1990's Speed Hikers compared to modern day Speed hikers

[OwenRunning]

Records are meant to be broken and the same goes for speed hiking the AT. I always find ti crazy that every Olympics there are a handful of Track and Field World Records that are bested, often by hundredth's of a second. This is sort of like JPD --> Jurek --> Karl only being separated by less than half a day.

I remember hearing something about Usain Bolt when he broke the 100 meter World Record by such a large margin a couple Olympics ago - smart stats people said that his time wasn't "projected" to be run until the 2050's. He was the perfect athlete to come along way ahead of schedule. So, maybe someone like that will come along on the AT and drop the record by a couple days?

Records are meant to be broken and when something is standard, like the AT route, or the marathon distance, etc., competition raises the bar and then everyone else who competes in that activity aims for it, trains for it, and goes for it. When there is XXX amount of people going for one goal, one of them, or a handful, is bound to be capable to get raise the bar even more. Yes, gear, etc. helps AT current AT record holders, but its the progression that is meant to be.

[Wolf - 23000]

I believe I remember seeing some of that info before...

Tough part these days... especially on the big three... is that it is slightly irresponsible to advocate any serious minimalism due to impact.
I have done a few "blanket trips" as some call them- a wool blanket and a knife with minimal food. While I could likely travel the AT (during summers) and be confident I could likely shelter myself with just a knife- that isn't productive.
Sears and Kephart were mentioned earlier in the thread as SUL pioneers too... however cutting a browse bed and lopping a few saplings for a shelter is more parlor trick/good knowledge than practical travel method. What has really changed is that we can travel just as light as them without the impact. That is today's SUL challenge- to travel lightly in both impact and weight when using established trails. (I'm still a proponent of some practice and bending of the rules when well off the beaten path- but that is something one does- not advocates or discusses in a such a public place).

That said- I would be interested in Wolf's experiences and gear choices (in the LNT context).
Not saying that's the case- but if making browse beds or similar (even duff beds) is the reason to leave a mat at home- that's a private matter.
If I have to throw down; I suggest a Neo-Air, even if some of us know there are other ways to get it done- those are best kept to ourselves.

Just Bill,

I’m not sure where you are getting your information that SUL or UL has any more impact than backpacking with a 25 – 50 pound backpack. UL or SUL backpacking can be done with the same no-trace approach as traditional backpacking. The problem I see more is many UL/lightweight backpackers that promote the minimal approach often bail out if the weather is not perfect or rely on SAR heavy. I’m not a believer in either approach but that is also a different thread.

If you worry about someone trying the Bear Grylls, Sears or Kephart approach. I can’t see the approach working to well if you are trying to cover distance. A wool blanket by itself should be heavier than what any UL backpacker should be carrying with all his/her gear combine. I have seen a few hikers try this approach to much simple degree. They don’t get very far because it is hard to do any kind of miles when you have to worry about gathering food, making shelter, warmth.

To address your impact concerns, well I do promote the no-trace-camping belief. I already complete the Appalachian Trail and PCT multiple times under the 5 pound mark back in the 1989. Over the years, as I gather more experience and equipment has gotten lighter, I’ve trim down my base weight to now I don’t even notice I have a pack on. In a few years I will be able to return back to the trail life. The less impact on the trail, well it is in all of our best interest to preserve the trails. I’m not sure if you knew this but I do teach a course on "Responsible Lightweight Backpacking". I’ve given it several times as a volunteer. It is one way I look at to try giving back to the trail. I’m also not a big fan of people who advocate serious minimalism irresponsible. Someone who having to bail out because the weather is not perfect or rely on others to bail them out, I call that just irresponsible.

My gear choices are simple based on where, what time of year, and what I am after from my hike. When I started this thread, I was interest in past vs present. Back in the 1990 few hikers ran while carrying full pack. The speed hikers either hiked fasted or where supported. If you look at the current unsupported records, none of the hikers/runners really traveled what I would consider UL or extremely XUL. A backpack maybe not the lightest but is better designed to handled someone running. You mention earlier that shifting the bulk of the weight on the hips might have some benefit. That might be one of the improves made between past vs present speed hikers.

Wolf

[Wolf - 23000]

Records are meant to be broken and the same goes for speed hiking the AT. I always find ti crazy that every Olympics there are a handful of Track and Field World Records that are bested, often by hundredth's of a second. This is sort of like JPD --> Jurek --> Karl only being separated by less than half a day.

I remember hearing something about Usain Bolt when he broke the 100 meter World Record by such a large margin a couple Olympics ago - smart stats people said that his time wasn't "projected" to be run until the 2050's. He was the perfect athlete to come along way ahead of schedule. So, maybe someone like that will come along on the AT and drop the record by a couple days?

Records are meant to be broken and when something is standard, like the AT route, or the marathon distance, etc., competition raises the bar and then everyone else who competes in that activity aims for it, trains for it, and goes for it. When there is XXX amount of people going for one goal, one of them, or a handful, is bound to be capable to get raise the bar even more. Yes, gear, etc. helps AT current AT record holders, but its the progression that is meant to be.

OwenRunning,

I can see your point that a perfect athlete came along, but it seems like more than just one. It more like several.

It is also a little hard for me to see from my own experiences working with some young adults just out of high school. When working as a Drill SGT 10 years ago, many young adults could not even do 13 push-ups, or could not run 2 miles in less than 25 minutes. Many came from sitting on the couch playing PlayStation or X-Box all day long. Even walking on any of the major trails, it is hard to go even a day without seeing someone talking on their cell phone. On top of that, several perfect athletes come along who are able to set new records. Maybe it is a better training program or better vitamins to help someone recover faster. I don't know. I'm just curious.

Wolf

[Dogwood]

Speed hikers of the 1990's were largely endurance backpackers/hikers that had their hikes dialed in. Lately, unsupported FKTers seem to be more in the mold of elite endurance athletes some of professional or semi pro status with many notable names having running back rounds.

[Dogwood]

If you go to Peter Bakwin's FKT site it's heavily laden with running terminology - a very influential FKT trail site. In thread after thread after thread note how often the word "running" or "runner" is heavily carpet bombed throughout. As such there's heavy interest in trail running records within the running community which it would seem to me will eventually dominate supported FKT trail records. Runners, after the elite of the elite, whittle down supported FKT's, will likely IMO, with the aid of previous thru-hikers, or having previous knowledge of thru-hiking a trail themselves, will perceive unsupported FKTs as possible low hanging ripe fruit. Even those like Pharr Davis or "Flying Brian" have been heavily influenced by the running community as both went on to having greater running interests.

[Just Bill]

Just Bill,

I’m not sure where you are getting your information that SUL or UL has any more impact than backpacking with a 25 – 50 pound backpack. UL or SUL backpacking can be done with the same no-trace approach as traditional backpacking. The problem I see more is many UL/lightweight backpackers that promote the minimal approach often bail out if the weather is not perfect or rely on SAR heavy. I’m not a believer in either approach but that is also a different thread.

If you worry about someone trying the Bear Grylls, Sears or Kephart approach. I can’t see the approach working to well if you are trying to cover distance. A wool blanket by itself should be heavier than what any UL backpacker should be carrying with all his/her gear combine. I have seen a few hikers try this approach to much simple degree. They don’t get very far because it is hard to do any kind of miles when you have to worry about gathering food, making shelter, warmth.

To address your impact concerns, well I do promote the no-trace-camping belief. I already complete the Appalachian Trail and PCT multiple times under the 5 pound mark back in the 1989. Over the years, as I gather more experience and equipment has gotten lighter, I’ve trim down my base weight to now I don’t even notice I have a pack on. In a few years I will be able to return back to the trail life. The less impact on the trail, well it is in all of our best interest to preserve the trails. I’m not sure if you knew this but I do teach a course on "Responsible Lightweight Backpacking". I’ve given it several times as a volunteer. It is one way I look at to try giving back to the trail. I’m also not a big fan of people who advocate serious minimalism irresponsible. Someone who having to bail out because the weather is not perfect or rely on others to bail them out, I call that just irresponsible.

My gear choices are simple based on where, what time of year, and what I am after from my hike. When I started this thread, I was interest in past vs present. Back in the 1990 few hikers ran while carrying full pack. The speed hikers either hiked fasted or where supported. If you look at the current unsupported records, none of the hikers/runners really traveled what I would consider UL or extremely XUL. A backpack maybe not the lightest but is better designed to handled someone running. You mention earlier that shifting the bulk of the weight on the hips might have some benefit. That might be one of the improves made between past vs present speed hikers.

Wolf

Wolf- glad to hear- and interested in hearing more about your methods.
I agree fully that the survival style trip isn't really of much value day to day (though the skills are good to have). I suppose with "bushcrafting" becoming a popular hobby I worry about what folks think minimal travel means, so that was my concern although it seems that concern is unwarranted in your case.

I think if there is a difference regarding your statement above in bold:
One thing that has changed is a blurring between those two general backrounds and skillsets (backpacker or runner). Two folks jump out to my mind as pretty clear examples:

Jennifer Pharr Davis was on her third thru-hike of the trail when she set the overall supported effort. Though she did so in a much different style than those before her or even since. Her support crew was mainly her husband Brew and they tackled the task much more as a backpacker would... long days, low MPH, little if any running and treated the support aspect more like an extended series of slackpacking/dayhiking rather than an "aid station to aid station" back to the hotel/van style of the runners. She does not identify as a runner nor has any real running background on any competitive level. I still think that her approach overall was novel and contrasts sharply with the others who have held the supported record. If nothing else, her willingness to camp each night on the trail as any other hiker would is something the typical supported FKT attempt has yet to adopt well.

Matt Kirk does have a background as a ultrarunner in the Western North Carolina area and holds several trail records (including beating Horton's "most miles in 24 hours on the AT" at 99). So it would be hard to say that Matt is not a "runner". But his self-supported hike was also his third thru-hike of the AT and his style is much more exemplary of the "fastpacker" - a minimalist backpacker who can still care for himself. His trip is probably the closest UL or XUL trip you will likely find to examine in terms of not only bringing light gear but being competent and comfortable with it. His gear list for his FKT : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...A-I/edit#gid=0

In the 90's...
Ward was clearly a backpacker- sleeping on trail, putting in long days, sleeping on trail and walking.
Horton was clearly a runner- going from "station to station", sleeping in hotels, running, and approaching things like a long Ultra.

Now...
It'd be hard to call Jen a runner, it'd be hard to say that Matt is not... but both of those trips adopted the best of each style and blurred the lines between the groups. So if you're looking for something "new" that's probably the only thing I can truly identify.

As you say and prove- gear is gear. The most efficient pack list is fairly timeless and little changed perhaps.
People are people- the best among us are driven, tough, focused and motivated... though having a time to beat in front of you by nature drives us further than the person before us.

I think you would find a Jurek or Meltzer little different in style than someone like Horton perhaps.

I think you might find someone like Anish a bit more like Ward, though she has taken up some running from what I hear, she doesn't travel SUL but does use what works for her.

I personally thing Matt and Jen (both from WNC) to be their own category of folks- with a unique style that comes from that very active trail running community around Asheville.

Otherwise, the trail is the trail...
One common thing amongst all those who set a record on the AT is that the trail is very special to them. It's much more than a race, and anyone I've seen try to simply race has failed.