First-Time NOBO Hiker in Whites Seeks Campsites

[greenpete]

Hello fellow WhiteBlazers... I'm new to the site, and hiking in the White Mtns., and I can use some campsite advice. I'll be starting at Franconia Notch the Sunday before Memorial Day, and hiking to Gorham. I plan to average about 12 miles/day. I'm aware that camping above treeline is illegal and dangerous. But, unless weather's really bad, I usually avoid crowded shelters and huts and pitch my tent in a previously used campsite. Can anyone give me a list of primitive campsites between Franconia Notch and Gorham (even if I have to take a side trail a mile or so)? I have David Miller's maps, so I'll be referring to these during my hike. Thanks!!

[LIhikers]

I know it's too late for the original poster but when my wife and I hiked the Whites we talked to the cru in the huts. They were usually able to tell us about camping sites in the local areas.

[Slo-go'en]

There are none. That entire section is mostly above tree line or in forest protection zone. Camp only at designated sites or stay at the huts and pay the fees. There is no other option. You are not special nor entitled to disregard the camping regulations everyone else has to abide by. If you want to camp by yourself and avoid crowds, go somewhere else.

[rickb]

There are none. That entire section is mostly above tree line or in forest protection zone. Camp only at designated sites or stay at the huts and pay the fees. There is no other option. You are not special nor entitled to disregard the camping regulations everyone else has to abide by. If you want to camp by yourself and avoid crowds, go somewhere else.

I am not a big fan of absolute statements when they are simply not true.

That said, those who don't really have a good understanding for the area might find it easiest to stick with the designated sites-- huts are not needed.

[rafe]

I more or less agree with Slo. What isn't bare rock is mostly dense scrub, and/or too steep. Rarely enough space or flat ground for even the smallest tent, and the scrub won't support hammocks. Ridge runners are active and they know where to look.

There are a few official campsites scattered between the huts. Liberty Springs, Garfield, Guyot, Ethan Pond, the Perch come to mind.

[DLANOIE]

I stayed at the Perch when I went through there last. It was packed due to the weather, but legal. I agree with Slo 100%.

[rickb]

I stayed at the Perch when I went through there last. It was packed due to the weather, but legal. I agree with Slo 100%.

Suggesting one plan to stay at designated sites in that stretch may be sound advise, but stating that there are no legal (and viable) alternatives in that stretch is factually incorrect.

[rafe]

Suggesting one plan to stay at designated sites in that stretch may be sound advise, but stating that there are no legal (and viable) alternatives in that stretch is factually incorrect.

If you're willing to leave the AT and head down the mountain on a blue blaze, there are options -- but most of these involve a large descent.

I can say with near-certainty, there's nothing on the AT between Liberty Springs campsite and Lafayette summit, or between Lakes hut and Madison summit (except the Perch.)

You could probably find something in the last few miles between Madison and Pinkham, down in the hardwoods, but if you've gone that far you might as well continue to Pinkham.

You might find something down low in the hardwoods between Lafayette and Garfield summits. I have no memory of that stretch.

Ditto near Ethan Pond shelter, "northbound" a couple miles from Zealand hut, on the Wilderness Trail. But again, once you're there, you might as well stay at Ethan Pond shelter.

Once you're north of North Carter, things ease up -- but then again, you're past the AMC huts at that point. Imp shelter is quite nice, and Rattle River shelter is just another few miles north of that.

[swisscross]

Is it illegal to sleep ON the trial?

[rickb]

Since you mentioned Ethan Pond Shelter, I will pick up on that.

Its a great place-- met my Wife there, in fact -- but it has something like 4 tent platforms. What do you think the chances of getting one might be on a holiday weekend after a full day a hiking?

What to do?

Are you familiar with Shoal Pond? Recall that the OP said he was willing to walk a mile off the AT down a side trail. Shoal pond in not far off the AT on a perfectly flat side trail into the Pemi Wilderness Area. There are some amazing legal places to camp there (so good I hate to mention them in a public forum) which are the required 200 feet away from the Trail and pond. No one goes there.

What happens if you reach Nauman Tent Site and it is full? Not sure if everyone would be good with cameling up with water and finding an acceptable and legal site 1/4 mile away, but I'll bet you could.

How about if you have been stressing about the lack of legal camping in Pinkham Notch and come across a hiker who has thrown down off the Trail West side of the Old Jackson Road section of the AT. Do you harrumph to yourself because the hiker is camping illegally? Or do you recognize that he might actually know a bit more about the camping restrictions than the average hiker who is give short-hand versions of the regs.

I could go on...

Telling someone that camping away from designated sites between Franconia Notch and Gorham is difficult and not worth the trouble one's first time through may be very sound advise, however.

[rafe]

Shoal Pond Trail and Thoreau Falls Trail are the two I was thinking of near Ethan Pond shelter. The junctions to these two are well off the ridge, and well into the hardwoods. Both are within an easy 45 minute walk from the shelter.

I'll amend my previous post with this: there are probably some stealth opportunities downhill from Lonesome Lake, on Kinsman, or on the other side of 93, on the way up toward Liberty Springs campsite. Down low, in the hardwoods. Aside from that, I'll stick with what I wrote in Msg. #8.

No, I'll not fault a hiker for stealthing near a shelter or campsite in the White Mountains. It's their business if they want to risk it. But for myself -- if I'm wanting to camp, I generally avoid the AT in that neighborhood. Many years ago my GF and I were found by a ranger at a stealth site in the scrub near Madison hut. They knew where to look.

[rickb]

Is it illegal to sleep ON the trial?

I do not believe there is a Supervisor's Order to that effect in the Whites.

There are most certainly sections of the Trail in the Whites whre you are required to walk 200' into the woods on one side of the Trail to camp, but have no obligation to walk any specific distance into the woods on the other side to camp.

[Slo-go'en]

Is it illegal to sleep ON the trial?

Yes, since your required to camp 200 feet away from the trail in most areas. Then there is the practical matter that many animals use the AT as a connecting corridor. What are you going to do when a moose or a bear or a fisher cat comes walking up the trail and your laying in the middle of it? Ask them politely to go around?

The bottom line is that the AT in NH is either going steeply up or down hill, crossing a muddy bog, or is above tree line. Add in the dense forest and under growth mixed with boulders, downed trees and limbs, there just aren't many places you can even think about finding a suitable campsite. You sure can't count on finding one for planning. Just as practical matter, you have to plan on staying at designated sites or huts.

Going hut to hut might be somewhat expensive, but it sure makes the trip a lot easier, both logistically and physically. It's a vacation right? And still a whole lot less expensive then most other common vacation options.

[BonBon]

There are quite a few stealth sites in the whites and I used a few when I hiked, thanks to a list of them that was circulated when I hiked last year - but I can't find it now. Its out there though. Keep looking. If I find it I'll message you.

[colorado_rob]

There are quite a few stealth sites in the whites and I used a few when I hiked, thanks to a list of them that was circulated when I hiked last year - but I can't find it now. Its out there though. Keep looking. If I find it I'll message you.

I've got the list, holler OP and I can send it to you. We needed to use only one site on the list, the one across the road (US2) from Joe Dodge Lodge. We got through the white nicely using 3 huts, 1 shelter and three campsites. Made a nice mix.

[rickb]

The blanket requirement that one camp 200' feet away from a trail in the Whites applies in Wilderness areas only.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_...rdb5276599.pdf

For the most part, the AT does not pass through Wilderness Areas in the Whites, but rather skirts thier edges.

LNT practices suggest that the 200' standard should be used elsewhere in the Whites, but it is not a requirement. There are also site specific restriction that one must follow (like no camping within 1/4 mile of all huts and many named roads) as welll as those pertaining to camping above treelike and certain scenic areas.

As others have pointed out, you have practical challenges as well.

Interestingly, there are no blanket restrictions about building fires in most of the White Mountain Wilderness areas, and there are also no blanket restrictions requiring that you must camp 200' away from all bodies of water-- even within the Wilderness areas. The few bodies of water where the 200' rule applies are listed by name in a supervisors order.

The supervisors orders are summarized -- together with the LNT recommendations -- in a pamphlet available online.

[rafe]

I've got the list, holler OP and I can send it to you. We needed to use only one site on the list, the one across the road (US2) from Joe Dodge Lodge. We got through the white nicely using 3 huts, 1 shelter and three campsites. Made a nice mix.

Joe Dodge, aka Pinkham, is on Rte. 16. Just sayin'.

[rickb]

Joe Dodge, aka Pinkham, is on Rte. 16. Just sayin'.

If that is the hikers choice, great. There are legal areas in the vicinity as well, which lay outside of the Cutler River FPA, and are the requisite 1/4 mile from the AMC Facility and Auto Road.

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[rafe]

If that is the hikers choice, great. There are legal areas in the vicinity as well, which lay outside of the Cutler River FPA, and are the requisite 1/4 mile from the AMC Facility and Auto Road.

I was correcting C_R with regard to the location of Joe Dodge Lodge. It's on Rte. 16, not Rte. 2.

In an earlier post you asked what Ethan Pond shelter might be like on a holiday weekend. Now try to imagine Pinkham (or AMC Highland Center) on that same weekend.

As a general principle I don't like camping near roads.

On Rte. 16, one option is to walk or hitch a mile or so north to the Wildcat ski area or to the trailhead of 19 Mile Brook Trail. But I can tell you even there, I've been accosted by local law enforcement during a late night arrival. (I was advised to camp on Dolly Copp Rd.)

For non-purists, 19 Mile Brook trail rejoins the AT, and avoids the climb of Wildcat.

[illabelle]

Going hut to hut might be somewhat expensive, but it sure makes the trip a lot easier, both logistically and physically. It's a vacation right? And still a whole lot less expensive then most other common vacation options.

So true. We're doing exactly that in early July. With plane fare added in, this will surely be our most expensive section. But if we're lucky enough to escape any dramatic weather, then the hut-to-hut arrangement gets it done with minimal hassle. We plan to take our time and enjoy the trip.