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  1. #2321
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Depends on wind, not so much distance. On a mountainside, expect air to rise in daytime as it warms up, and sink in evening as it cools off. Cadaver dogs can find bodies locations underwater. They can id gravesites up to 1000 yrs old as well.
    Also depends on humidity, rain and other weather factors.
    Then there's the level of training and the capability of each dog and the handler. Some dogs alert in very subtile ways that are easy for the handler to miss, especially at the end of a long hard day.

    I've helped out with our local K9 Rescue group, I have a friend that owns a Black Lab that is Live Scent certified in PA and MD. The dog is currently working on Cadaver certification. During a training the dog located a small cemetery that they knew was in the area with the latest grave from 1721.

    The Rescue group has a human foot they keep in an ammo box that they use for training. It is kept refrigerated except during training. I have seen their Cadaver dog follow that scent over a half of mile through the woods, into building, into the bathroom of that building then into a bathroom stall to local the remains behind a toilet. It is truly amazing to watch these dogs work.
    "Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011

  2. #2322

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    As good as a dog is, just imagine what a trained cadaver bear could do.....or a live scent bear.

    Has no one thought of this?

    Just as all dogs are bred from the wolf, we could breed friendly lovable domesticated funny looking bears to be used for SAR.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 02-18-2016 at 22:07.

  3. #2323
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    Please close this thread. Even after it is closed, the ghouls, conspiracy theorists, and now, jokers can still read all the entries to get their dark kicks but not contribute to this string of sadness.
    Everyone has a photographic memory. Not everyone has film.

  4. #2324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hillwalker View Post
    Please close this thread. Even after it is closed, the ghouls, conspiracy theorists, and now, jokers can still read all the entries to get their dark kicks but not contribute to this string of sadness.
    Agreed.

    However, if a new thread was started about how to be found, that would be good.


    Bruce Traillium

  5. #2325
    Registered User ChuckT's Avatar
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    I have to vote no?
    Yes some of the posting are un-informed, even naive, but there is still some worth to what we _are_ discussing here - how this came to occur.

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  6. #2326
    Registered User Majortrauma's Avatar
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    I know with absolute certainly that SERE school personnel volunteered to do so and actively participated in the search for Geraldine over several days.

    and act
    Quote Originally Posted by Son Driven View Post
    She was either dead, captured, or not cognitive during the search. No way does she not get found if she has the cognitive ability to make herself known to SAR. Seriously she had a whistle, SAR members had whistles that must of been in ear range. 2,100' from the AT. Probably much closer as members of SAR had to of searches off trail at least a few hundred feet on both sides of the AT. Additionally she would of made a fire, and hung her red coat where it would be seen. On top of all this there were personal using the SERE training facility at the time. Does anyone know if the Navy participated in any SAR work? Perhaps some of these guys were trained in rescuing air crews. You would think they would of helped if they were notified.

  7. #2327

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hillwalker View Post
    Please close this thread. Even after it is closed, the ghouls, conspiracy theorists, and now, jokers can still read all the entries to get their dark kicks but not contribute to this string of sadness.
    Please just stop reading if you are not interested.

    How incredibly egotistical and immature to propose closing a thread because you are tired of it.

  8. #2328

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottishLass View Post
    Please just stop reading if you are not interested.

    How incredibly egotistical and immature to propose closing a thread because you are tired of it.
    Well put, thanks.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  9. #2329

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottishLass View Post
    Please just stop reading if you are not interested.

    How incredibly egotistical and immature to propose closing a thread because you are tired of it.
    How incredibly egotistical to think your opinion is more important than theirs.

  10. #2330
    Registered User buckeye49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    How incredibly egotistical to think your opinion is more important than theirs.
    Old hill was not stating an opinion, he self-appointed himself to dictate what others are allowed to discuss. Lass is correct to call him on it.

  11. #2331

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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye49 View Post
    Old hill was not stating an opinion, he self-appointed himself to dictate what others are allowed to discuss. Lass is correct to call him on it.
    He is in no position to dictate anything, therefore he is only in a position to offer his opinion.

  12. #2332

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottishLass View Post
    Please just stop reading if you are not interested.

    How incredibly egotistical and immature to propose closing a thread because you are tired of it.
    My words were unnecessarily harsh, and for that I apologize.

    I don't understand why someone would propose closing a thread when others are still interested. Why not just ignore it?

  13. #2333

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    If people asked to close threads because they disagree, that would be half the threads here. Thats not how it works..........thankfully.
    But it is at discretion of a moderator to do so when they feel a thread is pushing boundaries, or has run it course.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 02-21-2016 at 22:32.

  14. #2334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don H View Post
    So go downhill, follow water downstream.

    Geez, I thought it would have been a little more in depth, maybe something like this:
    http://hikesafe.com/index.php?page=what-to-do-if-lost

    Most organizations teach STOP.
    Ya Don I agree the STOP is most often adopted. It would be an interesting discussion here and maybe something we could learn to know more about the W. Doyle seminars and what he actually teaches. I haven't been to one, and I'm not even necessarily endorsing all of his advice on self rescue. There are obviously many factors and each situation is specific, but what I paraphrased about his seminar apparently is excellent advice specifically for AT travelers. PCT and anywhere else it likely doesn't apply. Anyone know more about that?

    Muddy- #4 No you cannot drive anything to the tote road location. Only up the RR road. And yes, T-mans description is very very accurate about distance and terrain. The tote road itself is likely overgrown with the usual shrubbery and by now is difficult to traverse. The surrounding forest isn't.

    T-bob - Thanks for those post and the research. We've extensively covered the K9 stuff here. Don H. is seems to have the most direct experience with it. Unfortunately, for every successful K9 search you can find one where a team was very near human decomposition and simply missed it. I'll do a quick google search and post some examples, a few right here in Maine. As many have mentioned, the variables are almost endless and K9s teams have their limitations. And to answer your question about 'range' its usually a 1/4 mile or less (variables variables variables)

  15. #2335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerslair View Post
    We know that there was information on Gerry's phone showing she had crossed Orbeton Stream in late morning & continued on up the AT before getting lost. Knowing this, I believe there may be more information on her phone (or a possible journal). All of this would be known to the authorities, which would explain how they arrived at a cause of death so quickly after her remains were discovered. It seems likely that something happened after she became lost (injury) so that she was unable to follow Warren Doyle's self-rescue strategy. Her family may choose to always keep this information private and I can understand that. We may never know more than we do now. My heart breaks for her loved ones.
    Very well said Tiger. From our point of view there are this is all confusing and hard to make sense of. There is almost certainly personal information available to the investigators, that we don't have and may never, that would answer 100% of all the questions we may have. A lot of the investigators 'assumptions' are based on facts we don't have. Someone is working on this and we may get more clarity in time that could help a future situation like this, but I don't know if/when we'll ever see it.

  16. #2336

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    [QUOTE=Majortrauma;2043755]I know with absolute certainly that SERE school personnel volunteered to do so and actively participated in the search for Geraldine over several days.

    There needs to be some clarification here regarding SERE school personnel, MASAR, and DBAP. SERE is part of our United States Military. MASAR is an all volunteer group of civilians that takes direction in cases like this from the Maine Warden Service. DBAP, which is on the MASAR web site listed along with the other local and volunteer organizations, is different. DBAP is made up entirely of enlisted or formerly enlisted 'volunteers.' In other words, if you are not part of the military you can't join DBAP even though DBAP is under the umbrella of MASAR, which takes orders from the MWS.

    There are folks in DBAP who are also instructors for SERE. In other words, the Navy can say they contributed to the search and say it was 'SERE school personnel' when in fact it was DBAP. Gerry was found right on the border of the AT corridor and the Navy property. No man's land, as it were. The question is does DBAP take their marching orders on where to search from the MWS, the Navy, or do they decide for themselves where to search? This break in the chain of command could lead to a break in communication: who is searching where, and when? Look at this map-- they were all over the area, but just missed. That makes no sense.

    http://www.star977.com/wp-content/up...OGS_MAP_MWS_01

    I've heard from several MASAR volunteers who participated in the search who told me they were frustrated with the MWS: their lack of organization, the logic behind their decision making, and the MWS claim of the 'rugged' terrain and the lack of 'physically fit' volunteers.
    This thread should stay up until we are told why the MWS made the decisions it did. The MWS owe it to all the MASAR volunteers-- who risk injury and incur all their own expenses: TIME, food, gas, lodging, equipment, etc-- and the taxpaying public to come clean with the reasons the largest and most expensive missing persons search in Maine failed.

  17. #2337

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    [QUOTE=timeless_man;2044446]
    Quote Originally Posted by Majortrauma View Post
    Your link leads to a page that is blank. Can you fix it?
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  18. #2338

  19. #2339

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    SAR_TRACKLOGS_MAP_MWS_01.jpgHere you go Texas Bob-- I'm not sure when this was released but I know it was after or during the press conference in October.

  20. #2340
    Registered User ChuckT's Avatar
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    Thank you timeless_man for posting that map.
    Going further - I think it might be wise to consider that if this map is a record of GPS tracks it is only as accurate as the receivers could manage.

    I'm going to _guestimate_ that for this map the GPS tracks could be off as much as 100'. So while it appears, on this map, that searcher came within 200' feet of her location it may have been as much as 300' to 400' from their actual passage to her tent.

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