New safer & easier bear-bag hanging method

[cmoulder]

To update this thread, I recently tried an easy modification that worked to keep the top webbing in place on the tree branch. Here is a photo of my version of this setup with 7mm Antal rings as suggested by Kaptainkriz — they work extremely well and are simple and lightweight.

bear bag line with Antals and Strap_MEDIUM.jpg

The only problem is that there wasn't enough friction between the webbing and tree branch, and no matter how delicately the food bags were hoisted the webbing slipped off the branch. The simple modification was to put some blobs of Shoe Goo on the webbing, on both sides, to add a little friction to the system.

bear bag line shoo goo.jpg

After taking this photo, I decided to add more blobs in between these, so that they ended up about 1" apart.

Two friends and I used this recently on the Grafton Loop Trail in Maine (at the campsites that did not have bear boxes) and it worked extremely well. One night we just tied the cord off to a tree and one night we used the 'stick-on-a-clove-hitch' for the modified PCT hang. This system really is superb for heavy hangs!

[Kaptainkriz]

I like the goo idea. I'm still using a piece of sticky fish tank tube on mine.

To update this thread, I recently tried an easy modification that worked to keep the top webbing in place on the tree branch. Here is a photo of my version of this setup with 7mm Antal rings as suggested by Kaptainkriz — they work extremely well and are simple and lightweight.

The only problem is that there wasn't enough friction between the webbing and tree branch, and no matter how delicately the food bags were hoisted the webbing slipped off the branch. The simple modification was to put some blobs of Shoe Goo on the webbing, on both sides, to add a little friction to the system.

After taking this photo, I decided to add more blobs in between these, so that they ended up about 1" apart.

Two friends and I used this recently on the Grafton Loop Trail in Maine (at the campsites that did not have bear boxes) and it worked extremely well. One night we just tied the cord off to a tree and one night we used the 'stick-on-a-clove-hitch' for the modified PCT hang. This system really is superb for heavy hangs!

[dgoggins]

So, after practicing a fair bit on this method at home, and thinking I had it down, I had quite a bit of trouble out in the field on the first night of a 3 night trip. I had made a webbing strip, but like in my post above, I was worried about it slipping so I did the 2 string method.

The problem I was having....was tangling. Mainly with my thinner "leading line" ....it would tangle with itself or ...it would get twisted with the other lines. And, it was hard in dying light to keep track of all the lines. At any given point there are like...4-5 lines going up to the branch that you have to manage.

I eventually ended up getting 12' or so of leading line and a carabiner stuck up in the branch...due to a big tangle of my leading line. I think if I used zpacks 1.2mm slick line for my leading it wouldn't have happened, but, I assume I still would have gotten lines twisting together. That night I eventually just did the same as my hiking partner. He just threw a single line, tied it to his food sack, lifted the sack high above his head, and then walked the pull line out and away from the branch at an angle to hoist the rest of the couple of feet, and tied to a tree. We weren't in sensitive bear protection areas so I wasn't too worried about it. The simplicity and ease of it...was..hard to beat.

But I am willing to try again. A few questions:
1. Are you just using standard smooth silicone fish tubing? Did you cut it or...just tie your guyline to it? Could you upload a pic?
2. On my setup, I was just using 2 standard carabiners...like the zpacks mini carabiners -> http://zpacks.com/accessories/carabiner.shtml
Now, both carabiners are completely rounded (they are tubes), so I assumed that they would have similar friction compared to the 7mm antal rings. How wrong am I on that?
3. @cmoulder Where did you get your two rings? I'm trying to find the cheapest way of getting 2 to try out....most places after shipping they are coming to $32-$35.

I may just go back to a webbing form instead of using 2 ropes. If I do the non PCT method and just tie the haul loop to a different tree, then I wouldn't have to worry about the webbing slipping when retrieving the food bag...would require a bit longer rope though.

I did learn...that I do like using a rock bag instead of wrapping/tying a rope to a rock. I had a zpacks rock bag that I have never used...and, I'm glad I haven't yet. I made a Tyvek bag and ...it would basically get a tear in it with each throw when it hit the ground. I would hate to do that to anything cuben. Tyvek is super easy to make stuff sacks out of. Here I even sewed a drawstring channel, though next time I would just "tape" one together. And, when it tears due to the bag hitting the ground, just put another piece of Tyvek tape on it.

[cmoulder]

7mm Antal rings

They ain't cheep! Maybe you can google around and do better. I searched a fair bit and with shipping they were all similar... right in the range you mentioned. However I believe these are FAR superior to mini-biners and you only gotta buy 'em once!

The line I use is Lawson's Ultraglide bear line.

I also noticed a tendency for the line to get twisted around itself. However with the slick line it slid past itself even with 5-6 wraps without the friction between the lines overcoming that of the friction between web and branch. I tested this specifically but even so it is still going to be highly subjective depending upon the branch diameter, tree species, etc. In both cases when we used it the trees were beech and the branches were about 3-4" in diameter. YMMV

The most we hoisted was about 12 lbs or so and this setup made it pretty easy... would've been very difficult with a single line of 1.8-2mm of anything else.

[Kaptainkriz]

Standard vinyl fish tank tube with the line threaded through it. I'm using a small knot to keep it from sliding down. 2nd pic in this post: https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthr...=1#post2038067

1. Are you just using standard smooth silicone fish tubing? Did you cut it or...just tie your guyline to it? Could you upload a pic?

[dgoggins]

I saw that picture before....I didn't notice the tubing (it is clear after all). Thanks for that.

Hmm, there are several sellers that will provide free shipping for $50...otherwise its $10 or more. Would anybody be interested if I did a group buy and then send them to you for $2 shipping instead?

[cmoulder]

I don't need 'em now, otherwise I'd jump on that group buy!

Probably sounds kinda ridiculous to the 'uninitiated' that a bear bag setup can cost around $50. But for those who have grappled with the problem it is money well spent.

The next logical step is to look for a cheaper alternative (that is light and works just as well!) to the Antal rings, although they're gonna be hard to beat.

[dgoggins]

Edit: Nevermind..it only saved 2-3 bucks to do a group buy so just bought separately.

[saltysack]

So, after practicing a fair bit on this method at home, and thinking I had it down, I had quite a bit of trouble out in the field on the first night of a 3 night trip. I had made a webbing strip, but like in my post above, I was worried about it slipping so I did the 2 string method.

The problem I was having....was tangling. Mainly with my thinner "leading line" ....it would tangle with itself or ...it would get twisted with the other lines. And, it was hard in dying light to keep track of all the lines. At any given point there are like...4-5 lines going up to the branch that you have to manage.

I eventually ended up getting 12' or so of leading line and a carabiner stuck up in the branch...due to a big tangle of my leading line. I think if I used zpacks 1.2mm slick line for my leading it wouldn't have happened, but, I assume I still would have gotten lines twisting together. That night I eventually just did the same as my hiking partner. He just threw a single line, tied it to his food sack, lifted the sack high above his head, and then walked the pull line out and away from the branch at an angle to hoist the rest of the couple of feet, and tied to a tree. We weren't in sensitive bear protection areas so I wasn't too worried about it. The simplicity and ease of it...was..hard to beat.

But I am willing to try again. A few questions:
1. Are you just using standard smooth silicone fish tubing? Did you cut it or...just tie your guyline to it? Could you upload a pic?
2. On my setup, I was just using 2 standard carabiners...like the zpacks mini carabiners -> http://zpacks.com/accessories/carabiner.shtml
Now, both carabiners are completely rounded (they are tubes), so I assumed that they would have similar friction compared to the 7mm antal rings. How wrong am I on that?
3. @cmoulder Where did you get your two rings? I'm trying to find the cheapest way of getting 2 to try out....most places after shipping they are coming to $32-$35.

I may just go back to a webbing form instead of using 2 ropes. If I do the non PCT method and just tie the haul loop to a different tree, then I wouldn't have to worry about the webbing slipping when retrieving the food bag...would require a bit longer rope though.

I did learn...that I do like using a rock bag instead of wrapping/tying a rope to a rock. I had a zpacks rock bag that I have never used...and, I'm glad I haven't yet. I made a Tyvek bag and ...it would basically get a tear in it with each throw when it hit the ground. I would hate to do that to anything cuben. Tyvek is super easy to make stuff sacks out of. Here I even sewed a drawstring channel, though next time I would just "tape" one together. And, when it tears due to the bag hitting the ground, just put another piece of Tyvek tape on it.

Simply use one of your 20oz Gatorade bottles with lil water...works fine..no need for a rock bag..


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[Venchka]

Oh great. Now I have to add a 20 oz Gatorade bottle to all the other stuff I'm carrying.
Forget about keeping the food away from the bears. Make sure you are sleeping behind a moose proof barrier of trees and boulders.
Wayne


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[dgoggins]

I've heard that idea before to throw water bottles instead of rocks. But...it just seems to me that a water bottle is more likely to get hung up in the tree. Plus, around here half of the ground is exposed rock, so the bottle is going to get busted up quick. But.....I still might try it.

[Venchka]

A quick easy and secure method for attaching the line to a bottle would be greatly appreciated.
Wayne


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[saltysack]

Oh great. Now I have to add a 20 oz Gatorade bottle to all the other stuff I'm carrying.
Forget about keeping the food away from the bears. Make sure you are sleeping behind a moose proof barrier of trees and boulders.
Wayne


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I carry 2 of the 20oz on shoulder straps, easier to fill w Gatorade powder and my morning concoction...not carrying anything extra.


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[RangerZ]

So, after practicing a fair bit on this method at home, and thinking I had it down, I had quite a bit of trouble out in the field on the first night of a 3 night trip. I had made a webbing strip, but like in my post above, I was worried about it slipping so I did the 2 string method.

The problem I was having....was tangling. Mainly with my thinner "leading line" ....it would tangle with itself or ...it would get twisted with the other lines. And, it was hard in dying light to keep track of all the lines. At any given point there are like...4-5 lines going up to the branch that you have to manage.

I eventually ended up getting 12' or so of leading line and a carabiner stuck up in the branch...due to a big tangle of my leading line. I think if I used zpacks 1.2mm slick line for my leading it wouldn't have happened, but, I assume I still would have gotten lines twisting together. That night I eventually just did the same as my hiking partner. He just threw a single line, tied it to his food sack, lifted the sack high above his head, and then walked the pull line out and away from the branch at an angle to hoist the rest of the couple of feet, and tied to a tree. We weren't in sensitive bear protection areas so I wasn't too worried about it. The simplicity and ease of it...was..hard to beat.

But I am willing to try again. A few questions:
1. Are you just using standard smooth silicone fish tubing? Did you cut it or...just tie your guyline to it? Could you upload a pic?
2. On my setup, I was just using 2 standard carabiners...like the zpacks mini carabiners -> http://zpacks.com/accessories/carabiner.shtml
Now, both carabiners are completely rounded (they are tubes), so I assumed that they would have similar friction compared to the 7mm antal rings. How wrong am I on that?
3. @cmoulder Where did you get your two rings? I'm trying to find the cheapest way of getting 2 to try out....most places after shipping they are coming to $32-$35.

I may just go back to a webbing form instead of using 2 ropes. If I do the non PCT method and just tie the haul loop to a different tree, then I wouldn't have to worry about the webbing slipping when retrieving the food bag...would require a bit longer rope though.

I did learn...that I do like using a rock bag instead of wrapping/tying a rope to a rock. I had a zpacks rock bag that I have never used...and, I'm glad I haven't yet. I made a Tyvek bag and ...it would basically get a tear in it with each throw when it hit the ground. I would hate to do that to anything cuben. Tyvek is super easy to make stuff sacks out of. Here I even sewed a drawstring channel, though next time I would just "tape" one together. And, when it tears due to the bag hitting the ground, just put another piece of Tyvek tape on it.

I use a mesh bag that garlic comes in. I just fold the open edge over to reinforce it and thread light cord thru the mesh as a draw string. The mesh is pretty small and it's never snagged on anything. It's also a good visibility red which makes it easier to find when I finally hang my food I've also put reflective tape on the carabiner to help find it.

My 50' of line and carabiner fit inside for storage. The mesh bag could be used as a scrubby also.

[Venchka]

I carry 2 of the 20oz on shoulder straps, easier to fill w Gatorade powder and my morning concoction...not carrying anything extra.


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I don't do Gatorade. I don't do bottles on shoulder straps.
One size doesn't fit everyone.
I had an 8 oz. Ozarka bottle that worked well. I can't find it. Need a new one.
Wayne


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[dgoggins]

A quick easy and secure method for attaching the line to a bottle would be greatly appreciated.
Wayne

No problem...the easiest would be to use a larks head knot ->
http://www.kittyhawk.com/skilled-adv...rks-head-knot/

Where the toggle in that example would be the water bottle's "head". Usually I tie a bowline at the end of my line, and then push a bend through the loop as the "larks head", but in that example...they just make a non tied loop at the end of the line which....is pretty slick. I just learned I could do that. Its great to keep learning!

[saltysack]

No problem...the easiest would be to use a larks head knot ->
http://www.kittyhawk.com/skilled-adv...rks-head-knot/

Where the toggle in that example would be the water bottle's "head". Usually I tie a bowline at the end of my line, and then push a bend through the loop as the "larks head", but in that example...they just make a non tied loop at the end of the line which....is pretty slick. I just learned I could do that. Its great to keep learning!

+1...already have a bowline at lines end for carabiner and food bag....simple....


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[dgoggins]

Ok...I tried out the larkshead where you don't tie a knot at the end, and....don't recommend it. It will slip easily. Just tie a loop and then pass a bend through it.

[Venchka]

Thanks!
Wayne


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[English Stu]

Seems a fair system so I intend to practice it.
Anyone recall this system and what it is called. I have knowledge from YouTube, which I cannot now find now, of a modified PCT method in which you carry something like a 2 inch piece of plastic plumbing pipe with two opposite holes in it which the cord passes through and when at the correct height you tie off like you do the twig. A suitable twig, like a suitable stone to throw, is often never close by.