To be clear it is 1 inch pipe about 2 inch long.
How do you edit posts on here now?
As far as the name, I did some googling to try to find the origin and came to the same conclusion as Kaptainkriz did for his video: Skilman Bear Hitch
As for stick or pipe, or even a 2" piece of bamboo chop stick for the stopper stick... makes no difference. I never not been able to find a stick.
Things that DO make a difference are the actual line, which needs to be very slick; the pulley bits, which need to be very smooth and have a much larger radius than a mini-carabiner (the Antal rings are utterly perfect for this application); and a lot of friction in the webbing or cord that goes over the tree branch.
The Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter ~ Cam "Swami" Honan of OZ
Become a donating member and you’ll be able to edit your posts.Originally Posted by English Stu
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Some very ingenious methods here. Too bad the bears in California know the weaknesses.
Yes, no sort of hang will work where bears have learned to climb out onto the branch and attack the line from the top.
Other problems are 1) mice that have learned how to shimmy down the line; 2) flying squirrels; and 3) pine martens. Surely there are more.
Once had a hang in the Adirondacks that was over 10 ft high and at least 8 feet away from the tree trunk and a pine marten still managed to get to it. In Algonquin Provincial Park in Canada we had flying squirrels do major damage to a hang done with a pulley system.
The Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter ~ Cam "Swami" Honan of OZ
Ursack to the rescue. For protection against sharp tooth critters, get the Ursack Minor. For protection from bears go with the AllWhite. For total protection they offer the AllMitey which combines the Minor laminated to the inside an AllWhite. I have had an AllMitey since they first offered it and have not had any problems.
Blackheart
If I hiked a lot in areas where this was a regular problem, I would definitely get one of these.
Adirondacks eastern High Peaks requires bear canisters already for 3-season. The pine marten incident occurred during winter (when bear cans are not required) in the Bushnell Falls area.
The Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter ~ Cam "Swami" Honan of OZ
Ok, I got the antal rings and was playing around a bit more with the system. I can say that the antal rings are definitely smoother and have much less friction than minibiners. I dislike the cost but they are an improvement. Only way to make them better (besides cost), would be if they had a hinge like a 'biner so I didn't have to feed the end of the rope through both rings.
Anyway, I did some experimenting. 14" of aquarium tubing weighs the same as 1" webbing with seam grip on it (.2oz), but....the strap worked quite a bit better for me.
So, tubing: If I used 2 'biners, it would start slipping immediately...it just wouldn't stay up in the branch. With antal rings...it was 50/50. It would mostly stay in place as long as I was slow and steady with pulling. But...with the webbing, it would stay in place with either 'biners or the rings.
Also....until I use the strap a lot out in the field, I won't be doing the PCT style system until I'm absolutely not worried about the strap slipping out of the branch. (see my previous posts about potentially getting food stuck in the tree). So, if I'm not doing the PCT style....you can actually tie your antal ring onto the strap with 4-6' of cord instead. The bag is supposed to hang that much down from the tree branch anyway, so there is no point in having the ring right by the branch (in the PCT style you do b/c you want to haul the bag as close to the branch as possible and then it gets lowered when you raise the stick to the ring).
This way...you gain 4-6' of rope since you are not doubling that length of rope through the pulley system. Here is a pic ....the bright green is the cord that is tied to the strap and the antal ring at the end. And..both rings "touch" each other when the bag is hauled all the way up. The haul rope is then just tied above your head to a different tree.
Now...its possible to pull the bag away from a tree using the PCT system but it requires a different modification (or a second rope)...there is a video somewhere on youtube about that.
Anyway...now I'm wondering what the absolute best rope to use is now that you are not worried about the rope digging in to the branch...or...rope withstanding the abrasion against the branch.
I would assume the thinnest line possible would create the least amount of friction....am I right in that? Even if I'm right....I'm not sure I would go less than 2mm line. Even with the pulley advantage, hauling up 25lbs of food could really dig into your hands with 1.2mm zpacks zline. I could always use a stick though and use that to haul it up.
So...I'm mainly looking at Zpacks zline slick cord....which is "solid braided 100% UHMWPE fiber with no sheathe". Vs...Lawson Ultraglide bear line, which is Spectra S1000. No idea which one is better. I also don't want the line to tangle easy. Really...3 options:
1. Zpacks 1.2mm zline: .65oz (lightest), thinnest (less friction?), hurts (have to use stick for heavy loads), most likely most tangle prone
2. Zpacks 2mm zline: 1.7oz
3. Lawson 2mm ultraglide: 1.7oz
Between #2 and #3....not sure which one is more slippery, ...and...less tangle prone.
Why can't you just tie a rock on the end of a rope and throw it over a branch? I do it all the time....
Let's head for the roundhouse; they can't corner us there!
A couple of thoughts:
1) If you want to use those little antol rings because they are smooth, but you want the convenience of a carabiner gate, you might be able to slip the antol ring onto a mini biner and use it like a mini pulley system kinda like this?
carabiner pulley.jpg
2) Earlier someone commented about these systems being defeated by bears climbing out on the limb. In the end, no system, not even bear canisters are perfect. They have all been defeated at one time or another due either to creative animals or incompetent users. All these methods are there to significantly reduce the risk. And, if that risk is bears climbing out on limbs, make sure to hoist the bag onto a limb that is too small for a bear to climb out on.
I'm not lost. I'm exploring.
Yeah, that's what I used to do too. Its just that either ->
1. Half the time, the rock would fly off the rope (come loose from the knot). I used to do the "sling" method of swinging around the rock/rope and letting go, which increased the problem of this. Now I just toss like a baseball which works better. Anyway, I was getting sick of retying the rope to a rock.
2. The end of the rope would get damaged badly. I'm in Idaho..and the mountains are here are rocky. Half the ground is exposed/sharp rock...so the force of the rock hitting the ground would really mess up the rope. Like in this pic...I had already cut off 1-2' of rope and just doing it a few more times got me this ->
One of the best features of this new bear bagging system is that very little abrasion happens to the rope...so my bear bagging rope will stay in much better condition for longer.
I like the way that you are thinking...but...I think metal on metal would add much more friction.1) If you want to use those little antol rings because they are smooth, but you want the convenience of a carabiner gate, you might be able to slip the antol ring onto a mini biner and use it like a mini pulley system kinda like this?
Yeah...and the inverse is true too. It can't be too small that the bear can just break the branch at the trunk.make sure to hoist the bag onto a limb that is too small for a bear to climb out on.
Actually, I doubt that. And, if the friction of the metal on metal is more than the friction of the rope over the pulley, the rope will just slide on the pulley with about the same friction it did using the ring the other way. And, a little metal on metal friction (generally quite low already) can be substantially reduced with a little chap stick.
The bigger problem potential I see is the rope slipping out of the pulley groove and off the pulley since the pulley will probably rock on the rocking carabiner and there isn't a retainer to hold the rope and pulley in place. But then, only playing and experimenting will give us a real answer. I'm still lazy enough that I am just using carabiners and accepting the little extra friction and working with it. Carabiners combined with the strap with Shoe Gu on it works adequately for me at this point.
I'm not lost. I'm exploring.
Two points:
1) Works fine with 2 Antal rings and no carabiners — why add complexity and weight? Threading the line thru the food bag Antal and the Antal on the webbing is no biggie once you do a couple of hangs and it becomes second nature.
2) Don't use the Shoe Goo as I did above. Why? Within the last few days I used my setup on a 2-night trip with friends around the Old Loggers Path in PA and it was wet... drizzle and mist only, thankfully, but wet all the same. The water got under the Shoe Goo and it started to peel away from the webbing. So try the Seam Grip mentioned above, or some Freesole, or something else that dries slowly and gets absorbed into the fibers.
Last edited by cmoulder; 10-16-2017 at 11:37.
The Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter ~ Cam "Swami" Honan of OZ
I understand what you are saying. Ursack has gotten certified and is working with the various governmental agencies (Red Tape) so they can be used in place of a canister.
Blackheart
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