Insulation for SOBO

[wtrenda]

I am starting my thru around June 15 next year. I was hoping to cut some weight but stay comfortable.

Is it possible to go with a down vest instead of a full jacket or does it still get too cold in Maine, NH and VT during the summer nights at elevation? I have insulation for later on in the Grayson highlands and onward but was hoping to stay minimal in the summer months.


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[egilbe]

Down vest and long sleeve shirt with a wind or rain shell should get you through the worst of the weather, in most years. Keep in mind that two hikers almost died on MT Washington the end of June this year because of a snowstorm. I left my down puffy home 4th of July weekend and only took my vest and wished I had my jacket, but I survived. I just went to bed early.

[garlic08]

Yep, there's comfort and there's survival. I believe the down vest was created with survival in mind--keep the core warm

Keep in mind it doesn't matter at all what you bring if you lack the experience to keep it dry in harsh conditions.

[Hikingjim]

if your sleeping system is warm enough with the vest to handle some cold nights, then you'll be ok safety-wise.
On occasion, you might be that person that is wrapped in their sleeping bag at 6 pm because they're cold.
I would bring a jacket personally... but how big is the weight difference in your two items?

[wtrenda]

if your sleeping system is warm enough with the vest to handle some cold nights, then you'll be ok safety-wise.
On occasion, you might be that person that is wrapped in their sleeping bag at 6 pm because they're cold.
I would bring a jacket personally... but how big is the weight difference in your two items?

13 oz for the jacket and 5.5 oz for the vest. Which is enough of a weight difference for me to at least consider this strategy.


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[Hikingjim]

what sleeping bag or quilt are you planning? you can get away with a bit higher temp rating if you bring that coat

[Dogwood]

13 oz for the jacket and 5.5 oz for the vest. Which is enough of a weight difference for me to at least consider this strategy.


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I'll bet you, guarantee it even, if you're making this post saving wt in the context of 5.5 ozs can be had in other areas of your kit and what you carry.

[Dogwood]

How about listing the rest of your kit at the start or your typical backpacking style or consumable wt or what your background or skill set entails?

[wtrenda]

ULA Ohm 2.032oz
EE Revelation 3017.1oz
Neoair Xlite12oz
Lightheart Gear Solo(w/stakes&polycro)29oz
Carbon Fiber Z Poles10oz
Alcohol Stove1oz
Windscreen1.1oz
Toaks .9L 3.9oz
S2S Long Spork .4oz
Sawyer Squeeze3.5oz
BD Spot 3.25oz
Kavu Hat4oz
Rab Flashpoint7oz
**Patagonia Nanopuff 13 OR DOWN VEST 5.5oz**
Patagonia Cap 1 S/S2.7oz
Patagonia Cap 3 Bottoms 6.5oz
Patagonia Baggies 7.4oz
Melanzana Soft Shell Beanie~3oz
Swiftwick Hiking Socks ~2.5oz
Sleeping Socks ~3oz
Phone Cord/Charger3oz
Goalzero Flip 20 Battery4.6oz
Toiletries/First Aid 6oz

I know I can cut weight by going to a tarp system or ZPacks arc blast or duplex or something in that line of thought. I am really just curious as to the viability of getting by with a vest instead of a jacket.


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[egilbe]

Its amazing how cold it can get at elevation in the Summer. You can get by with a vest if you are willing to spend as much of your waking moments in your bag as you can to stay warm.

4th of July weekend, in bed at 6pm because all I had was a down vest. Doesnt take much wind to cool you off if its even just a little bit cool.

There really is such a thing as "stupid light"

[Heliotrope]

Its amazing how cold it can get at elevation in the Summer. You can get by with a vest if you are willing to spend as much of your waking moments in your bag as you can to stay warm.

4th of July weekend, in bed at 6pm because all I had was a down vest. Doesnt take much wind to cool you off if its even just a little bit cool.

There really is such a thing as "stupid light"

Agreed. On the same trip I was too hot to keep my 30° quilt on me and on another night it was all I could do to stay warm.

I just came back from a trip in Maine, where I live, and found that my down vest wasn't cutting it and I wished I had a puffy jacket.

I would also consider maybe a non down item to go with the vest such as a 100 weight fleece.


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[lumberjaime]

I hiked SOBO in 2013, starting on Katahdin on June 1st. For insulation, I had wool baselayers under my regular hiking clothes (running shorts & T shirt), a synthetic puffy vest, a fleece, and a raincoat. Managed to somehow lose the fleece in Monson. I was fine, but a few mornings were tough to get out of the hammock.

Yes, high elevation is cold, but don't forget about the frigid valleys! I spent the night in Dunn Notch (1350 ft., mile 238 from Katahdin) on June 19th. By far my coldest night on the trail, even colder than Roan High Knob Shelter, highest on the AT at 6194 ft. So, best to aim for camping in the mid-elevations in my opinion.

So, it largely depends on when you start and how tolerant you are of cold. I live in Minnesota, so I'm a bit desensitized...

Righteous (AT SOBO '13)

[George]

if you hike southbound, first you put on your rain gear, then your insulating layer, and base layer/ underwear on the outside - just the opposite of NOBO hikers - this makes it very easy to distinguish the two - no need to even check for the identifying chip sobo's wear on their shoulder

[wtrenda]

Glad this got rehashed. I had been really struggling over the last 3 months wondering what genius would come through with a groundbreaking idea. So it's rainwear first then mid layer then baselayer. That really changes opinions there, it does.


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[George]

Sobo's have the right idea: show off the frilly undies instead of hiding them

[trailmercury]

13 oz for the jacket and 5.5 oz for the vest. Which is enough of a weight difference for me to at least consider this strategy.


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Montbell Superior Down Jacket over the patagonia...Size large is 7.6 oz on my scale...worth the extra 2.1 ounces over your vest...not that expensive...save your weight on your shelter setup if you can afford it! And your quilt seems relatively heavy if you go with the down jacket

[wtrenda]

Montbell Superior Down Jacket over the patagonia...Size large is 7.6 oz on my scale...worth the extra 2.1 ounces over your vest...not that expensive...save your weight on your shelter setup if you can afford it! And your quilt seems relatively heavy if you go with the down jacket

Thanks for the response. I think I've got my insulation figured out for my thru.


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[Dogwood]

For greater comfort and versatility go to a 4 layer torso system rather the narrower ranged less versatile 3 layer torso system you have. The more prioritizing than the saving of 6-7 oz in gear wt is versatility while covering the different environmental scenarios. If you can do that while also dropping a few ozs hooray yippee.

Here's how you might do it. Go the vest. I'd suggest a med wt synthetic or down vest with a good shell fabric that has a high quality DWR but throw into the mix a LS med wt shirt w/ a deep chest zip. I'd suggest a med wt 170-200 gm2 merino LS w/ chest zip. You will need to address cold and rain hiking in New England. Attempting to do that hiking in a jacket layered over a tee w/ a WP shell over the top might be a tough call. Trying to stay warm in only a tee w/ the RAB flashpoint over the top might not cut it for enough warmth... With the Pat Cap 1 SS tee in the mix this gives you three layers. Throw the RAB Flashpoint over the top giving you the fourth potential layer. Many more combinations addressing many more environmental conditions than your 3 layer torso approach while possibly dropping 2-4 oz depending on the wt of your med wt LS shirt.

Why the 4 oz Kavu hat and the 3 oz soft shell beanie? Cool trendy hat but consider throwing the Kavu out of the kit. Saves ya 4 ozs. That cold and windy you have a hood on the RAB Flashpoint. Add in 2 oz nylon running gloves. This addresses your upper half extremities and torso for warmth and greater versatility while dropping the ozs you seek Win Win Win

Unless I missed something what's your plan for hiking in rain for the lower half? Just get wet? How might that go over in The Whites? How about should wind pick up at higher elev areas when it's raining and the temps drop in the evening?

[trailmercury]

Montbell Superior Down Jacket over the patagonia

meaning ditch the Nano in favor of the Montbell...not wear it on top of the other.
re-reading my post confused myself!

[wtrenda]

For greater comfort and versatility go to a 4 layer torso system rather the narrower ranged less versatile 3 layer torso system you have. The more prioritizing than the saving of 6-7 oz in gear wt is versatility while covering the different environmental scenarios. If you can do that while also dropping a few ozs hooray yippee.

Here's how you might do it. Go the vest. I'd suggest a med wt synthetic or down vest with a good shell fabric that has a high quality DWR but throw into the mix a LS med wt shirt w/ a deep chest zip. I'd suggest a med wt 170-200 gm2 merino LS w/ chest zip. You will need to address cold and rain hiking in New England. Attempting to do that hiking in a jacket layered over a tee w/ a WP shell over the top might be a tough call. Trying to stay warm in only a tee w/ the RAB flashpoint over the top might not cut it for enough warmth... With the Pat Cap 1 SS tee in the mix this gives you three layers. Throw the RAB Flashpoint over the top giving you the fourth potential layer. Many more combinations addressing many more environmental conditions than your 3 layer torso approach while possibly dropping 2-4 oz depending on the wt of your med wt LS shirt.

Why the 4 oz Kavu hat and the 3 oz soft shell beanie? Cool trendy hat but consider throwing the Kavu out of the kit. Saves ya 4 ozs. That cold and windy you have a hood on the RAB Flashpoint. Add in 2 oz nylon running gloves. This addresses your upper half extremities and torso for warmth and greater versatility while dropping the ozs you seek Win Win Win

Unless I missed something what's your plan for hiking in rain for the lower half? Just get wet? How might that go over in The Whites? How about should wind pick up at higher elev areas when it's raining and the temps drop in the evening?

I like the idea of a 4 layer system. I'll have to see how it works around here. My gear list has changed a bit since this was posted (lost the Kavu, literally, a couple weeks ago) and I am probably doing a Rain kilt which had not been figured out at the time.


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