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  1. #41
    Registered User Water Rat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    What I see in this photo:

    Attachment 33686

    One hiker celebrating with a bottle of champagne.



    What I see in the Jurek photos:

    Attachment 33687 Attachment 33688


    I think the problem is pretty self-evident. Scenes like these last two are what BSP doesn't want repeated nor to be associated with.
    Oh, the problem is more than evident. It's evident in the trail services closing, agencies drawing a line in the sand, and it is evident in what I have seen on the trail. You will get no disagreement from me on that! BSP has their rules, their rules are not being followed/respected and they have to draw a line in the sand. I am a respectful guest when I visit someone/someplace.

    My point (to the OP's post) was that the picture was not embracing the party atmosphere, nor did it even make me feel the need to carry a bottle to the top of Katahdin just because the hiker did. I guess it makes me one of the non-sheep if I can look at a picture and see it for what it is, and not take it as a message to go get drunk on a mountain.

    The picture was run during another time when the partying was not the issue it is today. Times change and the ATC is ever-evolving - Just like the trail and the people on the trail.

  2. #42
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Lantern View Post
    (Seems that some folks here just want to "kill the messenger" ).
    And honestly, it seems that you are more just revelling in getting back in a public venue at the ATC - for not printing your letter, not putting up your FB post, ignoring you, etc. It reveals itself in the context of your posts, things like "Grand Pooh - bah", not caring about "the peasants", the I told you so tone, etc. Just stating my honest impression of what you've written. We get it. ATC can be hypocritical. So can Baxter. Take the high road.
    I was self employed once, but it proved too stressful. My boss was a jerk and my employee was a slacker - I didn't know whether to quit or fire myself.

  3. #43
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rafe View Post
    So you acknowledge that ATC is now self-censoring in a way that they were not, 5.5 years ago.
    That was my thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Water Rat View Post

    The picture was run during another time when the partying was not the issue it is today. Times change and the ATC is ever-evolving - Just like the trail and the people on the trail.
    Exactly. Move along. Point made GL.

    My parents, uncles and aunts let us buy candy cigarettes at the corner store with leftover money from buying cigarettes! Yep. Ten years old and bought cigarettes. If you'd like, I can give you their phone numbers and you can start a thread from what happened on thirty years ago, too.

    Or,rather sensibly, we can talk about the current issues and how they are being addressed.
    Last edited by Mags; 02-17-2016 at 23:38.
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  4. #44
    Registered User evyck da fleet's Avatar
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    Meh. Times change. If the next issue shows a hiker feed on the cover and 5 1/2 years from now people who set them up without a permit get cited because no one cleans up afterwards, I don't think the picture would be embarrassing. But I guess someone in the vocal minority will come out with an I told you so thread. There's a difference between bending a rule out of exuberance and disregarding one for personal profit and glory. But if you want to be black and white about it, they are both wrong.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    What I see in this photo:

    Attachment 33686

    One hiker celebrating with a bottle of champagne.



    What I see in the Jurek photos:

    Attachment 33687 Attachment 33688


    I think the problem is pretty self-evident. Scenes like these last two are what BSP doesn't want repeated nor to be associated with.
    You hit that nail on the head, Buzz. The event Jurek held for himself at the summit sign, the violations by his drivers, support and film crews - and his arrogance afterwards are in a category outside the AT universe.
    Teej

    "[ATers] represent three percent of our use and about twenty percent of our effort," retired Baxter Park Director Jensen Bissell.

  6. #46

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    It never ceases to amaze me just how uptight the hiking community is -- talk about being wound tight

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedaling Fool View Post
    It never ceases to amaze me just how uptight the hiking community is -- talk about being wound tight
    Its the compression shorts.

  8. #48
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    While BSP is Maine public land, access is not unlimited nor without restrictions, and the BSP Trustees have broad powers. And THAT will not change. It would seem wise for the LD hiking community to work with BSP, rather than instigating what will eventually lead to further restrictions on AT thru-hikers and possibly even quotas and permits. Hiking in Baxter is a "privilege" that can be revoked - not some "unalienable right".

    Did BSP over-react in the Jurek situation? Yes, to some degree. And they probably could have responded in a better manner than the selective enforcement action they pursued. Did Scott's finish create a situation that wasn't within BSP rules and behavioral standards? Yes. Did he have complete control of the group(s) with him? No, but he definitely could have used his influence on camera crews, supporters, and well-wishers to mitigate the situation. BOTH sides could have done more to prevent the congregation and celebration atop Katahdin. BSP could have better anticipated what was transpiring, and Scott could have as well. Nether party is without blame.

    Both ATC and BSP have the difficult mission of simultaneous promoting hiking and usage, while also protecting and preserving the lands they are tasked with managing. They're in some ways almost incompatible missions. But as with many other things, lately many people have lost sight of the middle ground and have become polarized toward supporting one extreme vs. the other. What's reasonable seems to have vanished from too many people's perspective.
    I was self employed once, but it proved too stressful. My boss was a jerk and my employee was a slacker - I didn't know whether to quit or fire myself.

  9. #49
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    I like that summary, four-eyes. In my opinion -- social media had everything to do with the big Jurek brouhaha last summer. And might be the biggest change between 2010 and now. Affects both ATC and BSP, though maybe in different ways.

  10. #50
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Are you required to meet someone to judge their actions? I hope not.

    Still got two kinds of people here, some that think bsp is wrong, and those that think they are right. Some get panties in wad when others dont agree with them.

    It OK to have an opinion

    I think that photo serves as a solid reminder that good people -- smart people -- do not automatically think that spilling Champaign on Baxter Peak is littering. Even though it is.

    I am happy to give Laurie a pass on that mistake, just as I was happy to give Scott Jurek one.

    It is unfortunate that BSP not only refused to do so, but rather let the littering charges resonate with the public for some time before they explained exactly why they were levied.

  11. #51
    Cherry Pickin' the A-T Green Lantern's Avatar
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    We all have, as you put it, our "honest impressions".
    If your feet ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.

  12. #52
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    Not bad behavior then, not bad behavior now. The popping of of the cork and the passing the bottle so everyone has a sip in celebration of a great fete accomplished is a long standing tradition. This photo is a reflection of that tradition. The shame here goes to the park officials whose knee jerks have resulted in a series of unenforceable rules that no right minded hiker will follow. Park officials could go back to more meaningful activities if hikers would stop posting photos of the act of social media. chin chin

  13. #53
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    Laurie Potteiger from ATC here. The blame for that magazine cover rests squarely on me.

    Way to man-up Laurie.

  14. #54
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    That's it! Compression shorts.

  15. #55

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    Iconic and Ironic!

  16. #56

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