Sent Money for Item but no response from seller

[ogtheking]

There's 2 methods of payment with PayPal. Goods/services or friends/family/gift. The cost is for making a transaction, someone has to pay it.
With goods:services it's the seller, with friends/family/gift it's the sender.
Bottom line is PayPal wants to get paid for handling the $.
Some sellers will ask for the buyer to send as friends/family/gift to keep from paying the transaction fee.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TNhiker]

Both of these people cheated PayPal, and I an NO fan of PayPal. I'm not even sure if this thread complies with the WB User Agreement as it's a discussion of how to do something illegal.

has is using Paypal illegal?

[TNhiker]

Unethical seller AND unethical buyer.

only one of these is correct...........

and its not the buyer.........


(fwiw, i use paypal all the time..............maybe 3 or 4 times a week depending............i have no problems with it unless a seller doesnt fulfill their end............it they dont, i file a claim............its basically the equivalent of using a credit card)

[TNhiker]

has is using Paypal illegal?

should say how........not has......

[Namtrag]

only one of these is correct...........

and its not the buyer.........


(fwiw, i use paypal all the time..............maybe 3 or 4 times a week depending............i have no problems with it unless a seller doesnt fulfill their end............it they dont, i file a claim............its basically the equivalent of using a credit card)

Exactly true on that. I would do the same thing if I were a buyer because I am a nice guy trying to help a brother out, not because I am unethical. Or let me rephrase that, I would formerly have done it. Now that I have seen what can happen, I wouldn't do it now!

[Alligator]

If it is the seller I am guessing, said seller has sold multiple items here in the past and I personally have not received any reports for this seller. 5/1 was Sunday, it could have been sent on 5/2 so it's probably early to be expecting it? This isn't ebay. He might be out of town or otherwise unavailable for a few days.

[Wrangler88]

I've sold and bought a ton of stuff on here, Hammock Forums, BPL, etc. Always used paypal. Most times I've used paying for goods method. Other times done friends and family. Luckily for me, everything has always worked out. I don't think just because someone uses friends and family that automatically makes them unethical. They're trying to save a few bucks. A few bucks on one transaction is nothing. A few bucks on 20 transactions, equals up to new piece of gear. I'm not saying people should use friends and family. Because its smarter not to. But just because someone requests that, doesn't mean they're trying to screw you. If you don't want to do friends and family, you could always add a few bucks to pay the fees. Its only a few bucks right?

[Miel]

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/p...y-and-security

Paypal buyer protection policies ^^

[surfnturk]

Which is why I wouldn't post his name/handle. He needs to remain anonymous unless I never receive the item.

If it is the seller I am guessing, said seller has sold multiple items here in the past and I personally have not received any reports for this seller. 5/1 was Sunday, it could have been sent on 5/2 so it's probably early to be expecting it? This isn't ebay. He might be out of town or otherwise unavailable for a few days.

[HooKooDooKu]

Unethical seller AND unethical buyer.

only one of these is correct...

You don't know me and you insinuate I would cheat someone?

PayPal User Agreement section 4.1 states:

If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase.

("Personal Payment" is PayPal legal speak for "gift" or "friends and family").

The seller asking the buyer to send money as a gift has violated the PayPal User Agreement. Sounds "unethical" to me.
The buyer was complicit in violating the PayPal User Agreement. That also sounds "unethical" to me.

Because the transaction was completed without following the User Agreement, PayPal was "cheated" of its rightful fee.

So what am I missing?

[ogtheking]

So what am I missing?[/QUOTE]

Well, what you are missing is that PayPal DID get payed their fee. It was by the buyer, not the seller.

[surfnturk]

PayPal User Agreement section 4.1 states:

("Personal Payment" is PayPal legal speak for "gift" or "friends and family").

The seller asking the buyer to send money as a gift has violated the PayPal User Agreement. Sounds "unethical" to me.
The buyer was complicit in violating the PayPal User Agreement. That also sounds "unethical" to me.

Because the transaction was completed without following the User Agreement, PayPal was "cheated" of its rightful fee.

So what am I missing?

So, because the guy said he's losing money and would have to pay about $16 for shipping and asked me to call it a gift to help him out, I'm unethical?

I love these guys who just have to insert their personal just to show how high and mighty they are. I'm very impressed.

[lonehiker]

This won't apply to the cyber hikers on here, but, those of us that have paid cash for a motel/hostel very well may have been involved in an illegal activity... Just food for thought...

[TNhiker]

those of us that have paid cash for a motel/hostel very well may have been involved in an illegal activity...

welllllllllllllllll.................along with that----if you really wanna get down to brass tacks------one could say that a vast majority of us are involved in an illegal activity every day.....

after all, in theory---speeding is illegal...........

[Burro]

I've bought a number of items both here on WB and on BPL. Every time it was from some one I did not know so I usually have asked the buyer to add PP fees to the transaction cost if they had specified F&F. They may be the greatest people in the world, but I have no way of knowing that. My experience has been that the people selling here have been honest and forthright. But, I have some level of protection with PP if the deal does go south when I use the goods and services option. As some one stated earlier, the fees are paid one way or the other. Either you pay as the person sending money on F&F or you pay (if you choose too) extra to the seller to cover the fees the seller would otherwise have to absorb. Then you have the piece of mind that you will get what you paid for or get your money back if it is never received.

Kudos for not dragging the sellers name in the mud. As others have pointed out there may be a number of circumstances that have prevented the seller from responding.

[Secondmouse]

Exactly true on that. I would do the same thing if I were a buyer because I am a nice guy trying to help a brother out, not because I am unethical. Or let me rephrase that, I would formerly have done it. Now that I have seen what can happen, I wouldn't do it now!

yeah but what the buyer doesn't seem to understand, is using "gift/ friends and family" mode, he is paying the charge to process the transaction. paypal doesn't do this for free...

so, if in the negotiation with the seller I agree to pay the fee, I would prefer to simply add 3% to cover the fee and classify the transaction as "paying for goods or services". that way I don't lose your buyer's protection...

[HooKooDooKu]

So, because the guy said he's losing money and would have to pay about $16 for shipping and asked me to call it a gift to help him out, I'm unethical?

From a technical stand point... yes. You willingly took part in an action that was a violation of the PayPal user agreement.

But as TNHiker points out, were all guilty. In the grand scheme of things, I think this is on par with telling a "white lie" and not a big deal. As such, I think you can argue that Rain Man's comments might be a bit harsh for the situation.

I understand that you simply see yourself as playing the "nice guy"... you simply wanted to help the seller out.

But perhaps what Rain Man may have been trying to point out is that this situation is a perfect example of the phrase "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". If you check out the Wikipedia article on the phrase, you will see it has two meanings. The first relates to someone is "intended" to do something but never did. But the second relates to someone who wants to do good, but is willing to break the rules in the process.

[Secondmouse]

This won't apply to the cyber hikers on here, but, those of us that have paid cash for a motel/hostel very well may have been involved in an illegal activity... Just food for thought...

say what?.. last I looked, cash was legal tender for all debts, public and private. if the person/company you give it to doesn't do the right thing with it, that doesn't make you culpable...

[HooKooDooKu]

I would prefer to simply add 3% to cover the fee and classify the transaction as "paying for goods or services". that way I don't lose your buyer's protection.

Excellent point!!!

When a credit card or debit card is used to finance a transaction, "gift" means the giver pays the fees and "purchase" means the seller pays the fees.
But because the buyer protection doesn't kick in unless you make a "purchase", that means it is foolish to buy something with a "gift" transaction.

In this case, the purchase price was $135. As a "gift", that means the buyer is giving the seller $135, PayPal $4.22, and gets he no buyer protection.
But if the buyer instead makes a "purchase" for $139.34, the seller still gets $135 and the buyer gets the buyer protection.
(The buyer protection costs an additional 12¢ because the fees are based on the $135 plus the fees you're providing to the seller).

But we haven't been told how this 'purchase' was financed. PayPal indicates that fees are waived if the transaction is a "gift" and the money comes from a bank account rather than a CC. I get a feeling that is how this transaction was financed. If so, then that's really what Rain Man's point was... all this trouble to avoid a $4 fee.

[Hoofit]

It's a good thing that the individual has a lot of posts. It's a sign that they are a contributing member of the forum.

Well, my guess, fwiw, is he will get back with you.
Hang loose, don't write him off yet.
Over 300 posts, I mean, surely!