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  1. #2301

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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Driven View Post
    The conclusive behaivour of the media in it's reporting is far from credible. Headlines that Inchworm died from exposure, and now starvation. We do not know how she died, we simply do not know.
    Well, not sure how to address this. You are certainly free to believe what ever you speculate or want to believe. However the ME didn't say starvation or exposure, the diagnosis was inanition. Inanition is a combination of exposure, lack of food, lack of water, typically compounded by stress, expenditure of energy, age, and any underlying medical conditions. I understand it may be confusing, but when you look at it in context to this type of event, it make sense.

    To the opinion that no media reporting is credible, I would like to see any articles you have that have deliberately misstated facts as internet website stuff will. I would like to see anything from the Bangor, Portland, Berlin, Boston, or New York papers that did that. Reporting facts known at the time a story was written is credible, facts can change in long processes like these even when accurately reported at the time.

  2. #2302
    Registered User ChuckT's Avatar
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    Fact known ... facts can change. Ahuh.

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  3. #2303

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    We know that there was information on Gerry's phone showing she had crossed Orbeton Stream in late morning & continued on up the AT before getting lost. Knowing this, I believe there may be more information on her phone (or a possible journal). All of this would be known to the authorities, which would explain how they arrived at a cause of death so quickly after her remains were discovered. It seems likely that something happened after she became lost (injury) so that she was unable to follow Warren Doyle's self-rescue strategy. Her family may choose to always keep this information private and I can understand that. We may never know more than we do now. My heart breaks for her loved ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    . However the ME didn't say starvation or exposure, the diagnosis was inanition. Inanition is a combination of exposure, lack of food, lack of water, typically compounded by stress, expenditure of energy, age, and any underlying medical conditions. I understand it may be confusing, but when you look at it in context to this type of event, it make sense.
    Yes, it makes sense.
    But I hope we dont pay medical examiners to guess at things that make sense.
    I hope, they report facts and opinion based on physical evidence.
    If doing so in an official report, facts would be cited.
    If they arent, there are none to cite.

    I suspect due to high profile of this, they succumbed to political pressure to have answers, even if they had to stretch professional boundaries to state them.

    Or family may need an official cause of death to receive insurance payout.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 02-14-2016 at 19:00.

  5. #2305

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerslair View Post
    We know that there was information on Gerry's phone showing she had crossed Orbeton Stream in late morning & continued on up the AT before getting lost. Knowing this, I believe there may be more information on her phone (or a possible journal). All of this would be known to the authorities, which would explain how they arrived at a cause of death so quickly after her remains were discovered. It seems likely that something happened after she became lost (injury) so that she was unable to follow Warren Doyle's self-rescue strategy. Her family may choose to always keep this information private and I can understand that. We may never know more than we do now. My heart breaks for her loved ones.
    I think you have summed up the situation pretty well.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  6. #2306

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Yes, it makes sense.
    But I hope we dont pay medical examiners to guess at things that make sense.
    I hope, they report facts and opinion based on physical evidence.
    If doing so in an official report, facts would be cited.
    If they arent, there are none to cite.

    I suspect due to high profile of this, they succumbed to political pressure to have answers, even if they had to stretch professional boundaries to state them.

    Or family may need an official cause of death to receive insurance payout.
    Not sure why the speculation that medical examiners stretched their professional boundaries to meet a political circumstance, inanition is not an uncommon conclusion in these instances. If there is evidence of that, however, it should be shared.

    Frankly, I think we are nearing the end of the possible speculations that can be engaged before it goes over the edge into Bigfoot or space alien antics.

  7. #2307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerslair View Post
    It seems likely that something happened after she became lost (injury) so that she was unable to follow Warren Doyle's self-rescue strategy.
    What exactly is Warren Doyle's self rescue strategy?

    Knowing Gerry attended Warren's hiking school I'd like to know what he teaches his student about what to do if they get lost. Anyone know?
    "Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011

  8. #2308

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    Don H--See post #2274, paragraph 3 for an explanation of Warren Doyle's self-rescue strategy.

  9. #2309
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    So go downhill, follow water downstream.

    Geez, I thought it would have been a little more in depth, maybe something like this:
    http://hikesafe.com/index.php?page=what-to-do-if-lost

    Most organizations teach STOP.
    "Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011

  10. #2310

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    Fair warning—I apologize for the length of this—
    On the surface, Gerry gets up Monday morning, happy and healthy. She hikes about 3 miles, makes a mistake by turning off AT onto tote road, but she doesn’t back track. Maine Warden Service, and reports from those who have been there, seem to jibe—the tote road is in the area MWS says she went off trail. This is late morning of the day she goes missing. It is sunny and warm. About ten minutes up the tote road she stops to make camp, (would be around noon) and takes the time to make a raised earth platform for her tent. There she parks herself till she dies—some time that summer, while an extensive search by air and ground takes place.
    I do not lean in any direction as to what actually happened to Gerry, and I fully respect those involved in searching for her. But I can’t make sense of this for many reasons. Theories for each set of information seem to contradict other known facts.
    #1 Cadaver dogs didn’t find her because, according to ME report, the tent and sleeping bag limited the transmission of scent. That doesn’t work for me. You are not sealed air tight into a sleeping bag and any summer tents I know of are built to allow air flow. “Canid” (here in Maine that would be coydog, coyote or fox) found her, but not the cadaver dogs. And “canids” found her fairly early on, since not only was there stain within the tent, but on the ground under the sleeping bag (not on the bottom of, but under). Bag was 19-20 feet away from tent. Things were still fresh when scavengers ripped the tent and did their thing, or there would not have been fluid stain. I lost a family member about ½ year after Gerry went missing. He had passed away several weeks before we found him. We had to hire a remediation team for clean up. Even after that, and after several months, we ended up having the small building demolished due to scent. It lasts, and it carries, even out of a closed up building, to say nothing of a summer tent.
    #2 Examination of remains showed arthritis and L4 unilateral collapse, consistent with her known history, not a new issue. I don’t believe that stopped her from traveling. I am about her age and have more extensive spinal degeneration, both bone and disc. I hiked the 48 over 4000 with that condition. She hiked about 1,000 miles with her condition. So I don’t believe it is truly relevant to her death.
    #3 But if her back did lay her up, I don’t believe she would be going to the work of making that raised platform. The platform itself is interesting. It implies intent of longish term use. She went missing in 2013 and it is still in good condition after all this time. So it was well constructed and packed. Warden Service pics show the site as being basically level, so it wasn’t needed to level out ground. I have lived in Maine all my life, and backpacked, and never went to so much effort for short term. Pics made me wonder if this “campsite” was actually constructed some time previously by someone hunting, etc. It sounds like that kind of place – off tote road, slightly open canopy, open ground, water near by, not far from the road coming in from the south.
    #4 Timeless_man says it’s an easy 10 minute stroll from the AT to the campsite via the tote road, yet the representative of the Medical Examiners office didn’t go to the site due to “safety concerns with the terrain.” Warden’s Service has stated the terrain is difficult, but the pictures, both Wardens, and the camp site photos, seem to match Timeless_man. Question, could an ATV travel from where you can park at the staging area on the RR, south of the AT, up the RR, and then up the tote road, close to where the tent was?
    #5 We assume she was lost, yet she never tried to make her presence know, it seems. She had, by report, 2 lighters, matches, and esbit. She had military training, and took Doyle’s classes, but never made a fire or apparently anything else to draw attention to herself.
    #6 She was very close to the AT, not way off in the woods. In the White Mts. we are told to go 200 feet off trail to camp. She was only 10.5 times that distance from the trail. Not unusual to walk that far just for water.
    I don’t believe she made that platform the day she went missing because she wouldn’t be intending to stay. I don’t believe she wandered days and then made the platform while in weakened condition. I don’t believe she was passed away in the tent when the dogs searched, not far from her. If she took tote road by accident she had brains enough to back track to AT. It seems every answer we get produces more questions. Too many, “Yes, but”s in all of this.

  11. #2311
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    Quote Originally Posted by muddy boots View Post
    I don’t believe she made that platform the day she went missing because she wouldn’t be intending to stay. I don’t believe she wandered days and then made the platform while in weakened condition. I don’t believe she was passed away in the tent when the dogs searched, not far from her. If she took tote road by accident she had brains enough to back track to AT. It seems every answer we get produces more questions. Too many, “Yes, but”s in all of this.
    i dont believe she made the platform. if it is that well made of a thing and requires that much effort. it just doesnt fit at all (sounds like she wasnt even a camper in general). i also dont believe she arrived at that spot the afternoon she went missing and just sat there.

  12. #2312
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    Muddy Boots,
    So who made the raised tent platform? Do you think she wanders around lost until she found it?

    You said she didn't make fire. How do you know that? How do you know she didn't attempt other means of drawing attention?

    How do you know she only was lost for 10 minutes and then sat down, built a platform and died? How do you know she didn't wander for days and just happened to end up close tot he AT without knowing it? Yes she was very close to the AT but if she didn't know that it might as well have been miles away.

    Lots of assumptions on your part.
    "Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011

  13. #2313

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    Quote Originally Posted by muddy boots View Post
    #1 Cadaver dogs didn’t find her because, according to ME report, the tent and sleeping bag limited the transmission of scent..............................
    According to the Wardens Service the closest canine search was about 100 yards from Inchworm's final location. Many people have commented that they are surprised that the canines did not discover Inchworm. People seem to assume that if a canine searches an area the dog will have a very high probability of discovering remains. I would like to know how true that is. I wonder what the "effective range" is so to speak of a cadaver dog. In other words how close does the dog need to be to find remains (please no graphic discussions about her remains out of respect for Inchworm). I also wonder just how experienced or well trained these particular dogs and handlers were.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  14. #2314

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBob View Post
    I wonder what the "effective range" is so to speak of a cadaver dog. In other words how close does the dog need to be to find remains (please no graphic discussions about her remains out of respect for Inchworm). I also wonder just how experienced or well trained these particular dogs and handlers were.
    Depends on wind, not so much distance. On a mountainside, expect air to rise in daytime as it warms up, and sink in evening as it cools off. Cadaver dogs can find bodies locations underwater. They can id gravesites up to 1000 yrs old as well.

  15. #2315

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Depends on wind, not so much distance. On a mountainside, expect air to rise in daytime as it warms up, and sink in evening as it cools off. Cadaver dogs can find bodies locations underwater. They can id gravesites up to 1000 yrs old as well.
    Dogs have an amazing sense of smell no doubt about it. What I am wondering is what percentage of the time do they miss remains from a distance of 100 yards. In other words how often do they return a false negative result on a search. I have looked on the internet and found that this has been researched scientifically. It seems that dogs are successful anywhere from 15% of the time to 100% of the time depending on the degree of decomposition, skill of the handler as well as the skill of the dog. Here are some links.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10097372

    http://depts.ycp.edu/biothesis/2014S...y%20Hicks.pptx

    http://dialog.ua.edu/2001/09/profess...find-the-dead/
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  16. #2316
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBob View Post
    According to the Wardens Service the closest canine search was about 100 yards from Inchworm's final location. Many people have commented that they are surprised that the canines did not discover Inchworm. People seem to assume that if a canine searches an area the dog will have a very high probability of discovering remains. I would like to know how true that is. I wonder what the "effective range" is so to speak of a cadaver dog. In other words how close does the dog need to be to find remains (please no graphic discussions about her remains out of respect for Inchworm). I also wonder just how experienced or well trained these particular dogs and handlers were.
    If I recall the first K9 search that came close to the site was 18 days after Gerry went missing. With that in mind realize that K9s are trained as either Cadaver or Live Scent. In other words some find bodies, some find living missing people (few do both). My understanding is the first dog was a Cadaver dog. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.
    "Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011

  17. #2317

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    Son Driven, you really have no idea what SERE training is, no matter how much BS you've read or how many movies you've seen. You also know next to nothing about American Soldiers, Sailors, and Marines to say the outlandishly idiotic things you've said in your posts. I spent almost 33 straight years in uniform and fought in 2-1/2 wars, so I can say without any reservation whatsoever that the Navy SERE cadre and students would have risked their very lives to help a hiker in distress, no matter what. This event happened on the outer periphery of their training area, in an area that almost touched the AT.

    You really just need to stop talking, go back to your basement, and turn on "Ancient Aliens."

  18. #2318

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    Don H, you've right-that's just it-I don't assume, and I don't believe.

    TexaxBob, some interesting information in your links. Thanks for the research.

  19. #2319

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    Well, if you really want to get into the conspiracy nebula, how do we know it was Gerry that was found and she didn't scamper out of the woods to collect the insurance pay off.

    If we are going to speculate things, I would say money motive is strongest of any and it wouldn't be the first time people have killed a patsy to try and collect life insurance.

  20. #2320
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    Oh pleeze!

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