72 miles in 2 days - my attempt

[Stevep311]

Hello All,

I kinda got shunned in the general forum when I asked questions about this so I will bring my discussion here. I had a goal to do the Smokies in 2 days (roughly 72 miles). First day gaol was to make it from Fontana Hilton to Mt Collins Shelter & 2nd day from there to Davenport Gap. I did NOT make it. I did manage to hike 37.5 miles to Mt Collins Shelter but woke up the next morning with lots of pain in my knees and managed to get myself to Newfound Gap 4.2 miles further north (very slowly) so that I could get a shuttle ride back to my car.

I trained by doing 3 months worth of P90X, running 3-6 miles everyday for 3 months, and on the weekends I did a couple dozen hikes with my 2 year old strapped to my back--she and the pack are equivalent to 3x the weight of the total pack weight I used on my attempt.

My heart was in it, but again my knees just did not allow me to go the 2nd day. How could I have trained better for this?

[Malto]

Can you give a bit of background on how many high mile (30+) days that you done, how recent, how many back to back, typical elevation gain etc. one thing to consider is that you did by far the toughest day of the two. I did a 50 mile day, out and back south from Newfound Gap and it was one of the toughest days I have done. In your case the combo of the hike up out of Fontana combined with a very tough series of climbs south of Clingmans dome had a boatload of elevation gain.

[TNhiker]

In your case the combo of the hike up out of Fontana combined with a very tough series of climbs south of Clingmans dome had a boatload of elevation gain.

yeah.....thats a helluva climb......

the only thing i can think is maybe change the terrain that you trained on------im guessing whatever terrain you trained on, wasnt like the rocky, dirt, eroded etc etc etc path that the AT is through the Park....

but, to be honest----be proud of what you did do----thats a long distance with alot of elevation........

not the average hiker can pull something like that off.........

[Pedaling Fool]

Hello All,

I kinda got shunned in the general forum when I asked questions about this so I will bring my discussion here. I had a goal to do the Smokies in 2 days (roughly 72 miles). First day gaol was to make it from Fontana Hilton to Mt Collins Shelter & 2nd day from there to Davenport Gap. I did NOT make it. I did manage to hike 37.5 miles to Mt Collins Shelter but woke up the next morning with lots of pain in my knees and managed to get myself to Newfound Gap 4.2 miles further north (very slowly) so that I could get a shuttle ride back to my car.

I trained by doing 3 months worth of P90X, running 3-6 miles everyday for 3 months, and on the weekends I did a couple dozen hikes with my 2 year old strapped to my back--she and the pack are equivalent to 3x the weight of the total pack weight I used on my attempt.

My heart was in it, but again my knees just did not allow me to go the 2nd day. How could I have trained better for this?

I somewhat answered it in your other thread, copied below:

That's the thing about physical fitness, most people focus on conditioning the aerobic system, but actually the aerobic system is fairly easy to condition -- it's actually very easy; yet, we all seem to fixate on it by doing various aerobic activities. However, when we do real world things (after training) we find it's usually not the aerobic system that failed us, rather it's the musculoskeletal system, in your case it was your knees. However, there are tons of other things that it could have been, such as your back, hips, shins, feet...

Unfortunately, unlike the aerobic system, these things take time to build up. I've been running for years and I have the aerobic capacity to run all day, but I'd end up injuring something in my musculoskeletal system. The only thing you can do is do a little everyday and keep at it. Musculoskeletal conditioning is all about consistency.

It is the reason why I believe weightlifting is very important, including very heavy weights and just because one runs, or hikes, or bikes a lot is NOT a reason to skip doing lower body workouts with heavy weights.

P.S. Heavy weights are crucial, but one must ensure they first develop a very solid base with lighter weights before grunting with the heavy stuff.

However, to answer your more specific question: "How could I have trained better for this?"

One important thing needs to be known. How was your general fitness prior to your training for this endeavor?


The reason that is important is because the more active a lifestyle the better off you are; however, if you've lived a somewhat sedentary lifestyle than the preparations for completing this goal will take more time. It takes a lot of time and patience to build up a strong frame and if you try and hurry that process, especially at your age, you will eventually injure yourself.

Bottom line: Developing a strong frame (you already have the cardio conditioning to do it) takes time and patience. Furthermore, if you keep working yourself to injury, like you did on this last attempt the longer it may take you to get to that goal.


You're much better off doing consistently shorter hikes than these once-in-awhile record setting hikes.

[Grampie]

Only one question. WHY?

[TNhiker]

Only one question. WHY?

from the other thread---

"Cause I hate sleeping in shelters?"

[TNhiker]

and to be honest-----

he doesnt really need to answer that question...


after all, it is HIS hike......

[Malto]

Only one question. WHY?

Please read the rules of this sub forum. It was bad enough that the OP got trashed on the other thread.

[Lone Wolf]

Only one question. WHY?

trail running and speed hiking forum. that's why. go elsewhere

[Stevep311]

Can you give a bit of background on how many high mile (30+) days that you done, how recent, how many back to back, typical elevation gain etc. one thing to consider is that you did by far the toughest day of the two. I did a 50 mile day, out and back south from Newfound Gap and it was one of the toughest days I have done. In your case the combo of the hike up out of Fontana combined with a very tough series of climbs south of Clingmans dome had a boatload of elevation gain.

The most I had done in the past was 20 mile day, but I was carrying 25 - 30lbs and this time I cut it down to approx 13lbs. Additionally I dropped from 182lbs down to 167 as a result of my workouts. This was a first for me in "long distance" hiking and I knew it'd be a stretch to make it. So I concede that I am a beginner but I was willing to put in the hours and sweat to meet the goal. I just think I really underestimated how much it would wear on my body, specifically my knees.

I knew that the first day was going to be really tough due to the elevation climbs, but strategically I thought leaving the 2nd day as an "easier" one made sense.

[Stevep311]

trail running and speed hiking forum. that's why. go elsewhere

Thank you Lone Wolf!

[Stevep311]

I somewhat answered it in your other thread, copied below:



However, to answer your more specific question: "How could I have trained better for this?"

One important thing needs to be known. How was your general fitness prior to your training for this endeavor?


The reason that is important is because the more active a lifestyle the better off you are; however, if you've lived a somewhat sedentary lifestyle than the preparations for completing this goal will take more time. It takes a lot of time and patience to build up a strong frame and if you try and hurry that process, especially at your age, you will eventually injure yourself.

Bottom line: Developing a strong frame (you already have the cardio conditioning to do it) takes time and patience. Furthermore, if you keep working yourself to injury, like you did on this last attempt the longer it may take you to get to that goal.


You're much better off doing consistently shorter hikes than these once-in-awhile record setting hikes.

Your thoughts on relaxing the cardio workouts a bit and "developing a stronger frame" make sense to me after my experience. I guess the only way I could have succeeded would have been to do several weeks worth of long day hikes beforehand and somehow incorporated these into my training. I know that probably sounds like such an obvious statement but I just don't have the time to do those every week. I guess there is no substitute.

[Rasputen]

Nice job! 37.5 is a good day.
Did the 72 in 2 days Oct 2013 at the age of 50 with my 25 year old nephew. Always enjoyed pushing myself a little.
Have been a hiker and runner for 35+years and really did nothing special to prep for it. I just went for it and enjoyed it.
Thinking about doing it again-just because.. Hope you find the inspiration again and succeed! It's just walking....

[Malto]

The most I had done in the past was 20 mile day, but I was carrying 25 - 30lbs and this time I cut it down to approx 13lbs. Additionally I dropped from 182lbs down to 167 as a result of my workouts. This was a first for me in "long distance" hiking and I knew it'd be a stretch to make it. So I concede that I am a beginner but I was willing to put in the hours and sweat to meet the goal. I just think I really underestimated how much it would wear on my body, specifically my knees.

I knew that the first day was going to be really tough due to the elevation climbs, but strategically I thought leaving the 2nd day as an "easier" one made sense.

I don't believe you were close to ready to attempt this distance on back to back days. Overall fitness is one thing but you have to be in top HIKING shape which requires much more distance training than a couple of 20 mile days. I believe hiking a 30 mile day is twice as hard as 20 over similar terrain. My first 30 was after a couple of low 20s and I could hardly walk the next day. Seriously, I would declare victory if you recover from this without having some short/mid term issues. Jumping from 20 to 36 with incredibly tough terrain was a hill too many. But, once you recover you can build your way up in a more gradual fashion. Also, doing back to back 36s is yet another whole level of beyond just a single. I would have suggested at least a couple 40 mile days before attempting this trip.

[Stevep311]

I don't believe you were close to ready to attempt this distance on back to back days. Overall fitness is one thing but you have to be in top HIKING shape which requires much more distance training than a couple of 20 mile days. I believe hiking a 30 mile day is twice as hard as 20 over similar terrain. My first 30 was after a couple of low 20s and I could hardly walk the next day. Seriously, I would declare victory if you recover from this without having some short/mid term issues. Jumping from 20 to 36 with incredibly tough terrain was a hill too many. But, once you recover you can build your way up in a more gradual fashion. Also, doing back to back 36s is yet another whole level of beyond just a single. I would have suggested at least a couple 40 mile days before attempting this trip.

All good points that I completely agree with, hindsight is.......Anyway, you're spot on about the short/mid term issues. My left knee is still tender (probably a minor sprain) a week and a half later. Not too worried. I learned a lot and still actually enjoyed myself. It was the first time that I've gone with less than 20lbs on my back and I will never go back to anything more. That part was truly liberating. The other bright side was that I got to spend most of the 2nd day at Standing Bear Farm/Hostel where i got to relax and drink several Pabst Blue Ribbons. Which is ironic since so many previous posters have said that one should take it easy and relax more while out there. If anyone has the chance I would highly recommend a stay there.

Thank you all for your input and support!!

[Dogwood]

I feel your pain. I was a mid 20's avg UL hiker with excellent endurance hiking for up to 16 hrs/day for wks at a time with no zeros but at a moderate pace when I did my first 30, a 33 miler in the rocky roller coaster trails of the Adirondaks in an on again off again day rain. I was uncomfortably tight for days after that not really capable without some significant physical hardship to back it up with another 30+. Fortunately, it was just a day hike. I went out too fast(stupid and I ultimately knew it but I didn't thoroughly preview the hike thinking it was only a mid 20 mile hike, that's what I was told) with two egomaniac competitive gung ho go go go brothers one a near Olympic cyclist and professional motocross racer and the other a triathlete nutritionist. They were sore too but they only did this as a day hike and could rest when I had to get back on the AT to complete a thru-hike two days later.

Malto is the creepy animal hiker on this thread. I agree with him. Although, carrying 25 - 30lbs and this time cutting it down to approx 13lbs and dropping from 182lbs down to 167 as a result workouts were steps in the right direction to achieve the goal I fully agree with all this having experienced it myself: "I don't believe you were close to ready to attempt this distance on back to back days. Overall fitness is one thing but you have to be in top HIKING shape which requires much more distance training than a couple of 20 mile days. I believe hiking a 30 mile day is twice as hard as 20 over similar terrain. My first 30 was after a couple of low 20s and I could hardly walk the next day. Seriously, I would declare victory if you recover from this without having some short/mid term issues. Jumping from 20 to 36 with incredibly tough terrain was a hill too many. But, once you recover you can build your way up in a more gradual fashion. Also, doing back to back 36s is yet another whole level of beyond just a single." I tried going from strong mid-high 20's being physically comfortable to 30+ dailies on a SHR thru and several CDT Colorado high elevation off trail alternates and doing several 14ers on a 30+ mile Colorado Trail thru and it wasn't happening on back to back to back days.

It's about training for distance on this type of terrain that includes the elevation changes on consecutive days that I would be looking at in prep for this goal.

[rafe]

I trained by doing 3 months worth of P90X, running 3-6 miles everyday for 3 months, and on the weekends I did a couple dozen hikes with my 2 year old strapped to my back--she and the pack are equivalent to 3x the weight of the total pack weight I used on my attempt.

How much of that hiking was on terrain similar to the Smokies? How did you decide that you could do this?

I'm a wuss, so I'd never really consider even trying what you did. But if I did, I think I would build up to it, you know? A pair of 20 mile days, then a pair of 25 mile days, etc. Maybe that's just me.

OK, so maybe the Smokies (with their shelter reservation requirements) aren't the best venue for that sort of practice. Why the Smokies, then? There's plenty of other challenging terrain on the AT, some it just north or south of GSMNP.

[Dogwood]

I've personally witnessed FKTs and some of the elite of the elite fastest hikers. I know Malto has too. Heck, he's one of them. Some may say it's about hiking long durations. From what I've observed when it was thought no one was watching these folks tend to hike at a fast no nonsense pace too plus long durations. Poof. Gone. Oh there they are going over that rise far far away. LOL.

[rafe]

Anecdotal but vaguely relevant... My first 20 mile day was coming into Davenport Gap northbound. It was on a dare, kind of. I felt OK that evening but the next day it was a struggle just doing 14. That was with a monster pack. Anyway, I saw that repeated many times in different ways by many hikers. A huge day followed by a crawl.

[Dogwood]

Well, we can safely state you took a shot at expanding your comfort zone. LOL. I say stay at the training if you you feel physically up to it. Take another shot at it. But first do back to back 28's or even 30's on gentler terrain. And, take care of those knees. Perhaps, work in some natural anti inflammatory foods and supplements aimed at joints into the training.