Wingfoot's Trail guide?

[Jack Tarlin]

Panzer is correct; most Trail maps are double-sided, which would leave little or no spare space for town information.

Also, the maps are designed and published by local Trail Clubs, and most of these folks probably don't want to get into providing town info on the maps as there would be inevitable arguments and disagreements over which places to include and which to omit. In some cases, trail maintainers and local club members actually own some of these hiker facilities, and in some circles it might not be seen as proper for the maps put out by these clubs to be seen listing (i.e. "endorsing") certain facilities, or omitting others. Lastly, the map sets for each particular section are re-done and revised every four or five years, so maps that had Town facilities and businesses printed on them would inevitably contain false or out-of-date information (like places that were no longer in business) and would also be incomplete as they wouldn't reflect new businesses either.

The great advantage to the standard Trail Guides is that they're constantly being up-dated and revised, with obsolete information hopefully removed, and new information added. This is especially true with the Thru-Hikers Companion, where each section of the Trail is re-vised every year by someone who either lives in that particular neck of the woods; is intimately familiar with the section, or has just finished hiking it.

In short, the standard guides contain an extraordinary ammount of useful information, which is why most thru-hikers elect to carry and use one or the other.

[DavidNH]

I just received to day my copy of the 2006 thru hikers handbook.

I have given a brief review so far and it looks like a wonderful resource. Got the milages and all the info and its well indexed with info on towns and services.

I wonder one thing..The 2006 ATC data book that I also bought..was that a waste of money since I have all the milages in the handbook? (at time I bought the data book I didn't know the handbook had all the milages!). Any advantage to carrying both? I don't see any..as it is all in the handbook.

Between the handbook and Jacks re-supply articles I have all I need now to map out my fat chance schedule for my thru! yippee!!! gonna get into this this weekend!

David

[TJ aka Teej]

Nothing new, same old same old.

Jack. Your obsession with me is unhealthy. Have you really tracked and timed all my postings? That's sick, dude.
First, the 'useless' phrase was used by another hiker about another book. In the most simple of basic high school leval debate tricks I turned his phrase around. Sorry it was over your head, like much of the politics talk going on that you have "a stick up your ass" about, Jack. Now, then. The first, the very first, mention by me of HeWhoShallNotBeNamed came over six months (not as you claim, "the moment") after I came here. I have not started a thread about him since, and have let the vast majority of topics about him and his book pass by without comment. To correct more of your mistakes: I was never 'kicked off Trailplace', no matter what Dan has shared with you in those late night IM sessions. Dan Bruce did start an email effort to discredit me (in which Jack participated,) and he has a doctored email about me posted on his website. For some bizzare reason, Jack wants to bring up old news. So now, please, for the sake of this website - please no one take Jack's bait and respond to the topic he's trying to stir up. Email Jack off list. For info about the merits, and debate thereof, of WF's book, please have Jack email you the links to the old posts. And please, no matter how much Jack tries, let's keep the political stuff in the politics forum.

[TJ aka Teej]

I wonder one thing..The 2006 ATC data book that I also bought..was that a waste of money since I have all the milages in the handbook?

Jack? Do I have your permission to respond?

[Panzer1]

Also,
I'm guessing that the paper that the maps are on is expensive paper and the paper that the trail guides are on is cheap paper. Combining the 2 onto the more expensive map paper would probably raise the cost of the final product. Hikers, being the cheapest people I know, would probably avoid this more expensive version.

Panzer

[Jack Tarlin]

Respond all you wish, Teej, you don't need my permission to make an ass out of yourself. You do that fine on your own.

You ARE indeed obsessed with Bruce, Teej, and anyone who's been here awhile knows is.

Case in point:

Tudor starts this thread by asking if Wingfoot is still publishing his book and if it's coming out soon. That's all he wants to know. Not the history of the Handbook. Not Dan Bruce's biography. And not anyone's opinion of him.

You immediately, and I mean IMMEDIATELY start making snotty anti-Wingfoot remarks, ignoring Tudor's simple questions.

Shortly after that, Tudor suggests that he doesn't like the nasty turn the thread has taken (thanx to you), and that as the thread has served its original purpose, perhaps it should be closed.

And YOU of all people have the nerve to immediately write that you think this is a good idea! How magnanimous of you! First you hijack and ruin a thread, and then you agree that it's no longer serving its purpose, when it's you who got it off track in the first place with your bitterness and bile.

Of course, pretty soon, you're back to making more snotty comments, despite the fact that the guy who started the thread has announced that it's been hijacked, and despite the fact that you have agreed with him!

Jesus, Teej, enough all ready. You're still angry half a decade later about being thrown off a silly website!

Get over it and stop being such a mewling infant. If the worse thing that's happened to you in five years is getting tossed over a minor outdoor Internet site, istead of bitching so much, you should consider yourself a lucky man.

[smokymtnsteve]

letz talk about dat thar warren doyle fellar..didn't he walk the ENTIRE trail more than anybody else including ole wingdinger??

[Nean]

Teej, I'm shocked!

[attroll]

Please guys lets try and keep on the subject here on this thread. It always seems that when ever the name Wingfoot is mentioned the same people have to get into a pissing contest with each other. If you want to do that then please take it to the other Wingfoot thread that you already ruined.

[TJ aka Teej]

Tudor suggests that he doesn't like the nasty turn the thread has taken (thanx to you), and that as the thread has served its original purpose, perhaps it should be closed.

And YOU of all people have the nerve to immediately write that you think this is a good idea!

I was anticipating you joining the thread.

[Lone Wolf]

Let's put Warren Doyle's name in place of Wingfoot's and see who makes an ass out of themselves. See who trashes who.

[TJ aka Teej]

The 2006 ATC data book that I also bought..was that a waste of money since I have all the milages in the handbook?

Dan Chazin's AT Databook, published by the ATC, deserves the support of the AT community. The reasons for doing so were discussed here a while back, in a thread I started. Search the media forum for Wingfoot and Databook. Let's not open that can of worms again by starting to post about it, please.

[general]

Well, a lot of the maps have more maps on the reverse side, elevation profiles, legends and maybe a small amount of stuff that would be "useless to the long distance hiker", but eliminating that stuff would give you only a small amount of additional space to put new stuff that someone else with a trail book would find useless.

Panzer

the thru-hiker's handbook 8oz
Appalachian Trail Thru-Hikers' Companion 8oz
Appalachian Trail Data Book 2000 ed 2 1/2 oz
Appalachian Trail Conference waterproof map 1 3/4 oz heaviest in set
to get you through the next mail drop or two or three
as is now, with no modification, carrying a map+data book weighs half as much as either book. my point is: take said map, put said town data on said map, and you save over 6 oz.

[khaynie]

You guys are hilarious...and quite entertaining I might add.

[warren doyle]

Interesting thread to read.

Lone Wolf (#111) - I admire your ability to say so much with so few words.

smokymtnsteve (#117) - Yes, I have walked the entire AT more than anyone else - 14 times (8 thrus; 6 section hikes). Ward Leonard is next with 10 traverses of the entire trail.

Dan Bruce (Sorry, I mean Warren Doyle).

[weary]

....Yes, I have walked the entire AT more than anyone else - 14 times (8 thrus; 6 section hikes). Ward Leonard is next with 10 traverses of the entire trail.

Does anyone know how -- and what -- Ward is doing these days?

[A-Train]

David-

Buying the Data book wasn't a waste of money. Yes Wingfoot's book has the data book basically included, as well as much other information. Take the Wingfoot (or sections of it) with you on your hike. Then, leave the data book at home. Family or friends can use it to track your progress, or understand what you're talking about when you call home. If they need to meet up with you on or near the trail, they can figure out how long it will take you to get somewhere. Also, you supported the ATC which is a GOOD thing.
I left an old version of the Wingfoot at home with my mom while I hiked and she loved having it. She would anticipate where I'd be next and knew what I was talking about when I called home. Made her feel a lot better about the whole thing.

[Mags]

I left an old version of the Wingfoot at home with my mom while I hiked and she loved having it. She would anticipate where I'd be next and knew what I was talking about when I called home. Made her feel a lot better about the whole thing.

Excellent idea! I forgotten I had done that myself. Dad loved being able to see where I was and what I was up to. Initially, the folks were apprehensive about the trip. Being able to follow along and participate on some level helped their fears quite a bit.

I gave them a 1996 copy, I used the (then current) 1998. Man..it is has been too long.

BTW: Earlier in this thread, posted what I think is a balanced look at the guidebooks (page 2, post #38). Long story short: they are both good. The companion is a bit more current, the handbook has one voice so it tends to be better written. In the end, it is not the guidebook that matters..it is the hiker.

[Nean]

Does anyone know how -- and what -- Ward is doing these days?

I haven't heard anything concrete in a long while. Hope he is doing as well as possible. I'd be interested too.

[Jack Tarlin]

Actually, Wolf, you're quite wrong with your pithy coment above, and so is Warren.

For example, as recently as yesterday, Mr. Doyle's name came up on another thread; somebody wanted to know the cost of his "Institute" sessions.

I answered their question and provided them with the information they were looking for. Mr. Doyle himself posted that the information I provided was correct.

Did I use this opportunity to give my thoughts on Mr. Doyle, his Institute, his advice to prospective hikers, his behavior on the Trail, or anything else?

No, I didn't, and for good reason. That's not what the poster wanted to know, and whatever my feelings may or may not be about Doyle, it would have been inappropriate to have added these comments at this time......a guy had a simple question, and I answered it.

Another example: A few days ago another guy wanted the phone number of a hiker facility down south. Despite my fairly well-known feelings about the place in question, did I take the opportunity to share my feelings about the place, to tell him the history of the establishment, or to advise him to patronize another business?

No, I didn't, and you know why I didn't? Because 1) It would have been inappropriate; 2) It's an old and tired discussion that nobody's interested in hearing again, and most of all, 3) It's not what the original poster wanted to know. Again, he had a very simple question, I had the answer at hand, so I gave him the information that he needed.

Teej or anyone else is of course entitled to give their opinion on anything they wish here at Whiteblaze. All I'm saying is that I think things would flow smoother if people stayed to the subject more, and addressed particular questions with particular answers.

It's no secret that Teej has a beef with Dan Bruce, which is due entirely to his peevishness over getting thrown off of Bruce's website. If he wishes to hold a years-old grudge over something so silly, there's nothing I can do about it, except wish that he expressed his peevishness at the appropriate time and place.

Oh, and I loved his comment above, when he admonishes another poster about opening "a can of worms" that's been discussed previously, as tho Tej's complainta about Bruce have never been made before! David actually asked a fair question. The answer is that he probably doesn't need the Data Book as well, tho some folks elect to carry both as many folks seem to find the Data Book's mileage charts easier on the eye when figuring out distances or daily itineraries; many folks also use the data Book as a mini journal, where they comment on where they camped, how many miles they achieved each day, etc.

Lastly, I'm REALLY amused at post #110, where Teej he says he "anticipated" my joining the thread. Actually, Teej, I didn't join the thread after you ruined it. I'd actually joined the thread BEFORE you arrived and started flinging mud; I was actually the third person to post on this thread, and my post was around two sentences long......I answered the questions posted by the guy who started the thread, and that was it. No comments about Bruce, his book, its history, its competition, or my own personal feelings about any of these subjects. What I did, was to answer the poster's simple and direct questions.

Teej should try this sometime.