Bunch of hiking physical training resources(Former Infantryman & PT) Q&A

[egilbe]

Hey, if you don't have muscular arms and shoulders, what are your legs gonna use for fuel during those days you are running a 2k to 3k calorie deficit? Gotta get that protein somewhere, right? I mean, you carried that muscle mass for a thousand miles, right?

[MuddyWaters]

AT training.


http://nighthikingtomars.blogspot.co...l#comment-form

[CamelMan]

Well, I'm also following an abbreviated 2-phase plan, but my "strength building" phase involves hiking with a progressively heavier pack over longer distances, with enough rest in between to build, and a high protein, high calorie-dense diet. My legs haven't looked this muscular in a long time, and I can hump 18 pounds for 16-20 miles, so I'm ready to declare success for Phase I. The next phase will drop some pack weight and distance at first, but add days per week, and revert back to a less calorie-dense diet to run a deficit to lose body weight and give my joints a break. (Also back to no salt because I don't need to carry 5 more pounds of nothing useful.) I gave up my upper body dumbbell routine long ago, because I'm interesting in losing absolute weight wherever I can and I'm tired enough as it is.

If I had to use a gym I would focus on treadmill and stair-climber. Crossfit is the "sport of fitness" but hiking requires fitness for sport, so I think it would make the most sense to train like a runner but with a pack, like most people said. One benefit of a gym, besides access to equipment, is not having to night hike. In MO you could maybe plan some nice weekends in the Ozarks.

[colorado_rob]

It would be nice to be able to hike all the time, but, I can only get in maybe one long hike per week. And some weeks not even one. Not everyone can get out and hike all the time - especially if you're living in a place where getting out to some good trails requires a long commute.

You have it good in CO. I'm jealous of all the trails and mountains you have. If I lived out there I'd probably spend a lot less time in the gym.

Training for hiking has little to do with where you live. It's much about lifestyle choices; like how much TV you watch and whether you are overall active or not. WALK! ALL THE TIME! It's what humans were designed for. Being upright, head-held-high bi-peds, we're walking machines, extremely efficient at it. If you walk a lot you'll be in great shape for hiking. Assuming you're not substantially overweight and in some kind of reasonable shape, get those feet and lower legs toughened up and you'll be ready for hiking long distances. If you are overweight and in lousy shape, going to a gym for weight training will maybe make those tats look more like they did 10 years ago when you got them, but won't do much at all for your hiking.

The only hiking benefit I see about going to gyms would be for some core exercises.

Running errands? WALK! going out to dinner and/or a movie somewhere within a few miles of home? WALK! Watching TV a lot, or even a little? STOP! get out and do stuff with your body. Every once in a while do a LONG WALK, 12-16 miles or so even around town.

I'm not knocking gyms, I go to one 3-4 times a week myself most of the year (though practically never in mid-summer to early fall), but for upper body toning (which hiking does nothing for) and some cross training (swimming, rowing).

[rafe]

My legs are in great shape. Torso and abs, ugh. But I don't enjoy doing sit ups and push ups. And I can't stand gyms for some reason.

[lonehiker]

It's all about the feet.

[firesign]

Sgt,

You stick with what you believe is right and if you succeed: Great! and if you fail, then Great also.

Best of luck.

[Uriah]

It's all about the feet.

Exactly! And nothing trains the feet for repeated long hikes like long hikes.

Feet always seem to be neglected when it comes to prep, and you rarely hear a gym rat mention them, at least up to the point when their hike begins. Of the 70-80% (+/-) who start the AT with the intent to complete it, and who end up "failing," most do so because of some sort of psychological strain (boredom, incorrect expectations, and so on). But of the physical ailments, feet are perhaps tops on the list of injuries, knocking many a hiker off his or her dream.

[Secondmouse]

...Mental toughness, mental flexibility, pacing, pack weight, hydration, fueling, recovery, temperature control, efficient camp setup and breakdown, blister prevention and control, chafing prevention and control, hiking technique etc. You could be a former Bad a$$ed Navy seal and not make it out of Georgia, I believe that happened a few years ago. So while strength training can be a part of an overall preparation, IMHO it is a much smaller part than any of the factors I listed above. Basically experience will trump strength any day of the week on the trail...

I don't know any "Bad a$$ed Navy seal" but I do know a couple of plain ol' SEALs and if what you describe above are your prime criteria for success on the trail, then they absolutely would make it out of GA.

carrying 60% of their body weight.

with no food, water, or shelter.

in the dark.

in the rain.

carrying one of their severed legs.

with a smile on their face...

[burger]

I find this thread really funny. The OP, despite never having done a thru hike (has he even done a multi-day hike before???) insists he has found the "optimal" way to train for a thru hike. A bunch of experienced hikers chime in and say, "eh, just do a lot of walking," and then the OP doubles down and insists he's right.

Like I said, this whole thread is terribly premature. Do your thru-hike, then report back after and tell us how your "training" went. An inexperienced hiker telling other people how to train for the AT is like me, who has never climbed anything, telling someone how to train for doing Everest.

[SGTJones]

I find this thread really funny. The OP, despite never having done a thru hike (has he even done a multi-day hike before???) insists he has found the "optimal" way to train for a thru hike. A bunch of experienced hikers chime in and say, "eh, just do a lot of walking," and then the OP doubles down and insists he's right.

Like I said, this whole thread is terribly premature. Do your thru-hike, then report back after and tell us how your "training" went. An inexperienced hiker telling other people how to train for the AT is like me, who has never climbed anything, telling someone how to train for doing Everest.

I've done six years in the Infantry. We regularly did multi-day and multi-week exercises in the field - carrying loads much heavier than I'll carry on the AT and averaged 10-15km/day.

Everything I wrote up is predicated on that experience.

Anyone whose been in the military will tell you - the little guys who are great runners get absolutely crushed by ruck marches. We were always having to cross-load gear from the small runner types.

I find it ironic that you will post uninformed assumptions about weight-lifting(when you clearly don't have good domain knowledge in that area) and then criticize me for not having domain knowledge in hiking.

[CarlZ993]

Couldn't look at your training regimen w/o giving my email address. So, I'm not sure what it is. Sounds intense. Sounds like it has a high potential for injury. Or maybe I'm just showing my age & my fear of getting injured prior to a long hike.

For my AT hike, I devised a simple plan. I've always had a pretty good fitness base to draw from: running 5 X week; lifting 2 X week. I do this pretty much year round, year after year. I also had the experience of many years of backpacking w/ multiple hikes in the 10 to 17 day range (up to 220M). When I geared up for the AT hike, I added some weekly and then twice-weekly hikes w/ a backpack (min of 8 miles on local trails). I added some short, training backpack trips (5 days max; Big Bend, TX State Parks, Grand Canyon, etc) prior to my long hike. I got back from my Grand Canyon trip just 3 days before I left for the AT. So, big climbs didn't psyche me out.

When I started my hike, I kept the mileage reasonable for the first three weeks (didn't hit 18 M or longer until day 19). I allowed my joints, tendons, and feet to get accustomed to the rigors of hiking day after day. By the time I neared Damascas, I felt like my trail legs were under me & I began to hike longer.

Keep your packweight light. Don't hammer the trail too hard at the start. And don't quit unless something ends up in a cast. Good luck on your hike!

[Malto]

I've done six years in the Infantry. We regularly did multi-day and multi-week exercises in the field - carrying loads much heavier than I'll carry on the AT and averaged 10-15km/day.

Everything I wrote up is predicated on that experience.

Anyone whose been in the military will tell you - the little guys who are great runners get absolutely crushed by ruck marches. We were always having to cross-load gear from the small runner types.

I find it ironic that you will post uninformed assumptions about weight-lifting(when you clearly don't have good domain knowledge in that area) and then criticize me for not having domain knowledge in hiking.

From one 11B many years ago to another...... You are putting too much faith in military experience and IMHO it will be to your detriment. many with military background seems to have a macho military mindset that glorifies pack weight. That is not a formula for success IMHO for a thru hike, let alone a fast thru hike. Challenge that assumption and I believe your training plan is much less important for a thru hike. In addition to being an 11B I also have done a very fast paced thru hike AND have done more than average amounts of strength training so I have no bias against your background or what you are trying to accomplish.

As Burger alluded to, it all just theory until you do it.

[egilbe]

From one 11B many years ago to another...... You are putting too much faith in military experience and IMHO it will be to your detriment. many with military background seems to have a macho military mindset that glorifies pack weight. That is not a formula for success IMHO for a thru hike, let alone a fast thru hike. Challenge that assumption and I believe your training plan is much less important for a thru hike. In addition to being an 11B I also have done a very fast paced thru hike AND have done more than average amounts of strength training so I have no bias against your background or what you are trying to accomplish.

As Burger alluded to, it all just theory until you do it.

If strength was required to do a thru-hike, little old ladies wouldn't be able to do it, yet Grandma Gatewood did it. Twice.

[SGTJones]

From one 11B many years ago to another...... You are putting too much faith in military experience and IMHO it will be to your detriment. many with military background seems to have a macho military mindset that glorifies pack weight. That is not a formula for success IMHO for a thru hike, let alone a fast thru hike. Challenge that assumption and I believe your training plan is much less important for a thru hike. In addition to being an 11B I also have done a very fast paced thru hike AND have done more than average amounts of strength training so I have no bias against your background or what you are trying to accomplish.

As Burger alluded to, it all just theory until you do it.

Hey Malto, thanks for your input. Definitely not going to carry a 45lb pack on the trail. Right now it's weighing in at 14.5lbs w/o food or water but I also am bringing some camera equipment so it'll be on the heavier end.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the biggest difference I can see between a long FTX and what we'll experience on the AT would be the mental aspect of spending 5-6 months out in the woods. Other then that you're hiking with a pack. On the AT the pack will be lighter so that aspect will be easier, and you'll be hiking on a marked trail as opposed to wading through undergrowth, swamps, and depressions.

I wrote this earlier but I feel like it's gotten lost in the thread, so I want to state it again to clear things up. The intent of the OP was not to say "this is the ONE way to train for the AT." The intent was to share a physical training plan I wrote up. But I don't know if it was the tone of my original post or the video or what, people seem to have misconstrued my post as saying that strength training is the only way to train for the AT.

I still do believe that strength training is very valuable to a hiker. Just as it is valuable to any athlete. This is coming from my background as a trainer.

The science is solid. Strength training improves athletic performance all around. Strength training decreases the risk of injury - by building stronger bones and connective tissues. Again - I'm not saying that strength training is the only factor in athletic performance - I'm saying that it improves athletic performance when paired with practicing the skills specific sport you're playing, and yes hiking is not a sport, but it still falls under the definition of "athletic performance."

Is strength training necessary for hike the AT? No. Is it helpful? Yes! That's the point I've been making that seems to be missed. it is not a zero-sum game! You can both strength train AND hike. Which my plan calls for doing both! I could understand the vehemence if the plan called for 10 hours in the gym in exclusion of hiking... but it doesn't. It only calls for two half hour sessions per week. One hour per week.

Maybe I'm not communicating well. So let me ask a question of the Whiteblaze forums: "Given the choice would you rather be stronger or weaker when you start your hike?"

Because that's really what the argument comes down to. Those people who are saying that strength training is useless for the AT are saying that they would rather start a hike being weaker.

Oh one final point... what do you guys think is happening when you're training for a hike by hiking with a pack? You're essentially doing lots of reps of weighted lunges with a limited range of motion. The same adaptations are being elicited by your training hikes as would be elicited by strength training - improved CNS efficiency, increased metabolic function, a strengthening of the bones, muscles, and connective tissues. The benefit of strength training is that it is designed to elicit those adaptations in a time-efficient manner. I could get the same net improvement with 15 minutes of weighted lunges or 2 hours of weighted hiking. Why does that make me wrong?

[SGTJones]

If strength was required to do a thru-hike, little old ladies wouldn't be able to do it, yet Grandma Gatewood did it. Twice.

Strength is required to do a thru-hike.

When I use the term strength I'm using the clinical definition. "The ability of a muscle or a person to produce or resist a physical force." I think maybe part of the misunderstandings here come from this, I'm not using strength in to mean that you have to deadlift 500lbs.

Walking requires strength. Getting out of bed requires strength. Standing up from the couch requires strength. You know there are people with perfectly functional limbs who can't do any of the above? Because they lack the strength - their muscles have either atrophied to the point that they lack the strength to stand up(this happens to many older individuals) or their body-mass has out-paced their skeletal muscle strength so they can't lift themselves up.

I bet those little old ladies who completed the hike have more absolute skeletal muscle strength than many middle-aged sedentary Americans. If strength weren't required then a 600lb obese person could complete the trail. But they can't, because they lack the requisite strength to move their body mass over the trails.

Having more strength means you can produce more force. Which means hiking faster and further. It means a person with more strength relative to another will experience less fatigue given the same weight and same distance.

It doesn't matter that I've never hiked the AT. The principles of biomechanics and athletic performance hold true. Strength improves performance and reduces injury for literally every sport that involves movement. Logic would dictate that this principle would then hold true for hiking. Again we're talking strength, the ability to produce force. We're not talking about putting on loads of muscles or anything else like that which some people in this thread have confused with strength training.

[Lone Wolf]

it's just walkin' not rocket science

[Malto]

Hey Malto, thanks for your input. Definitely not going to carry a 45lb pack on the trail. Right now it's weighing in at 14.5lbs w/o food or water but I also am bringing some camera equipment so it'll be on the heavier end.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the biggest difference I can see between a long FTX and what we'll experience on the AT would be the mental aspect of spending 5-6 months out in the woods. Other then that you're hiking with a pack. On the AT the pack will be lighter so that aspect will be easier, and you'll be hiking on a marked trail as opposed to wading through undergrowth, swamps, and depressions.

I wrote this earlier but I feel like it's gotten lost in the thread, so I want to state it again to clear things up. The intent of the OP was not to say "this is the ONE way to train for the AT." The intent was to share a physical training plan I wrote up. But I don't know if it was the tone of my original post or the video or what, people seem to have misconstrued my post as saying that strength training is the only way to train for the AT.

I still do believe that strength training is very valuable to a hiker. Just as it is valuable to any athlete. This is coming from my background as a trainer.

The science is solid. Strength training improves athletic performance all around. Strength training decreases the risk of injury - by building stronger bones and connective tissues. Again - I'm not saying that strength training is the only factor in athletic performance - I'm saying that it improves athletic performance when paired with practicing the skills specific sport you're playing, and yes hiking is not a sport, but it still falls under the definition of "athletic performance."

Is strength training necessary for hike the AT? No. Is it helpful? Yes! That's the point I've been making that seems to be missed. it is not a zero-sum game! You can both strength train AND hike. Which my plan calls for doing both! I could understand the vehemence if the plan called for 10 hours in the gym in exclusion of hiking... but it doesn't. It only calls for two half hour sessions per week. One hour per week.

Maybe I'm not communicating well. So let me ask a question of the Whiteblaze forums: "Given the choice would you rather be stronger or weaker when you start your hike?"

Because that's really what the argument comes down to. Those people who are saying that strength training is useless for the AT are saying that they would rather start a hike being weaker.

Oh one final point... what do you guys think is happening when you're training for a hike by hiking with a pack? You're essentially doing lots of reps of weighted lunges with a limited range of motion. The same adaptations are being elicited by your training hikes as would be elicited by strength training - improved CNS efficiency, increased metabolic function, a strengthening of the bones, muscles, and connective tissues. The benefit of strength training is that it is designed to elicit those adaptations in a time-efficient manner. I could get the same net improvement with 15 minutes of weighted lunges or 2 hours of weighted hiking. Why does that make me wrong?

No disagreement that weight training could be helpful to some degree. however, I believe beyond a certain point (not much) it is counterproductive. I know that I overdid strength training prior to my 2011 thruhike and my body just ate the muscle mass as I went north. In the end it didn't hurt me much since I did a boatload of very aggressive hikes which is exactly the training I would recommend for a thru hike preparation. It taught me what was required to maintain a fast pace for weeks and months at a time. If I were training again for a first thru I would have done more two or three day trips instead of the weight training. It would have been a much more efficient bang for the buck. Not against weight training, will be hitting the gym tomorrow.

[OCDave]

SGTJones,

You are apparently too young to have benefited from the training lessons we gained from Rocky v. Drago.

Strength is not equal to strength training

Good luck with your hike.

[OCDave]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9wAdu-PXJA