Enlightened Equipment Quilts

[Minos]

I am about to purchase one Revelation quilt from Enlightened Equipment following the rave reviews I have read online. They seem to be recommended here quite often so I guess many of you probably have good advice and feedback on them. Reason for a quilt: I toss and turn a lot during the night and I do not like being constricted during my sleep.

Now, I understand that one quilt for all conditions may not work best. I mostly camp in the Spring (Southern states), Summer and first half of Fall. I am not a cold sleeper. I envision to backpack in the Sierras (JMT), in the Wind River Range, sometimes above the tree line.

I guess a two-quilt-system would be better in order not to carry excessive weight in Summer and have enough insulation in the colder seasons. I am thinking of 40F for Summer and 20F for the rest of the year (I will probably start by getting the 40F and see from there). Is this a good starting point combination? If not, what would you suggest? Insights? Suggested temperature ratings?

Also, I will be camping with my partner in a Tarptent Double Rainbow which is single wall (to be purchased soon). Would you suggest getting weather protection stripes for the quilt? Suggestion? Experience?

I have asked the good folks at EE whether they can do the quilt with only a single weather protection stripe at the foot (to reduce weight penalty) and they said it is possible. Wouldn't that be optimal? I fail to understand the need for weather protection stripes at the head since the head is generally not touching the wall of the tent unlike the feet which may move around a bit more during the night.

Again, the Tarptent will be my first ever single wall tent, so I do not know what to expect in terms of condensation with one full-size 190lb adult an a smaller 110lb partner. As of now, I have been hauling around my faithful $30 Walmart Ozark dome tent (student here... but tutoring massively this semester to get dinero for my UL camping gear $$ which is also a good way to refresh my probability and statistics skills...)

Thoughts and feedback? Thanks for your help

Minos

[squeezebox]

Don't forget to buy the double up straps, so you can layer the 2 quilts on top of each other.

[SWODaddy]

I think the purpose for the strip at the top is to have a more water resistant fabric near where condensation from your breath could accumulate. Also, it wouldn't hurt to have stronger fabric as you can tug on the snap as you toss and turn at night.

I have a 20deg Revelation quilt and love it. Plan to buy a 50deg quilt for the summer but then, I'm a warm sleeper (my go to for now down to 50deg is a military surplus woobie).

[Venchka]

You breathe on the upper part of the quilt. A major source of condensation. Or not. It depends on several micro-climatic conditions. What is the weight penalty? A few grams? Get the protection.
Have fun in the Winds. Yes, you will be above treeline. Go to the Winds first. September is perfect there. Bear cans & permits not required. After Wyoming (don't overlook the Teton Crest Trail), you might not want to be part of the herd on the JMT. Enjoy!

Wayne

[bigcranky]

You're breathing on the head end, which makes it damp/wet. That's why.

Are you totally set on the Double Rainbow? I love Tarptents and Henry Shires is a great guy, we've owned probably four or five of them. But the DR is one that just did not work for the two of us (it did very well as a solo tent for me). The major advantage of the DR is great performance in high winds, but the interior volume is not great. I don't want your first experience with a single wall tent to be that you spent all night and the next morning pressed up against a wet interior wall because the walls slope in so much.

EE quilts have a great rep. A 40F quilt for summer use is a terrific idea -- it gets you used to using a 2-person quilt in mild conditions. (I assume it'll be a 2-person quilt?) Then adding a 20F quilt for spring and fall is fine, and putting them together for cold weather is awesome.

[Hosh]

I've pretty much followed the same path, Rev 20 Rev 40 with the layer quilt strap system. I did not do the weather proof top nor bottom, but I typically stay in the semi arid Rocky Mtns or the arid SE Utah. TT are going to have more than normal condensation, extended nights, limited opportunities for drying time, dual sleepers might be a formula of excess condensation. I have found it not to be an issue and felt the the weight penalty unnecessary.

However, I am an interloper on a predominately east coast forum, so buyer beware

You will be happy with EE's design, cost, service and value.

[archie]

I use an Enigma 20 for all 3 season trips. I will eventually get another one for summer use but the quilt is flexible enough and light enough I haven't felt compelled to get another just yet. The REV will be even more adaptable to warmer temps.

I have a stripe on the foot end only. It certainly is resistant to water, but I don't know how it would be without the stripe. I suspect it would be fine. I use a Tarp or LHG Solo and I am a VERY active and restless side and stomach sleeper and my foot box always ends up on the walls or outside. I have never had an issue with frost getting the top of the quilt wet, though I don't take the quilt lower than the occasional upper teens and I breath to the side.

I love my EE quilt and would never trade it for something different!

[cmoulder]

A common strategy is to put the rain shell on top of the foot-end of the quilt.

Re the stripes, I don't have them on any of my (3) EE quilts, which are an Enigma 20, Rev 50 and Prodigy 40. I think (not know) that they might actually dry out faster with the simple (and very thin!) 10D shells. If the weather forecast is for a protracted rainy spell I'll take the Prodigy, which, despite using synthetic fill (Apex Climashield), is still light enough at 17.7 oz and really excels in super-wet conditions. I've used it a few trips when a down bag would've been an absolute disaster... relative humidity close to 100%, 50°F ambient, inside a Duomid with heavy rain outside and condensation mist wetting everything inside, and no sunshine and warm breeze to dry things out.

[DuneElliot]

From someone who lives in the mountains, across the valley from the Winds, I can honestly say the 40* bag will get almost no use. I would never hit the mountains in Wyoming with anything less than a 20* bag. I bought a 10* EE Convert (Revelation with a zip) because I am a cold sleeper. Even down on the Wyoming plains, night temps can often go down into the 40s, and night time mountain temps often go below freezing, even in August (trust me, I've seen and camped in it many times).

I don't know how big the TT tent you have is but the weather strips are only an extra oz for both (I actually wish I'd got them but changed from a slim to a regular so wanted to lose the correlating weight difference).

[Venchka]

From someone who lives in the mountains, across the valley from the Winds, I can honestly say the 40* bag will get almost no use. I would never hit the mountains in Wyoming with anything less than a 20* bag. I bought a 10* EE Convert (Revelation with a zip) because I am a cold sleeper. Even down on the Wyoming plains, night temps can often go down into the 40s, and night time mountain temps often go below freezing, even in August (trust me, I've seen and camped in it many times).

I don't know how big the TT tent you have is but the weather strips are only an extra oz for both (I actually wish I'd got them but changed from a slim to a regular so wanted to lose the correlating weight difference).

We have to stop telling folks about Wyoming. The next thing you know Wyoming will be as crowded as California.
Thanks for confirming my gear selection for the Wind River Range in late August and September.

Wayne

[Venchka]

ps: The Star Valley is one of my favorite places. I rode through there on my bike back in the Dark Ages. Lovely place. Lovely people. But I won't tell anyone. Grinning.

Wayne

[DuneElliot]

We have to stop telling folks about Wyoming. The next thing you know Wyoming will be as crowded as California.
Thanks for confirming my gear selection for the Wind River Range in late August and September.

Wayne

I usually keep my mouth shut, but since the OP brought up the Wind River Range I went with the flow. Glad to be of assistance...let me know if I can be of any other help regarding Wyoming hiking.

[Dogwood]

A common strategy is to put the rain shell on top of the foot-end of the quilt.

Re the stripes, I don't have them on any of my (3) EE quilts, which are an Enigma 20, Rev 50 and Prodigy 40. I think (not know) that they might actually dry out faster with the simple (and very thin!) 10D shells. If the weather forecast is for a protracted rainy spell I'll take the Prodigy, which, despite using synthetic fill (Apex Climashield), is still light enough at 17.7 oz and really excels in super-wet conditions. I've used it a few trips when a down bag would've been an absolute disaster... relative humidity close to 100%, 50°F ambient, inside a Duomid with heavy rain outside and condensation mist wetting everything inside, and no sunshine and warm breeze to dry things out.

This matches my quilt approach as far as temp ratings. I have since amended the line up by replacing the EE Enigma 20* with a Katabatic Alsek 22* 850 water resistant down(long, wide) quilt reasoning: since I too toss and turn alot mainly as a side sleeper don't want drafts in a quilt only sleep system ESPECIALLY when cowboy(open) sleeping near or below the 20* temp mark as is typical for me. IMO Katabatic has THE BEST pad attachment system I'm aware of in a quilt which is important in the coldest quilt temp ratings for the way I side toss and turn sleep IMO to avoid drafts(more on avoiding drafts to follow). Plus the Pertex Quantum shell of the Alsek has an excellent high quality long lasting DWR. The down filled Kat Alsek collar is awesome helping to create a tight seal which IMO is again important in below freezing temps cowboy or tarp camping as a side sleeping toss and turner and when pushing the quilt's temp ratings. With these characteristics, and me being me, the Kat Alsek was definitely a better performing choice for me than the EE Enigma 20*. I'd say the Alsek 22* temp ratings are right on or maybe even a little conservatively rated.

About 20*+ is the lowest temp rating I'm comfortable with in a quilt. Much below regular 15* outside temps hooded UL highest end sleeping bags have the advantage IMO for me. FF Swallow UL to the rescue.

The 50* Revelation 900 fp Down Tek is my lightest quilt/bag coming in at less than 12 oz (long, wide) which I find very versatile in a wide range of conditions beyond mid summer months by amending with the addition of a MLD Superlight bivy(sub 5 oz, CF bottom) and/or Cocoon 100% silk liner(about 4 oz) and tweaking the pad(underground insulation). I've had it on irregular occasion down to 23 * cowboy/bivy camping in summer at higher elevations all the way up to 100+* when the conditions are quite variable like in the desert in spring and winter and when elev. changes are really significant on a trip. Where I'm at with this quilt and with my wt reducing it may permanently replace a WM Highlite at 17 oz(long). The EE Rev 50* also serves as my tweaked UQ in a hammock saving money from purchasing a separate UQ.

I also have a Prodigy 40* for the wettest conditions like in the Pacific Northwest usually when I'm out for extended periods(10 + nights before heading to town for a resupply) having little opp to possibly dry out a down quilt(just as Cmoulder is reasoning). Then again, I take steps not to place myself in the situation where down loft is regularly compromised over the long term. I don't use it that often though as the combined attributes of quilts with water resistant down, high quality DWR/WP breathable shells, highly WR bivy, protecting down loft with WP stuff sacks/hybrid CF seam taped backpacks, my types of trips, and some user considerations help me still get away with a down quilt.

When I started out with quilts I too was strongly influenced by having a reducing wt agenda. I made the mistake of being blinded by extremely low/the lowest spec wts of quilts outside of myself, my usages, the rest of my gear and hiking style, etc. I mistakenly purchased quilts in a stupid light mindset by choosing quilts that were not or barely so long and wide enough. I didn't heed some good recs like choosing the length of a quilt to come up to just below my nose(breathe out through the nose to avoid breathing vapor into a down quilt) rather than being too short leaving gaps around the shoulders or leaving shoulders partly exposed. Joe Valesco offers some brief quilt info I should have considered more. I also purchased quilts not wide enough for my toss and turning sleep style which for me created drafts - NOT wanted in 20* temps cowboy or open tarp camping in more exposed situations. IMHO, performance wise there's less room for error with quilt sizing than sleeping bags especially in relation to my situation. IMHO, more things have to be considered with a quilt sleep/sheltering system perhaps making quilt use sometimes more complex needing more thought of kit integration to save those 3-5 ozs comparatively to a sleeping bag.

Concerned with condensation you can do as Cmoulder said by placing a wind jacket or dry rain jacket over your feet, avoid/reduce condensation inside a shelter in the first place(research it rather than doing as some complaining about it as if it's always a given), don't touch condensation on walls, wipe condensation off if it does form, and consider water resistant down. Plus Tim already uses a DWRed 10d top fabric. In my use I have no need for more protective or water resistant bands to avoid condensation at the foot end or at the top end with a EE 50* Rev. Again, don't breathe into and preferably directly onto a down quilt/sleeping bag especially if the fabric isn't maintaining a good DWR or better.

Based on the OP's situation I'd say a Rev 40* Enlightened Equipment quilt is a great way to enter into the the quilt market considering a broad variety of factors.

BTW, the Ozark Trail Dome is/will be questionable in a good many situations. Wouldn't find me in one in the Winds or above treeline by choice.

[Dogwood]

One more thins. If you look at various cottage quilt manufacturers make note of the cuts and dimensions in regard to your body and how you sleep. One companies reg shoulder width could be 48", 54", with another company a reg width being 56" or 58." Big difference in coverage and avoiding drafts for a side sleeping toss and turner!!!

[Venchka]

I usually keep my mouth shut, but since the OP brought up the Wind River Range I went with the flow. Glad to be of assistance...let me know if I can be of any other help regarding Wyoming hiking.

Thank you. I appreciate your generous offer. When I know more about my schedule and travel plans I will be in touch.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

[Minos]

One more thins. If you look at various cottage quilt manufacturers make note of the cuts and dimensions in regard to your body and how you sleep. One companies reg shoulder width could be 48", 54", with another company a reg width being 56" or 58." Big difference in coverage and avoiding drafts for a side sleeping toss and turner!!!

Thanks for all the feedback.

Indeed I have reviewed carefully the dimensions and I have to admit that I am not 100% sure on that.
I am 185lb and 6ft (72in) (trying to get down to 178lb!) and I was thinking at getting a Long (84in) to ensure I am well covered at least to the ears and below the nose. However, I am still not too sure about the width: Regular (54" and 40" at foot) or Wide (58" and 42").

I am a stomach sleeper(hence why I want a long) but toss and turn. I am not sure 40" at the foot is sufficient to move the feet enough but 42" is barely bigger anyway.

I have a feeling that I can get the Regular width especially for my Summer quilt and possibly upsize it to a Wide for the 20F quilt down the road if I find it a bit too tight for colder weather.

[Minos]

BTW, the Ozark Trail Dome is/will be questionable in a good many situations. Wouldn't find me in one in the Winds or above treeline by choice.

I wouldn't go there with the Ozark. This is why I am also shopping for a tent.

[cmoulder]

I have a feeling that I can get the Regular width especially for my Summer quilt and possibly upsize it to a Wide for the 20F quilt down the road if I find it a bit too tight for colder weather.

I agree that you'd probably be fine with long/reg for the warmer quilts. Wide for the 20°F quilt is wise because it permits the wearing of down parka/pants to supplement the quilt when it's really cold. I've used my 20°F down to -6°F (along with an adequate air mat/CCF pad, of course) and remained quite comfortable.

[Dogwood]

Thanks for all the feedback.

Indeed I have reviewed carefully the dimensions and I have to admit that I am not 100% sure on that.
I am 185lb and 6ft (72in) (trying to get down to 178lb!) and I was thinking at getting a Long (84in) to ensure I am well covered at least to the ears and below the nose. However, I am still not too sure about the width: Regular (54" and 40" at foot) or Wide (58" and 42").

I am a stomach sleeper(hence why I want a long) but toss and turn. I am not sure 40" at the foot is sufficient to move the feet enough but 42" is barely bigger anyway.

I have a feeling that I can get the Regular width especially for my Summer quilt and possibly upsize it to a Wide for the 20F quilt down the road if I find it a bit too tight for colder weather.

I was in the same position not sure of shoulder width I needed when I first started out with quilts. I made the mistake of prioritizing wt over everything else or not in context with other factors as I previously stated. Compounding that mistake I started out with a 20* cold weather quilt using it cowboy camping. Drafts and disruptive sleep was the norm. IMO, a slightly not wide enough quilt resulting in some drafts with a 40* quilt at 50-60* outside temp is more forgiving than a 20* not quite wide enough quilt at 20*. I went with a 54" wide GoLite 20* down quilt as my shiny new toy. I was always cold in it anywhere near the 20* rating. It wasn't because Golite didn't make a great quilt or fudged specs. It was because I got my dimensions wrong which was compounded by me expecting to use a 20* bag for a sound night's sleep at 20* while cowboy camping and my inexperience as a Newbie quilt user.

Don't make the same mistake I did. Get your 40* quilt first. Try it out in more forgiving temps. See how it goes. If drafty you definitely need a wider quilt or tweak something(liner, bivy, sleep always inside an enclosed tent, etc) in the 20* quilt.

You might also review the dimensions of a comfortable sleeping bag you have or can demo as a guideline. I went by my narrow mummy cut WM Highlite Long with a 60" shoulder width as a minimum as a side sleeper turner and worked backwards concluding FOR ME I could afford losing up to a 6" wide trapezoidal strip of the sleeping bag under me. For me, the narrowest girth dimension I can use with my turning side sleeping habits, med frame(49" shoulder width), and shape(ectomorph) I can do is a 54" in an EE summer quilt but prefer a 56-58" width for winter or as a TQ in a hammock. As CM stated that bit of extra room and coverage is appreciated in cold weather for sleeping in a down jacket. BUT, again IMHO Katabatic's pad attachment system which is rather simple prevents drafts for me even in a reg width(52") in a long I tried.

I think Kat was right on jiving with my observances when they said this:

SIZING

Should I get the WIDE or the REGULAR width?
Our “shoulder width” measurement reflects the width of the quilt when it is spread out flat. When drawn in for cold weather, we have found that our regular width ELITE bags fit comparably to traditional mummy bags with a 61” shoulder circumference. Our wide width bag fits comparably to a 67” shoulder circumference. Our FLEX series of bags are about 2″ wider than the ELITE.
Potential reasons to get the WIDE:
• Particularly broad shoulders (see below)
• Large or wide build (see below)
• Storing gear inside the bag while sleeping
• You just like to have extra room when in your bag
A good way to decide: measure your shoulder circumference. If it is at 50”, the ELITE regular width will be a snug fit, and the wide will be a roomy fit. If you are below 50”, the ELITE regular width will work, unless you prefer the extra room. Above 50”, you’ll be more comfortable in the wide. Again, the FLEX quilts run about 2″ wider than the ELITE, so use the same rule as above, except a measurement of 52″.

[Minos]

I was in the same position not sure of shoulder width I needed when I first started out with quilts. I made the mistake of prioritizing wt over everything else or not in context with other factors as I previously stated.

Thanks for the extensive feedback... this is much appreciated and I will keep that in mind.
I am definitely going for the 40F first to :
- make sure the sizing is right on the quilt used in more forgiving temperatures
- perform my "trials" with the "cheaper" quilt and only once I feel everything is right do I invest more in the shoulder season / higher altitude quilt.

I'll try the 40F this coming Spring while camping during the GT regattas on Lake Lanier (I guess you know where this is!)

I have a feeling that I will upsize width anyway for the 20F quilt to make sure that I can sleep with extra cloth on if it gets really cold as cmoulder recommended. Long is giving me some extra room to play with, so having a Wide will compound the comfort.
(I am familiar with the concept that stomach sleepers need a bit more length due to ankles and feet being stretched out horizontally while sleeping).

Great advice guys!