Toaks Siphon Alcohol Stove

[Casey & Gina]

Just wanted to take a moment to praise the Toaks Siphon Alcohol Stove, which I'm super-impressed with. It's a capillary hoop design, made of titanium. It is amazingly simple, offers easy fuel recovery, and is pretty efficient. It's amazingly strong as well - will not easily dent or deform, while still weighing 0.7 ounce. Small and nests inside my cup. My only criticism is their optional pot stand. It's about a half inch too high for maximum efficiency, so needs to be trimmed down. Easy enough.

Anybody else using one of these?

[capehiker]

I am and agree with your assessment. The stove itself is a rock star and blooms instantly. The pot stand it comes with is what hinders it. I feel it needs to be wider and a half inch shorter. I've been doing a lot of boil tests at home and will fire it up for a cup of coffee, but because I have yet to make or come across a sturdier base, it does not go in my pack. I did cut a square of wire off and got a boil time right at 6:00 minutes at home.

[Casey & Gina]

I am and agree with your assessment. The stove itself is a rock star and blooms instantly. The pot stand it comes with is what hinders it. I feel it needs to be wider and a half inch shorter. I've been doing a lot of boil tests at home and will fire it up for a cup of coffee, but because I have yet to make or come across a sturdier base, it does not go in my pack. I did cut a square of wire off and got a boil time right at 6:00 minutes at home.

You can shape the pot stand wider by just having a larger open section, or even making it more of an oval than round... The two ends are not meant to touch, but rather have a gap between them about as wide as the stove or so...

[donthaveoneyet]

I've wondered about this stove. But why is it any different from a simple cat can type stove (without the holes)? It's just a can, right?

As for the stand, I've been making (lots of) stands from hardware cloth, and experimenting with attaching a flashing liner to the stand. I've been amazed at the improvement in boil times doing that as opposed to a bare hardware cloth stand. (See pic below. I've made smaller ones, I just happen to have this pic on my phone.) I've been able to get boil times down from about 7:45 to under 6:00 just by adding the flashing (using a Zelph). Just an FYI re the stands...

IMG_0639[1].jpg

[Odd Man Out]

The Toaks stove is a capillary hoop stove style and is completely different than a cat food can stove. It has a double wall. Alcohol is drawn up between the walls by capillary action (the walls are very close together). At the top, there is wider area between the walls near the rim (the hoop) were the alcohol accumulates and vaporizes. Tiny holes in the hoop allow the fuel vapors to escape and burn to form the flame jets. Unlike most stoves, the fuel in the reservoir at the bottom does not vaporize. Only a small amount of fuel in hoop vaporizes. This is why they come to full power (bloom) very quickly with little priming time. Also, the pot does not set on the stove (like a cat can stove) so you need a pot stand, but the cold pot does not dampen the fuel vaporization either, and since you only need thermal feedback to vaporize the small amount of fuel in the hoop at the top of the stove, they work well in all temperatures (mine ran normally at 4 deg F last winter, although it took a bit longer to get going at that temp). There is a thread just started for those of us who build these out of aluminum cans. This is the only commercial CHS I know of. I would like to know how they compare to the DIY ones.

[Odd Man Out]

BTW, for a good comparison, it would help to know the components of the system (type of pot, pot stand height, type of wind screen), volume of water, initial temp of water, volume of fuel, time to full boil, time to flame out. From these data you can calculate power and efficiency and make fair comparisons to other systems.

[donthaveoneyet]

Thanks, OMO, I appreciate the explanation. That's very interesting. I think I'll pick one up (hell, I've ordered just about every other alcohol stove known to mankind)....

[capehiker]

I completely forgot I had a first look video of this burner, so I uploaded it. The action starts at 5:45 and I have a really nice overhead shot of the flame pattern at 10:30.

[ocourse]

I don't see anything here that would persuade me to purchase this. Any other advocates?

[donthaveoneyet]

I don't see anything here that would persuade me to purchase this. Any other advocates?

Was someone trying to persuade you to purchase something?

[ocourse]

I was saying that the information about the unit is not positively compelling. Nobody is trying to sell me on it, but it seems lacking to me.

[Odd Man Out]

I completely forgot I had a first look video of this burner, so I uploaded it. The action starts at 5:45 and I have a really nice overhead shot of the flame pattern at 10:30.

Thanks. First time I've seen that stove in action. It does not have a vortex flame pattern as the original DIY CHS designs do. That would help focus the flames on the center of the pot even more. Boil in just under 7 min with flame out at 10 min on 1 oz of fuel. Timing might be a bit off as he didn't start the clock right away when he lit the stove. But that comes out to boiling 2 cups with about 0.7 oz of fuel. A good wind screen could help with the efficiency and power/boil time (it's not just to keep the wind out). I don't buy the assertion that 1" above the stove is the optimal height. That probably needs to be optimized for each system. But a shorter stand might help this. An easy way to test (without having to cut your stand) is to prop the stove up on some blocks. You can test a bunch of different gaps that way with no modifications to the system necessary.

[pauly_j]

Do you need something like a syringe to recover the fuel?

[Casey & Gina]

Thanks. First time I've seen that stove in action. It does not have a vortex flame pattern as the original DIY CHS designs do. That would help focus the flames on the center of the pot even more. Boil in just under 7 min with flame out at 10 min on 1 oz of fuel. Timing might be a bit off as he didn't start the clock right away when he lit the stove. But that comes out to boiling 2 cups with about 0.7 oz of fuel. A good wind screen could help with the efficiency and power/boil time (it's not just to keep the wind out). I don't buy the assertion that 1" above the stove is the optimal height. That probably needs to be optimized for each system. But a shorter stand might help this. An easy way to test (without having to cut your stand) is to prop the stove up on some blocks. You can test a bunch of different gaps that way with no modifications to the system necessary.

A 1" height works better with this stove - Hiram Cook tested this (by doing exactly as you suggest and propping up the burner) and there is a youtube video showing the result. Donthaveoneyet's stand/windscreen looks like a great design.

The above video has the pot stand used incorrectly coiled up too tight, it is not big enough for the ends to meet. The pot stand is nothing special anyways, the burner is the nice part.

[Casey & Gina]

Do you need something like a syringe to recover the fuel?

Nope, you just pour it out like you would a small cup back into your storage container, one of the great things about this design. Then you can relight the burner to burn off any residual fuel in a few seconds.

[Casey & Gina]

FYI, I use one of the 3 pieces of my Toaks Wood Stove (my primary method of cooking) as a stand/windscreen. It's a little tall so I may find a rock, bit of bark, anything really to raise the stove a little.

[Casey & Gina]

..........

[Casey & Gina]

I was saying that the information about the unit is not positively compelling. Nobody is trying to sell me on it, but it seems lacking to me.

Lacking how exactly?

It is efficient, very strong, foolproof to use, does not require priming, blooms fast, forces fuel back into itself in the event of overpressurization, offers easy fuel recovery, and easier though less rewarding than DIY. Seems great to me! I'd be curious to hear what you find lacking though as I don't have a lot of experience with other stoves.

[zelph]

Capillary stoves are cool, easy DIY stoves:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKAFAsPfC4s

[pauly_j]

Has anyone perfected a way to effectively simmer with it? I like the look of the weight compared to my Trangia but not sure if the benefits outweigh the cons.

The burn looks a little concentrated compared to Trangia. May be great for boiling water but what if I'm cooking something? Is it more likely to burn in the middle rather than get a nice even burn?

Is it possible to simmer with these types of burner? It looks like the burn comes exclusively from the rim, which I imagine would be hard to create a device to simmer with.