Arent the larger clothing compainies just copying the Military ECWCS systems?

[denimlabels]

Im was looking at a pair of Patagonia midweight baselayer bottoms. They were expensive.

They look just like the ECWCS Gen 3 L2 polartech Bottoms that you can pick up for a fraction of capiline. If you compare the prices and material quality to most of the big name companies selling outdoor gear, it pretty much all looks based on the Military system with the addition of unusual colors and little bells and whistles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extend...lothing_System

[damskipi]

Sometimes, yes. And I admit to taking advantage of it by setting some of my issued items aside to use hiking

[bigcranky]

LOL, it's the other way around. Military gear has changed a lot in the last twenty years, since they discovered synthetics and Goretex and comfortable packs and the like. So, yeah, outdoor gear and military gear are similar these days, but not for the reason you think. And, yeah, you can save some money on, say, base layers if you don't mind the dull brown color, but I have found a huge difference in comfort between manufacturers even when the fabric had the same name.

[Just Bill]

It's debatable who copied who, or worked for whom really.
The link you shared shows that system being developed in the early 80's.
Polartec (malden mills) was developed in the late 70's, and Patagonia, The North Face, and LL Bean have all been around longer than that.

The fabric all generally comes from a few specific mills, with various customers big enough to develop their own housebrands of fabrics.
Malden Mills almost exclusively made most fleece fabrics listed in your wiki article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malden_Mills

As far as I know, Patagonia came up with the original 1,2,3 system. And Climbashield and Primaloft have both developed insulations with/for the military.

Either way...
Your basic premise is the same; if you learn what the different fabrics are, you'll find lots of folks use them.
Once you learn how to identify the fabrics you can find deals from all kinds of places that don't have the marketing, customer service, or return policies that double and triple the retail costs.

Although- your timing is decent as Patagucci started the spring 50% off sale today. http://www.patagonia.com/us/shop/web-specials?k=ga

The current midweight baselayer is listed as-

• 5.2-oz (175-g) Polartec® Power Grid™ 97% polyester (66% recycled)/3% spandex double knit with Polygiene® permanent odor control. Fabric is bluesign® approved

Fabric made by Polartec and available from many places.
http://www.amazon.com/Polartec-ECWCS.../dp/B00IA3ZVG2
This lists Polartec® Power Dry® Grid material but no weight of fabric- picture of tag says 93% poly and 7% spandex- so slightly different blend with no odor control.

Bottoms only for $22- by the look and listed weight though... might be closer to a heavyweight in Patagonia.
On sale Patagucci is $42.

Looks like a decent deal and genuine polartec fabric. If they fit- go for it.
Mags would be proud.

[damskipi]

I have found a huge difference in comfort between manufacturers even when the fabric had the same name.

I have also seen a difference, in favor of the military items. Certainly this isn't true for all items, but some of my issued base layers are so comfy that I wear them around the house on a regular basis.

[The Cleaner]

There's a big sale at Patagonia's webstore going on now..

[The Cleaner]

Last fall I got a ECWCS soft shell jacket and pants.Windproof and warm.Nice ACU camo pattern too.080.JPG

[MuddyWaters]

LOL, it's the other way around. Military gear has changed a lot in the last twenty years, since they discovered synthetics and Goretex and comfortable packs and the like. So, yeah, outdoor gear and military gear are similar these days, but not for the reason you think. And, yeah, you can save some money on, say, base layers if you don't mind the dull brown color, but I have found a huge difference in comfort between manufacturers even when the fabric had the same name.

Cleaning out attic a few weeks ago, found a bin with my old M65 field jacket and cold weather liner. Also poncho.

When I was a kid only place to get hunting gear was army surplus store.

Honestly, it was all serious crap.

[denimlabels]

The ECWES 3 L3 Fleece looks just like a Mountain Hardware Monkey Man Fleece. The L4 Wind jacket looks pretty nice also at 12.99 Nylon Spandex. If you really hate the colors you could always buy a box of Dye. IMO, people pay way too much for names. I buy most of my stuff at thrift shops and its all great stuff some other fool paid full price for.

[egilbe]

The military finally started copying/using hi-tech fabrics during the first gulf war. Before that, it was polyfill fiber and wool. I would look at my fleece clothing from LLBean and wonder why the hell I was still being issued wool field trousers. Patagucci designed some of the clothing the military uses. High pile fleece with nylon in wear areas. I remember when I was first issued polypro long underwear. That was the end-all, be-all of military undergarments. Still issued us brown cotton t-shirts, though.

[Feral Bill]

I have a military ECW fleece that resembles Patagonia's. It' was much cheaper, and came in tall sizes. I like my clothes to fit.

[PD230SOI]

My feeling is that there always has been a back and forth with technology development and adoption. Sometimes the USG leads sometimes Uncle Sugar follows. It has been that's way for hundreds of years. Just look at the development of long guns for military use.

i think right now DOD is buying some decent stuff while a large number of my normal go to gear companies are developing fashion clothes and less real gear.

[v1k1ng1001]

The issue is what pieces are worth spending more on? Next to the skin, it's hard to beat Patagonia's Capilene if you want to go synthetic or icebreaker's merino.

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[JumpMaster Blaster]

The current ECWCS gear I have now is very good for military applications. The silkweight and "waffle" layers are extremely useful. The downside to military gear is WEIGHT. It's extremely durable and cheaper than Patagucci, but you pay dearly in terms of ounces. Because of this, I really only use the Polartec silk baselayers on trail. I have lighter items that made more sense to spend the $$$ on. One thing I have recently "repurposed" (and will take a $94 hit on my paycheck for) was the ECWCS soft shell wind jacket. After removing all the velcro tabs, shock cord and whatnot, I was able to shed a full 2 oz off of it. I'm pretty sure a similar brand-name wind jacket would run me at least $150.

[jacobprater]

I thought to same thing when I got out. Patagonia basically sells the waffle top with better colors and a label.


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[rocketsocks]

Im was looking at a pair of Patagonia midweight baselayer bottoms. They were expensive.

They look just like the ECWCS Gen 3 L2 polartech Bottoms that you can pick up for a fraction of capiline. If you compare the prices and material quality to most of the big name companies selling outdoor gear, it pretty much all looks based on the Military system with the addition of unusual colors and little bells and whistles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extend...lothing_System

sometimes it's the other way around. The military adopts features from civilians...at least early on in mountain gear design, now it's a brave new world and the cat has long been out of the bag particularly as materials evolved and in that sense yes the military has all the cool Shyte.

[Patriot76]

It is my opinion that individual companies do not pay for all of their research and development. Instead they write grants to have the government pay for this. Best example is Gore-Tex and their NASA grant. Once it is developed, the government gets good prices and the company makes money selling it to the general public. In the end the backpacker pays for the grant and the new technology. Hope this does not ruffle a few (down) feathers.

[peakbagger]

There are a couple of local firms in NH that make military gear. The military requires US manufactured clothing and generally their quality standards are very good. On occasion one of the local suppliers have a garage sale and some of the military gear ends up in it. Darn Tuff socks are manufactured in VT and at their annual factory sales they always have military seconds. They tend to be a bit more durable but a bit less initially comfortable as they have slightly higher synthetic blends.

Heck several years ago I got a camo Hyperlight Mountain Gear tent for a substantial discount. They apparently did a run of tents for special forces and had a few left over. Special forces units have far more flexible purchasing ability and apparently get to bypass standard military purchasing rules, they can buy off the shelf gear.

[TX Aggie]

Many times, it's a little of both. Much of the military systems come out of NADIK, but they don't exactly have a manufacturing plant so they contract with manufacturers to make their gear. Sometimes they bring in civilian gear with modifications, other times the in-house designers come up with the general design and the contractors make the product. If it ends up being a hit with the military, you better believe it will show up on the civilian market.

Two front and foremost examples of this are Eberlestock and Mystery Ranch packs.