of layers under and over the vest. A most versatile garment. I've even used mine as an additional "blanket" layer when I found that my sleeping gear was under insulated...
    It's also evidenced by that choice of a lot of hikers in the LD community. But it's more of a synthetic vest or jacket option than down vest or jacket although both insulations have their place.

  16. #36

    Default

    The brick quilting design especially using smaller compartments plays into lofting and CLOs of down jackets too like MB's 1000 fp Plasma. I know 1000 fp in the field is problematic. If MB had used 1000 fp Hyper Dry and a high quality DWRed 7 D what do you think about the warmth to wt ratio over a weekends's usage? in non Pacific Northwest rainy season conditions?

  17. #37
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-20-2013
    Location
    Roaring Gap, NC
    Age
    78
    Posts
    8,529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondmouse View Post
    ok, that's versatile! what do you layer this over, a baselayer?..
    Usually a 100 fleece under the vest and WPB jacket over. As it gets colder, I'll wear a long sleeve shirt under the vest and a 200 weight fleece jacket and WPB jacket over everything.
    Wayne


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Eddie Valiant: "That lame-brain freeway idea could only be cooked up by a toon."
    https://wayne-ayearwithbigfootandbubba.blogspot.com
    FlickrMyBookTwitSpaceFace



  18. #38
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-20-2013
    Location
    Roaring Gap, NC
    Age
    78
    Posts
    8,529

    Default

    Yes. A baselayer or something similar. I wasn't always hiking. Mostly I'm just trying to stay comfortable or alive.
    Wayne


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Eddie Valiant: "That lame-brain freeway idea could only be cooked up by a toon."
    https://wayne-ayearwithbigfootandbubba.blogspot.com
    FlickrMyBookTwitSpaceFace



  19. #39
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-20-2013
    Location
    Roaring Gap, NC
    Age
    78
    Posts
    8,529

    Default

    Old versus new:
    Sewn through seam spacing.
    Old: 5"-6"
    New: 1-1/2"
    Do the arithmetic.
    Wayne


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Eddie Valiant: "That lame-brain freeway idea could only be cooked up by a toon."
    https://wayne-ayearwithbigfootandbubba.blogspot.com
    FlickrMyBookTwitSpaceFace



  20. #40

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondmouse View Post
    ok, that's versatile! what do you layer this over, a baselayer?..
    I find a synthetic or sometimes down filled vest one of the most versatile apparel pieces in my gear closet. I'm more apt to wear it, when I do choose to add a vest to my kit, when I'm on the move so is employed more often than simply only a stopped/in camp less utilized apparel heavier jacket piece. I like the layering combination of under layering the vest with a LS Icebreaker/Smartwool/IBEX/Minus 33/etc 200 -240 wt merino top with a half zip preferably w/ monkey finger holes or the synthetic same in a light to mid wt Patagonia Capilene(Caliper like) 1/2 zip. Throw in a tee like a 150 wt merino or Patagonia Daily(combo of merino and Capilene) and these torso pieces with an UL WP shell are parts of my core apparel kit 75% of the time. Make up warmth by mixing in extremity accessories of UL design like merino ankle height socks, nylon running gloves, and beanie or Buff. I like having hand pockets on either my vest and/or shell with this layering kit. What's I choose to put on my feet factors in what is being worn on my torso, hands, and head and vice versa. Integration and larger considerations is the name of appropriate UL apparel layering game.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
++ New Posts ++

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •