My opinion doesn't discriminate. Hand sanitizer is only a dollar.Originally Posted by Jeff
....or is it that those you now are attempting to denigrate do have a better handle on fact based reality. While the noro issue could be because of a lack of sanitation among hikers, it could also be from other factors. See below - incidentally this news article is from New England. Just saying here that the noro issue down south is not necessarily caused by "nasty people that have no common decency for themselves or others" as sethd513 labels the backpackers suffering from noro. That is what was/is rude and ignorant about his post. By the way I do not believe in unicorns and my reality is far from the accepted definition of paradise.
Newton, MA - Health officials have determined that it was a norovirus that sickened about 80 people over the weekend who ate at a Boston-area Chipotle Mexican Grill. Initial estimates suggested 25-30 customers had become ill.
“Yes, we believe it is a norovirus linked to only one restaurant, a sentiment shared by local health officials,” Chipotle officials said in a statement.
Health officials have found three violations that include chicken and steak not being held at proper temperatures, and an employee working while ill. The Boston Food Services Inspection Department has issued a temporary suspension of the Chipotle on Beacon Street in Cleveland Circle.
“Norovirus is usually transmitted from the feces to the mouth, either by drinking contaminated food or water or by passing from person to person,” according to Foodborne Illness. “Because noroviruses are easily transmitted, are resistant to common disinfectants, and are hard to contain using normal sanitary measures, they can cause extended outbreaks.”
"Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen." Louis L’Amour
Discrimination sometimes is better defined by those being discriminated against, than those doing the discriminating.
By the way - from the CDC IRT to sanitizers:
Practice proper hand hygiene
Wash your hands carefully with soap and water—
- especially after using the toilet and changing diapers, and
- always before eating, preparing, or handling food.
Noroviruses can be found in your vomit or stool even before you start feeling sick. The virus can stay in your stool for 2 weeks or more after you feel better. So, it is important to continue washing your hands often during this time.
Alcohol-based hand sanitizers can be used in addition to hand washing. But, they should not be used as a substitute for washing with soap and water.
"Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen." Louis L’Amour
Furlough, we are talking about GA. The op was worried about getting sick in GA. The op is planning a cheap informative possibly life changing trip for him and his family. People being inconsiderate of their actions lead to them potentially having to miss out. Hopefully it clears up and people can enjoy their time away. I'm glad there isn't an issue YET in my area. It's unfortunate others are dealing with it else where. Instead of over analyzing my post maybe your time would be better spent helping homeless children in third world countries have clean water and something to eat. Or helping in my area with the herioin boom we are seeing. Maybe donating more of your paycheck to people that can't/don't want to work. Are there issues in your home town that upset you?
Hand sanitizer isn't a substitute but it's better then washing away soap into a water source like is sometimes on the trail. Hand sanitizer seems more idiot proof. Thanks for the Yelp review on chipotle that isn't even near the trail btw. The fact of the matter is you either dig or you don't. I'm pointing the finger at the ones that don't. One bad apple can ruin the bunch. Nothing will change unless everyone is on board and that will clearly NEVER happen in my life time.
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If that's not a lack of sanitation I don't know what would be. It all starts with somebody not washing their hands after contact with their feces or their private parts.
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.
Wow, that's a pretty salty remark. There's an outbreak of Noro because there's no running water or indoor plumbing and poor hygiene practices. It's bound to happen, especially with the sheer number of people on the trail.
And yeah, some of these nasty people hiking down south are certainly from NE.
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
Perhaps instead of exclaiming how nasty people are on an internet forum, you do some outreach and teach LNT to your fellow hikers.
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
I work in an office that employs about 15 people. I almost never get sick. I've called in sick once in 10 years. Last year norovirus made its way through the office and I got it...out of the 15 people in the office 7 ended up getting it. And after the first person we were wiping everything down with clorox 3 times a day. If you're in close quarters with people who have it, you're going to get it. It only lasts for a day or so, you'll get over it.
sethd513 wasn't talking about, or being critical, of southerners, he was talking about the large crowds that start in the spring in the south, and those people are from all over the country. A combination of large crowds, with many of the people unprepared and not understanding LNT and basic trail hygiene all contribute to norovirus outbreaks.
Well, you certainly just proved one of my favorite sayings to be true - "Reading is fundamental, comprehension is not" You brought up New England not me, you - not me called out folks who you have no details on, assuming they were nasty people. Getting a bit over defensive now are you not? High school level debate tactic to bring up issues having nothing to with norovirus/original OP (homeless children and clean water) to deflect away from the real topic/issue. Come on man use your brain for some critical thinking. Of course the chipotle is not near the trail, really was not the point, but I suspect you may know that, but are being obtuse because in your heart of hearts you know your name calling was wrong. Much more mature ways to make your point.
Let me simplify for you. Of course norovirus is an issue. Stick to that, and providing constructive commentary and stay away from the name calling. Then you won't have old farts like me chiming in about rudeness and ignorance, well that may not be 100% correct given the history here on WB.
"Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen." Louis L’Amour
Simple Question. When you say soap, can I assume Dr. Bonners or Campsuds will qualify, or should I pack some Irish Spring? I already carry the former, but could always pack the latter if needed.
"How can something this hard be so much fun".
What soap you use doesn't really matter, just use it to throughly wash your hands.
I'm not being over defensive or trying to make a high school debate about something I know nothing about because I'm not physically there. Im just saying gross people do gross things. There are people out there that are clean and are not. Doesn't matter where they are from, how they look it's just who they are as people. It's their choice. They probably don't even comprehend how their actions remotely effect the area around them. And if they do then they just don't care and I could say much worse about those.Well, you certainly just proved one of my favorite sayings to be true - "Reading is fundamental, comprehension is not" You brought up New England not me, you - not me called out folks who you have no details on, assuming they were nasty people. Getting a bit over defensive now are you not? High school level debate tactic to bring up issues having nothing to with norovirus/original OP (homeless children and clean water) to deflect away from the real topic/issue. Come on man use your brain for some critical thinking. Of course the chipotle is not near the trail, really was not the point, but I suspect you may know that, but are being obtuse because in your heart of hearts you know your name calling was wrong. Much more mature ways to make your point.
Let me simplify for you. Of course norovirus is an issue. Stick to that, and providing constructive commentary and stay away from the name calling. Then you won't have old farts like me chiming in about rudeness and ignorance, well that may not be 100% correct given the history here on WB.
The issue here is that the op is concerned for his family's health and safty. Not the chipotle in Newton ma that had an outbreak. Going down that root brought me to global concerns. This is a fickle discussion. I was being inconsiderate of those sick the way I worded things but I feel my point is valid. Dig a hole. Wash your hands! Plenty people don't.
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Most liquids that are sold as soap are actually a detergent. They are chemically two different things. Real soap is better because it completely breaks down.
For the 1000th time, Hand sanitizer does not work for norovirus. Wipes are slightly more effective since there is a chance the virus will wipe off onto the cloth.
Mild food poisoning can also be mistaken for norovirus. There are plenty of ways to get an upset tummy or the squirts on the trail. Binging on greasy food in town can produce some bad results the next day.
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Dr Bonners and Campsuds are both soaps and biodegradable.
What makes norovirus persistent is it can live for weeks on surfaces and clothing.
What do you suggest for wipes? I've used a couple different kinds but they seam to be scented and something neutral that works well would seem best. Or would you suggest filtering water and using a small amount of soap to wipe down?
I carry a bottle of concentrated biodegradable soap, and am conscious of washing whenever the occasion calls for it: doing number one or number two, or touching surfaces that a lot of people come in contact with. Fist-bump, as opposed to shake hands, avoid shelters - treat most surfaces as possible germ sources. I was down in NC during the start of last year's bubble and was generally aware of keeping things clean. Fortunately, nothing bad emerged.
Good to hear that nothing major is brewing at the moment!
Definitely enjoy the time and don't freak out about it, just be aware.
As far as clothing goes, one would hope it gets washed down thoroughly from time to time. I dunno how long this virus lives on exposed wood surfaces, but like Slo says, not every trailside illness is Norovirus.
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