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  1. #2281
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    Several possibilities that without fresh blood tests we'll never really know.

  2. #2282
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    Sorry mistake!!
    those forensic labs can do amazing stuff with only a few a few cells to work with.

  3. #2283
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    She was either dead, captured, or not cognitive during the search. No way does she not get found if she has the cognitive ability to make herself known to SAR. Seriously she had a whistle, SAR members had whistles that must of been in ear range. 2,100' from the AT. Probably much closer as members of SAR had to of searches off trail at least a few hundred feet on both sides of the AT. Additionally she would of made a fire, and hung her red coat where it would be seen. On top of all this there were personal using the SERE training facility at the time. Does anyone know if the Navy participated in any SAR work? Perhaps some of these guys were trained in rescuing air crews. You would think they would of helped if they were notified.
    03/07/13 - 10/07/13 Flip flop AT thru hike "It is well with my soul"

  4. #2284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Driven View Post
    She was either dead, captured, or not cognitive during the search. No way does she not get found if she has the cognitive ability to make herself known to SAR. Seriously she had a whistle, SAR members had whistles that must of been in ear range. 2,100' from the AT. Probably much closer as members of SAR had to of searches off trail at least a few hundred feet on both sides of the AT. Additionally she would of made a fire, and hung her red coat where it would be seen. On top of all this there were personal using the SERE training facility at the time. Does anyone know if the Navy participated in any SAR work? Perhaps some of these guys were trained in rescuing air crews. You would think they would of helped if they were notified.
    While I agree with your speculation that she was likely deceased or incapacitated prior to the rescue effort, I don't understand the "captured" remark. Captured by what or whom? And note that I label my thoughts as speculation as well. Because we will very likely never know the details. To answer your other question, yes, SERE personnel participated in the search.

    Here's the ME investigative report https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...r-s-Report.pdf

    as linked to at AppalachianTrail.com website http://appalachiantrail.com/20160202...aminer-report/
    Last edited by 4eyedbuzzard; 02-09-2016 at 18:04.
    I was self employed once, but it proved too stressful. My boss was a jerk and my employee was a slacker - I didn't know whether to quit or fire myself.

  5. #2285

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    They found her phone correct? Maybe she cycled it on and off and wrote a few messages, including the details of her situation? Her personal effects were returned but not all information released due to privacy concerns. At the moment, it seems like the level of information provided to the family was sufficient for them. It also seems that it was sufficient to the authorities in order to make a determination of death. The family and the authorities are in the know so to speak, it would be good to keep that in mind before posting.
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  6. #2286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don H View Post
    "The scene is a campsite in a small clearing within a heavily wooded area. The site is positioned on a knoll about midway up a southwest-facing slope which rises fairly sharply away from a stream" page 2, Medical Examiner's Report.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adriana View Post
    The exact wording was
    So it does not specify by distance the proximity to water..........................
    Thanks both of you. I wonder if she was aware of the stream.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  7. #2287
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    Ok let me speculate, SERE training by design is the most demanding, grueling, psychological test of endurance ever designed by our government. Preparation for potential capture, by one of our enemies demands this kind of testing. All human beings are different, and some can endure this kind of test while others might experience a psychological break down. Someone who has been captured, sleep deprived, calorie deprived, ruthlessly interigated, manages to escape their captors. Now on the run hungry in the fog of war, encounters "Inchworm" and perceives her as something other then she is, and snaps, and a struggle ensue's. Something unimaginable happens.

    What makes me so suspicious is that they are so quick to conclude, in October it was exposure, even though they must of known then she was found in her sleeping bag in her tent. Now the story has changed that over time she just sub comes to the elements of the wilderness. And the vanishing hands and arms that might bare defensive wounds. When I was in the USAF we trained for a multiple of scenario's in defense of our missile wing. In the heat of simulated war my m60 Jambs up, I take my gloves off to clear it and get back into the fight. When it was all done with my hands were all frost bitten, because even in the fog of mock war, adrenaline flows and training becomes reality while it is happening, and I did not even think to put my gloves back on. Has NCIS ever interviewed the SERE personal who were there when she dissapered? I can not find a record of that. It appears the 1st involvement with NCIS was after the remains were discovered, after most of the SERE personal been deployed all over the world. Why no record of SERE interviews? Most of the hikers who were in the vicinity got interviewed, but not SERE.

    In my mind this is as plausible as subcoming to the elements. Especially in the absence of SERE interviews.
    03/07/13 - 10/07/13 Flip flop AT thru hike "It is well with my soul"

  8. #2288
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    Quote Originally Posted by squeezebox View Post
    Sorry mistake!!
    those forensic labs can do amazing stuff with only a few a few cells to work with.
    Mostly on TV.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  9. #2289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Driven View Post
    Ok let me speculate, SERE training by design is the most demanding, grueling, psychological test of endurance ever designed by our government. Preparation for potential capture, by one of our enemies demands this kind of testing. All human beings are different, and some can endure this kind of test while others might experience a psychological break down. Someone who has been captured, sleep deprived, calorie deprived, ruthlessly interigated, manages to escape their captors. Now on the run hungry in the fog of war, encounters "Inchworm" and perceives her as something other then she is, and snaps, and a struggle ensue's. Something unimaginable happens.

    What makes me so suspicious is that they are so quick to conclude, in October it was exposure, even though they must of known then she was found in her sleeping bag in her tent. Now the story has changed that over time she just sub comes to the elements of the wilderness. And the vanishing hands and arms that might bare defensive wounds. When I was in the USAF we trained for a multiple of scenario's in defense of our missile wing. In the heat of simulated war my m60 Jambs up, I take my gloves off to clear it and get back into the fight. When it was all done with my hands were all frost bitten, because even in the fog of mock war, adrenaline flows and training becomes reality while it is happening, and I did not even think to put my gloves back on. Has NCIS ever interviewed the SERE personal who were there when she dissapered? I can not find a record of that. It appears the 1st involvement with NCIS was after the remains were discovered, after most of the SERE personal been deployed all over the world. Why no record of SERE interviews? Most of the hikers who were in the vicinity got interviewed, but not SERE.

    In my mind this is as plausible as subcoming to the elements. Especially in the absence of SERE interviews.
    You need to loosen up the adjustment on your tin foil hat.
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  10. #2290
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    You need to loosen up the adjustment on your tin foil hat.
    People are people, and those going through incredible stress are as capable of foul play as hikers. So my question is the hikers who were in the vicinity were interviewed, while SERE personal aparently were not. Why?
    03/07/13 - 10/07/13 Flip flop AT thru hike "It is well with my soul"

  11. #2291

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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Driven View Post
    She was either dead, captured, or not cognitive during the search. No way does she not get found if she has the cognitive ability to make herself known to SAR. Seriously she had a whistle, SAR members had whistles that must of been in ear range. 2,100' from the AT. Probably much closer as members of SAR had to of searches off trail at least a few hundred feet on both sides of the AT. Additionally she would of made a fire, and hung her red coat where it would be seen. On top of all this there were personal using the SERE training facility at the time. Does anyone know if the Navy participated in any SAR work? Perhaps some of these guys were trained in rescuing air crews. You would think they would of helped if they were notified.
    At this point I would suggest doing a bit more background work and actually read some material on this as opposed to meandering speculations. SERE personnel did assist with the search efforts, NCIS was involved with the investigation post recovery. Credentialed investigators examined all the available evidence, credentialed medical examiners performed the autopsy. Its all available for review.

  12. #2292
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    I've heard stories about those SERE guys in Maine. Sometimes they get off base and onto the AT, they even go into the shelters. Often they mooch food from the hikers. Kinda like reverse trail magic
    "Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011

  13. #2293
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    Stories are interesting, but ... that sounds like something I'd expect to see featured in a rag like the National Inquirer. Are they factual? Can they be substantiated? Or are they trail myths?
    Miles to go before I sleep. R. Frost

  14. #2294
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    I did read the ME report, and I find it to be the most honest and objective document. Where do you think I picked up on the information of missing arms and hands? The ME findings simply state the condition of the remains are consistent with ones from who have perished in the woods and discovered two years later. No real cause of death was determined. I have yet to find anything about NCIS being involved prior to the body discovery. No record of SERE personal being interviewed. Please point me to the documents that suggest these things were done.

  15. #2295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Driven View Post
    I did read the ME report, and I find it to be the most honest and objective document. Where do you think I picked up on the information of missing arms and hands? The ME findings simply state the condition of the remains are consistent with ones from who have perished in the woods and discovered two years later. No real cause of death was determined. I have yet to find anything about NCIS being involved prior to the body discovery. No record of SERE personal being interviewed. Please point me to the documents that suggest these things were done.
    Go back to page 90 of this thread and start reading from there. Most of your questions will be answered in the posts or by linked articles. If you want more, go back and read all 114 pages. You'll get everything from CSI Whiteblaze to Ancient Alien Theorists and even some factual, well researched info as well.

    SERE personnel were involved in the search. As such, it's pretty much implicit that if any of them had seen her, they would have reported that - kind of like being asked. I doubt there was any reason to formally "interview" them. This was a search for a lost hiker, not a crime investigation. And NCIS wouldn't have any reason to be involved at all until there was either reasonable suspicion of a crime committed on Navy property, or by Navy personnel, or in this case a body being found on Navy land.

    But, let me say this: The soldiers attending SERE school aren't green recruits. Mostly they are NCO's and Officers (lots of Navy/Marine pilots) who could face a higher than normal risk of capture due to their duties and assignments/deployments. Many, if not most, probably have wives, children, and of course all of them have mothers and grandmothers - women a lot like Gerry. They are human beings, just like you and I. While they and their instructors take the training VERY seriously, they know SERE is ultimately not real. It's training and simulated, albeit very rough at times, practice. They know the exact date they'll be leaving. No matter how tough their survival training is, they just aren't going to attack and kill a lost grandma hiking in the woods.
    Last edited by 4eyedbuzzard; 02-10-2016 at 13:19.
    I was self employed once, but it proved too stressful. My boss was a jerk and my employee was a slacker - I didn't know whether to quit or fire myself.

  16. #2296

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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Driven View Post
    Why were her hands and arms not found by k9?
    I find this comment interesting. If scavengers picked up her scent in the tent, why not the dogs? There is a decay threshold at which point most mammalian scavengers will not scavenge, so if scavengers did rip open the tent I think it's pretty clear it would have happened within a month of her disappearing and it's not likely they would have carried anything particularly far from the site. Also, they likely would have returned until everything was consumed. So while I don't really buy foul play, I do find this a thought provoking point and it makes me wonder about the inability of dogs to pick her scent up from within the tent.
    "To take risks is to live, to be always safe and secure is certain death" - Edward Abbey

  17. #2297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adriana View Post
    The exact wording was
    So it does not specify by distance the proximity to water.

    It also mentions that she had collapsed lumbar vertebrae consistent with her medical history. If she had a major sciatic nerve flare-up it is conceivable that she was not able to continue hiking due to extreme pain and decided to hole up until she was found.
    Its a good observation Adriana. There are really dozens of medical reasons (someone said appendix) to explain why she might have become incapacitated, but her 'bad back' has been info we've had for years as a known malady. She could have re injured, herniated, that L4 or and/or another, severely limiting her mobility and access to water. Doesn't really explain the no whistle blast etc.

    Speaking of water (streams) she was both near and within sight of a steam, and there were others nearby including Sluice steam which parallels the AT 10 minutes from her...and of course the Orbeton. Its confirmed as some of us have been out there to the spot. There was also intense rain during a few of the days in the few weeks of the search. A reasonably savy person such as herself could have captured a decent amount of water from that.

    Speaking of savy, Inchworm did attend the Warren Doyle class, I forget how many. Among the many instructions she received, one that is unique to Warren and the AT is his constant advice for lost hikers to self rescue by traveling downhill and following moving bodies of water downhill. On the east coast and the AT, you can self rescue from the AT at any point this way in a relatively short period of time with 100% success as long as no new variables are added to your plight and a reasonable level of caution is applied. Inchworm didn't or couldn't do this unfortunately.

    Son Driven you kinda came out of nowhere welcome. I don't recall see you post much here but its hard to keep track. The missing hands etc are consistent with scavengers, and I'll add probably very inconsistent with foul play in her case. You ask why the WS got so many obvious things wrong or covered up like the 2100 actual feet as opposed to the 3100 or 3300 feet (not yards) they said. The answers are they clearly do a lot of guess work, tell the media/public the most basic and often wrong information, and will not share anymore information than they have to about sensitive cases like this at all. You can ask anyone that has been directly involved in this and communication with the WS and they will tell you the same thing. Others who haven't will probably disagree and thats totally fine. BTW Buzz is right and a lot of your questions have been answered here and we've covered the SERE 'thing.' Good luck getting the NCIS to disclose to you how their internal investigation went The SEREs did help and there is no evidence whatsoever that Inchworm met with foul play of any kind. When you consider the campsite, ME report, and journal it seems even more of a stretch.

    Speaking of journal Alligator, we can be certain the family has all the information about Gerry's last days that they need. I hope that it gave them some peace and closure.

  18. #2298

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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Driven View Post
    I did read the ME report, and I find it to be the most honest and objective document. Where do you think I picked up on the information of missing arms and hands? The ME findings simply state the condition of the remains are consistent with ones from who have perished in the woods and discovered two years later. No real cause of death was determined. I have yet to find anything about NCIS being involved prior to the body discovery. No record of SERE personal being interviewed. Please point me to the documents that suggest these things were done.
    Just google the name, there will be several pages of links to various articles in credible newspapers and MSW information that will provide factual information. No need to look at the Bollard though unless unsubstantiated conspiracy innuendo is your interest.

  19. #2299
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    The conclusive behaivour of the media in it's reporting is far from credible. Headlines that Inchworm died from exposure, and now starvation. We do not know how she died, we simply do not know.
    03/07/13 - 10/07/13 Flip flop AT thru hike "It is well with my soul"

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    In my opinion you can count on _all_ media to portray events as if it was a comic book. Lots of "BLAM" & "POW" interspersed with guesses and innuendo. Not much facts. Why? Well at least partially because "facts" breed lawsuits. That being said we don't have to swallow or pass on garbage as true just because some bozo posted it on the Internet.

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