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  1. #21
    CDT - 2013, PCT - 2009, AT - 1300 miles done burger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    I agree with you entirely that Quimby could and did throw long term leaseholders off the land, she did it years ago when she bought it. It just was one of many things that did not win her any fans.
    I'll bet that Quimby has a lot more fans than haters today. Like I said, find another park to whine about.

  2. #22
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    Second, NPS has ZERO control over development outside of the park on private lands

    I guess the Doctor isn't familiar with PSD permitting

    [I]Class I areas are areas of special national or regional natural, scenic, recreational, or historic value for which the PSD regulations provide special protection. The Federal Land Manager (FLM), including the State or Indian governing body, where applicable, is responsible for defining specific Air Quality Related Values (AQRV's) for an area and for establishing the criteria to determine an adverse impact on the AQRV's. If a FLM determines that a source will adversely impact AQRV's in a Class I area, the FLM may recommend that the permitting agency deny issuance of the permit, even in cases where no applicable increments would be exceeded. However, the permitting authority makes the final decision to issue or deny the permit.

    Source https://www.epa.gov/nsr/prevention-s...ic-information

    "Class I Area: In the context of the prevention of significant deterioration program, all state air quality jurisdictions are divided into three classes of air quality protection. Class I areas are special areas of natural wonder and scenic beauty, such as national parks, national monuments, and wilderness areas, where air quality should be given special protection. Class I areas are subject to maximum limits on air quality degradation called air quality increments (often referred to as PSD increments). These air quality increments are more stringent than national ambient air quality standards (more so in Class I areas than Class II areas)."

    Source http://www.arb.ca.gov/bact/docs/definitions.htm

    This wasn't in effect in that region prior to the designation and is now in effect today. Another hurdle against anyone attempting to redevelop the remnants of the GNP operations.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    the FLM may recommend that the permitting agency deny issuance of the permit, even in cases where no applicable increments would be exceeded. However, the permitting authority makes the final decision to issue or deny the permit.

    ...
    Class I areas are subject to maximum limits on air quality degradation called air quality increments (often referred to as PSD increments).
    ...
    Another hurdle against anyone attempting to redevelop the remnants of the GNP operations.
    Somebody wants to "redevelop the remnants of the GNP operations" with something that pollutes the air outside the new monument? Who? And why would you want them to?
    Teej

    "[ATers] represent three percent of our use and about twenty percent of our effort," retired Baxter Park Director Jensen Bissell.

  4. #24
    CDT - 2013, PCT - 2009, AT - 1300 miles done burger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    Second, NPS has ZERO control over development outside of the park on private lands

    I guess the Doctor isn't familiar with PSD permitting

    [I]Class I areas are areas of special national or regional natural, scenic, recreational, or historic value for which the PSD regulations provide special protection. The Federal Land Manager (FLM), including the State or Indian governing body, where applicable, is responsible for defining specific Air Quality Related Values (AQRV's) for an area and for establishing the criteria to determine an adverse impact on the AQRV's. If a FLM determines that a source will adversely impact AQRV's in a Class I area, the FLM may recommend that the permitting agency deny issuance of the permit, even in cases where no applicable increments would be exceeded. However, the permitting authority makes the final decision to issue or deny the permit.

    Source https://www.epa.gov/nsr/prevention-s...ic-information

    "Class I Area: In the context of the prevention of significant deterioration program, all state air quality jurisdictions are divided into three classes of air quality protection. Class I areas are special areas of natural wonder and scenic beauty, such as national parks, national monuments, and wilderness areas, where air quality should be given special protection. Class I areas are subject to maximum limits on air quality degradation called air quality increments (often referred to as PSD increments). These air quality increments are more stringent than national ambient air quality standards (more so in Class I areas than Class II areas)."

    Source http://www.arb.ca.gov/bact/docs/definitions.htm

    This wasn't in effect in that region prior to the designation and is now in effect today. Another hurdle against anyone attempting to redevelop the remnants of the GNP operations.
    Your second quote there is from California. If a new monument is going to affect air pollution permits in CA, I'll be a monkey's uncle (oh, wait, I am--thanks, Darwin.)

    As for restricting development, these regulations only come into play if there are air quality issues in a park, and they only affect major pollution sources. Are there air quality problems in central Maine now? I doubt it. But, more importantly, are you actually arguing that bad air quality is somehow okay? You do realize, I hope, that air pollution has tremendous and well-documented negative impacts on human health.

    Anyway, feel free to comment on, but I'm done here. We (park supporters) won and you (provincial people looking out for their own self-interest) lost. Move on, dude.

  5. #25

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    I just found this local take in the Bangor daily news: https://bangordailynews.com/2016/08/...onal-monument/
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    I just found this local take in the Bangor daily news: https://bangordailynews.com/2016/08/...onal-monument/
    Ole Man and Navigator from the AT lodge!
    Teej

    "[ATers] represent three percent of our use and about twenty percent of our effort," retired Baxter Park Director Jensen Bissell.

  7. #27
    Registered User Ktaadn's Avatar
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    I just can't figure out the people that think they should control something that they don't own. If they wanted to have a huge hunting preserve, they should have bought the land themselves and done that.

    Complaining about losing your "heritage" of working in a paper mill? Really? This is like the people that complain about decline in coal mining jobs. These aren't good jobs. You really want your child to grow up and work in a coal mine? Times change, the economy evolves.

    If anyone wants to buy up all of the land around my house and turn it into a National Park, please do. Few things would make me happier.

  8. #28
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    Debates aside...

    I'm just happy that a chunk of some of the most wild lands left in the Northeast US is now accessible.

    Remote, little or not light pollution and I suspect lots of wildlife.

    Something tells me that any trip to this destination in the autumn would be very special.
    Paul "Mags" Magnanti
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    The true harvest of my life is intangible...a little stardust caught,a portion of the rainbow I have clutched -Thoreau

  9. #29
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    No need to wait, just drive up to Baxter and head up on the Golden road, 1/4 of the state of Maine accessed by it. No state roads and few if any areas with power past Abol Bridge. The NM tract is quite small when compared to the entire region that already open to visit. There is a private entity that manages the area that does charge a road fee but I expect at some point the NM will have to charge a fee. There are actually quite a few large conservation easements in the area. Usually all you do is pay a gate fee to North Maine Woods and then you can go anywhere you want in the region unless there is active logging. Unfortunately there is a nascent spruce budworm epidemic in the region so it best to go quick as if it hits like the last one, large tracts will be dead trees probably similar to what the folks out west are seeing. That region was the refuge for moose when they were basically exterpreated from the rest of New England for 80 or 90 years. The Canadian lynx has moved back into the area as they have a decided preference for actively logged lands as it generates good snowshoe hare habitat. There are occasional gray wolf/coyotes hybrids sightings but it open to debate how prevalent they are compared to coyotes. It in the far northern range for whitetail deer so they are present but tend to get hit hard by cold winters.

    The best way to visualize this area is go on Google Earth and search for Millinocket, now zoom out until you can see the Canadian border, now draw a line north to the border and another line west to the Maine NH line and that's roughly delineates the undeveloped places with only one state highway (RT 27 near Jackman), almost no power and darn few people. By comparison the MN does have a few towns to the east, Patten and Sherman and the Millinockets to the south. It still would be darker than most folks have seen but head over to the St John River or the Allagash Wilderness Water way area and the potential is there for even darker skies.

    The NM land was purchased cheap after the last budworm epidemic, its going to take awhile before it approaches mature woods, it you zoom in on the area you will see plenty of evidence of heavy cutting. The views may be nice now but give it 50 years or so to recover. Baxter State Park was bought in patches and there were active cutting rights up until the nineteen seventies but going through it these days it definitely seems to have healed up nicely.

  10. #30

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    And a map of the monument:

    https://www.nps.gov/kaww/planyourvisit/maps.htm

    Looks like plenty of campsites and shelters on the IAT.

    BSP is just to the west.

    Cosmo

  11. #31
    Registered User Ktaadn's Avatar
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    Now that the park debate has died down a bit, can we start critiquing the name? It is too cumbersome, right? Will it be referred to as KW&W? K Dub & Dub?

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ktaadn View Post
    I just can't figure out the people that think they should control something that they don't own. If they wanted to have a huge hunting preserve, they should have bought the land themselves and done that.
    So true. They seem to feel that by transfer of this land, they somehow lost their (nonexistent) say over how the land is used (and by whom). Meanwhile in the reality-based world, Quimby could have sold it off or made it a private hunting reserve and completely cut off the locals' access. It strikes me as a bunch of selfish, presumptuous locals whom wanted it only for themselves so they could ramble around land that they somehow consider theirs by some accidental geographic birthright, while pining for the good old days (that never were).

  13. #33
    Registered User DavidNH's Avatar
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    this is a great day. The Maine Woods National Monument is today a reality. With great gratitude to Ms. Quimby (who purchased the land and then gave it to the federal government) and to President Obama who created this national monument with the stroke of a pen!

    As for Mainers.. even Baxter State Park would not exist if many of them had their way. The late Gov. Baxter had to secretly buy up land and then donate it to the state to be kept forever wild.

    There are things in life that have more value than can possibly be measured in material/financial terms. The north Maine Woods is one of them. There is a paradise up there!

    DavidNH

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