Has anyone here attempted a SOBO starting after Labor Day?

[DSettahr]

Has anyone here attempted (or successfully completed) a SOBO hike starting after Labor Day? I am considering beginning a thru hike next year (2016) starting immediately after Labor Day. I am curious to hear from others who've had similar experiences, and see what suggestions/recommendations they may have- especially what they learned/what they would do differently if they were to do it again.

I understand that this is an ambitious itinerary, however, I've also got a lot of experience in the northeastern mountains in Fall and Winter, and feel strongly that I've got pretty realistic expectations of the conditions that I can expect to face.

Also, is there a good resource of what conditions one can expect to encounter in the Smokies at different times of year? It's not so much that I am worried about what I will encounter there, and more that I just want to make sure that I am sufficiently prepared when I get there.

[rafe]

Read, at the very least, the Barefoot Sisters Southbound journal. SOBO that late is mildly insane. If normal thru-hiking odds are 10%, I'd give that plan odds of about 0.1%.

[DSettahr]

Read, at the very least, the Barefoot Sisters Southbound journal. SOBO that late is mildly insane. If normal thru-hiking odds are 10%, I'd give that plan odds of about 0.1%.

Thanks for the recommendation. I will definitely check it out.

[fiddlehead]

Did it in 2001/2002 starting Oct 14.
Once you get past the whites, you can breathe a bit of a relief.
We went fast.
I believe our first big snow was on our last day in the whites.
I'll attach a pic from Mooselauke. (or coming up from Kinsman)

Another problem, besides the weather and long nights, is finding places open.
Many restaurants, hotels, hostels, and even some state parks and campgrounds close for the winter.

You can read about our trip here:
http://triplecrownoneyear.tripod.com/index.htm

we had support by the way.
Made it a lot easier.

whitessmaller.jpg

[fiddlehead]

Sorry about that tiny picture.
Here's a bigger one: (I think)
This was November 6th of that year and almost to Glencliff and the end of the whites.

DCP02140.jpg

[DSettahr]

Thanks. I took a look at your website, but couldn't really find any content- it looks like much of it is inaccessible at present?

Based on past hiking experience, I am pretty confident that I will be able to start out with a solid 18-20 mile per day pace through the (relatively) flatter Maine sections immediately. I agree that getting past the Whites expediently is a solid goal. Beyond that point, my only major concern is the Smokies (and perhaps the Mt. Rogers area).

I ordered the Barefoot Sisters book and am looking forward to reading it.

[DSettahr]

It is about 400 miles from Katahdin to the southern end of the Whites. If I can average 15 miles a day through that entire section, I should be able to be south of the whites in about 28 days. I'm not sure of my exact start date yet, but I figure it will be ASAP after Labor Day.

Past experience has shown that weather begins to change pretty quickly (and drastically) at higher elevations in the northeastern mountains post Columbus Day, which is 35 days after Labor Day in 2016. I think that setting the goal of exiting the Whites by Columbus Day is a reasonable one, as this doesn't force me to stick to an overly ambitious itinerary, and still gives me some wiggle room if I am forced to modify my itinerary due to foul weather in the Whites.

[bigcranky]

I can't help at all with the New England part, but the Smokies and Mt Rogers are local. You'd be arriving when, maybe late November? Early December? I'm trying to do the math at an 18-20mpd pace and failing We've done a fair amount of hiking in early winter in both places.

No problem - weather is usually decent with cold nights and cool days. Be prepared for mid teens at night and 30s to 50s during the day. The biggest issue is ice, not snow, especially early in the winter. The Smokies can have some snow, and it'll be colder at night, plus it'll be very windy in both places. Given how early winter storms go around here, I'd want to have some sort of traction device by early November -- we get a lot of freezing rain.

Sounds like you're pretty well set up for this hike. Good luck.

[illabelle]

I can't help at all with the New England part, but the Smokies and Mt Rogers are local. You'd be arriving when, maybe late November? Early December? I'm trying to do the math at an 18-20mpd pace and failing We've done a fair amount of hiking in early winter in both places.

No problem - weather is usually decent with cold nights and cool days. Be prepared for mid teens at night and 30s to 50s during the day. The biggest issue is ice, not snow, especially early in the winter. The Smokies can have some snow, and it'll be colder at night, plus it'll be very windy in both places. Given how early winter storms go around here, I'd want to have some sort of traction device by early November -- we get a lot of freezing rain.

Sounds like you're pretty well set up for this hike. Good luck.

What bigcranky describes is "typical" weather. Be prepared to bail off the trail for the unusual weather event. Hurricane/Superstorm Sandy went through the Smokies in late October, dumped record snowfall, and caught several southbound thru-hikers off guard. One was rescued by helicopter. Others bypassed the Park and came back later. Many had a very difficult time.

[rafe]

Everything about winter hiking is more difficult than summer. Day hikes or simple overnights are one thing, but long-distance treks in winter are something else again. Just finding the trail is a challenge.

Days are short, nights are long Pack weight is way up from where it might be in summer. You need snowshoes, crampons, probably an ice axe as well. Access roads will be snowed in, so resupply will be that much more difficult.

Yes of course you'll need to fly through Maine and New Hampshire but I wouldn't expect a picnic after that. In the Barefoot Sisters journal, the nastiest winter encounter is at Mt. Rogers in southern Virginia.

A fit, experienced and cocky young woman died trying to hike up and over Mt. Madison last winter. It was all over the news and heavily debated on all the New England hiking forums.

[Venchka]

rafe beat me to most of this, might not hurt to reiterate.
In addition to seasonal closure of many services near the trail, you may also find road closures preventing you from getting a shuttle or hitching into a town for resupply.
I have family living in Boone, NC, elevation ~3,400 feet. The tourist industry calls it the High Country for good reason. The higher ridges where the AT runs along the NC-TN border are almost twice as high as Boone at 6,000 feet +. My grandkids have had snow days as early as Halloween. Temperatures below ZERO° F are not uncommon in the High Country.
It will be an adventure. Ice. Snow. The collapse of the green tunnel blocking the trail. Blown down trees blocking the trail. Melting snow for water. Will a cat food stove melt snow? Will a propane canister stove melt snow reliably? White gas stoves will melt snow reliably. Short days. Long nights. Fun stuff.
Will customary lightweight gear work after September? In my personal opinion, the answer is, "NO!" A sub-one pound quilt, a backpack that won't handle 30+ pounds and a flimsy foam pad to sleep on could get you hurt. The so called "puffy" jackets that pass for cold weather insulation for 3 season use won't cut the mustard on a high windswept ridge in November & December.
Be prepared. Be safe. Have fun!

Wayne

[Slo-go'en]

It all depends on the weather. If it's a reasonably dry and warm fall, you have a chance. If it's not, good luck.

[rafe]

Tipi Walter is, at least on this site, the undisputed master of winter trekking and survival skills. Bag-nights, he calls 'em.

[DSettahr]

Yes- I'm pretty confident when I say that I don't think I have any misconceptions about the conditions I am likely to face. My previous achievements include successfully completing the Winter 46 in the Adirondacks (climbing all 46 peaks above 4,000 feet in elevation in winter), as well as section hiking the full length of the 122 mile Northville Placid Trail in the Adirondacks during winter. My experience (600+ nights in the backcountry in my life, averaging 60-70 nights a year) includes numerous winter overnights, with many trips in temperatures as low as -10 degrees overnight (and a few trips with temperatures reaching -20 and -30). I am fully aware of the subtleties of cold weather camping (canister stoves vs. white gas, melting snow for water, timing issues with day length, etc.) have not only done it myself many times, but also instructed others in those same subtleties online, as well as having worked as a wilderness trip leader guiding overnight trips in the backcountry in all 4 seasons in the northeast.

I understand that I haven't chosen the easiest itinerary, but I also think that my experience sets me up pretty well to at least give it a solid attempt. If I can move at a reasonably solid pace, which I am sure I can do, then barring any major calamities, I don't expect the trail to throw anything at me that I haven't experienced before. At the very, very least, I know that I can do it safely, and that I have the experience and knowledge to know when to call it quits if that becomes necessary.

[Venchka]

You should have started with your resume.
Go for it!

Wayne

[DSettahr]

But I do appreciate the words of caution- they mirror more or less exactly what I would tell someone else if I saw a post like this but was unfamiliar with the author's experience level.

[rafe]

OK, you have extensive winter backpacking experience, that's a good start. Now couple that with the requirement of a through-hike, which is to say, making considerable miles per day, long-term, and issues of resupply.

Days and nights on end. It's said that a thru-hike is just a long string of sections, but in winter you'll be working that much harder to reach town in between those sections -- and losing even more precious daylight in the process.

Theoretically you could stretch your hike for a year and do as little as six miles per day. But I assume you wish to move faster than that.

As Venchka points out -- trail conditions will be all over the map, and overgrown parts of the trail may become impassable after heavy snow or ice-rain. Tipi has lots of photos of that.

It gets really interesting when snow obscures the blazes.

[colorado_rob]

Not quite sure why folks confuse fall and late fall conditions with full on winter conditions. Excellent chance you'll have near perfect weather conditions for 80% of your hike. Sure, you could have heavy early snows and, well, oh well! If this happens you simply reevaluate. But fine chance this won't happen and it will only be towards the end of your hike that you will likely have to deal with a lot of snow. the comment below: "Everything about winter hiking is more difficult than summer" is just plain false, and even mostly not applicable because if you move out, very little of your hike will even be in "winter".


Sure, tons of snow slow you down, maybe even chase you off the trail, but think of all the advantages: Cooler weather means you can hike faster, zero bugs, less rain, no crowds (after leaf-peeping season) meaning wide open shelters. Once far south, even the bear "issues" go away.


My own personal multi-day pack only increase by about 4 pounds for late fall/early winter vs. summer. Basically a tougher tent (+1 pound), warmer bag (+1 pound) a heavier insulation layer (+ 1/2 pound), warmer pants (+ 1/2 pound) and better gloves and hat. Might need some microspikes for late in your hike too (another pound).


The big disadvantage of this will of course be your lack of good daylight, but you will still have tons at the start of your hike, and heading south, the shorter days later on will be less short being further south, if you follow. Go for it!!!! I'm thinking of something similar for a late SOBO PCT attempt next year.

Go for it! Exciting to hear about this alternate style thru attempt.

[DSettahr]

I've not done a thru hike of the likes of the AT specifically, but I do also have 6 seasons of experience as a backcountry ranger, often with only 1 or 2 chances to resupply each week over the course of a season. "Making considerable miles per day, long term" has been my modus operandi for the past few years.

My thru hike will begin right after a 7th season as a ranger, and so I expect to be in excellent hiking shape. Past experience has shown that I can typically set a steady 20 mile a day pace with a 40 pound pack over generally level terrain after a season of work in the backcountry. I do understand that food (carrying/eating enough calories) will be an issue at this level of exertion.

I also own mountaineering showshoes, crampons, and an ice ax, and have used them extensively. I also have extensive experience in route finding, including following trails obscured by heavy snow loads.

Granted, none of this experience is in winter in the south, but I still think I've got a pretty reasonable and realistic expectation of what I am getting myself into. Given my experience level and my willingness to spend the next year planning and preparing, I think I will be about as well prepared for an endeavor such as this as anyone possibly could be.

If need be, the extensive trail network Smokies in particular gives me the option of following a low-land alternate route that avoids the higher elevations along the ridge line through the park. I'm not all opposed to doing this if the conditions dictate.

Not quite sure why folks confuse fall and late fall conditions with full on winter conditions. Excellent chance you'll have near perfect weather conditions for 80% of your hike. Sure, you could have heavy early snows and, well, oh well! If this happens you simply reevaluate. But fine chance this won't happen and it will only be towards the end of your hike that you will likely have to deal with a lot of snow. the comment below: "Everything about winter hiking is more difficult than summer" is just plain false, and even mostly not applicable because if you move out, very little of your hike will even be in "winter".

I think the cautions are warranted- as I stated above, I would say similar things to someone if I wasn't familiar with their experience level. It is better to err on the side of caution in these instances.

I will say, though, that no matter how dire, every warning I've read about the Smokies in winter really doesn't sound as bad as the Adirondacks in winter. That's not to say that I am taking the prospect of winter conditions in the Smokies lightly- just that I do feel pretty confident that I will be as well prepared to face it as anyone possibly could be.

I am also considering the possibility of bribing a friend to do the Smokies with me so that I at least wouldn't be solo for that section.

[rhjanes]

the Barefoot Sisters (IIRC), hit a blizzard in the Smokys. Their write up on that.....well......after the fact they realized how life-threating it really was. Their planned Yo-Yo, then was changed to stay around Atlanta and not start northbound until weather improved.