New safer & easier bear-bag hanging method

[texasmufflerman]

"Eliminate the webbing" would be ideal hence my suggestion of using hollow cord as a sheath.

I presume the sheath would be used on the standard PCT method rather than with The Puzzler’s Tree-safe Bear-bag Hang, right?

[Cuacoatchoo]

Feels like we're overdesigning a simple system.

Hammocks support ~180 lbs compared to 10 lbs.
Hammocks go around the lower trunk of the tree. A critical artery of the plants circulatory system. The capillaries around the outside of the trunk are the most important. Up High the new growth branches are likely to be less dependent on the their outer ring of capillaries, as well as not affect the overall tree if they loose capillaries.

Also, personal opinion, the branches you selected in these photos are too big for bear bags. A cub could easily monkey his way out to it. I'd personally go smaller branches farther from the trunk. Of course I live in the land of Oaks and dogwoods so we have plenty of branches.

[Kaptainkriz]

i'm liking that line....gotta get some and play with it! I'm thinking of splicing it to an Antal ring:
http://www.apsltd.com/antal-7mm-low-friction-ring.html

Here is the Zing-It:
http://www.samsonrope.com/Pages/Prod...?ProductID=811
http://www.reddenmarine.com/samson-rope-zing-it.html

[Kaptainkriz]

Bummer, website says not splicable. Guess a knot will have to do.

i'm liking that line....gotta get some and play with it! I'm thinking of splicing it to an Antal ring:
http://www.apsltd.com/antal-7mm-low-friction-ring.html

[texasmufflerman]

Bummer, website says not splicable. Guess a knot will have to do.

I have seen some folks talking about splicing the zing-it and lash-it, but I wonder how well it holds with the samthane coating. It will be something that you may have to try and see. I plan on purchasing some soon and i will be playing with it as well.

Here are some other throw lines that I found, most are coated. I can't tell if any of them are not.
http://www.wesspur.com/throw-line/zi...hrow-line.html

[texasmufflerman]

Feels like we're overdesigning a simple system.

Hammocks support ~180 lbs compared to 10 lbs.
Hammocks go around the lower trunk of the tree. A critical artery of the plants circulatory system. The capillaries around the outside of the trunk are the most important. Up High the new growth branches are likely to be less dependent on the their outer ring of capillaries, as well as not affect the overall tree if they loose capillaries.

Also, personal opinion, the branches you selected in these photos are too big for bear bags. A cub could easily monkey his way out to it. I'd personally go smaller branches farther from the trunk. Of course I live in the land of Oaks and dogwoods so we have plenty of branches.

Unlike the hammock application, is not simply the weight of the bear bag that is a concern, it is the friction of dragging 20 feet of loaded cord across the tree branch. you['d be surprised what friction can do. I pull audio, video, and data cabling as part of my job. If I drag a cable across another cable for 20 feet, it doesn't take much to burn through the jacket of the cable that is being pulled against.

[Heliotrope]

Looking forward to trying this method!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kaptainkriz]

I ordered some 1.75mm Yale Ultrex 12 and a pair of Antal 7mm rings to splice up. I'll post some photos after I finish it.

I have seen some folks talking about splicing the zing-it and lash-it, but I wonder how well it holds with the samthane coating. It will be something that you may have to try and see. I plan on purchasing some soon and i will be playing with it as well.

Here are some other throw lines that I found, most are coated. I can't tell if any of them are not.
http://www.wesspur.com/throw-line/zi...hrow-line.html

[texasmufflerman]

"Eliminate the webbing" would be ideal hence my suggestion of using hollow cord as a sheath.

New idea, a foot of surgical tubing!

[texasmufflerman]

I ordered some 1.75mm Yale Ultrex 12 and a pair of Antal 7mm rings to splice up. I'll post some photos after I finish it.

Where did you get the Yale Ultrex and how did you come to that decision? Looking forward to seeing your results.

[Kaptainkriz]

Ultrex was at Annapolis Performance Sailing, I buy a lot of sailboat gear from them, I sail/race on the Chesapeake Bay. It's a 12 strand, so it's splicable...I'll find out how easy when it arrives, I've never done 1.75 before. It's 50g/100', a little lighter than the Samson zing-it. Normally .37 a foot, they are running their 25% off winter rigging sale.

Where did you get the Yale Ultrex and how did you come to that decision? Looking forward to seeing your results.

[Kaptainkriz]

Surgical tubing may be a good idea. I tried this with naked line and with a few knots. It's tricky to get the top part to stay up on the branch when you pull it up. I ended up using a piece of soft tubing I had laying around just to prototype...it worked well enough to see that with 2:1 you can get a higher hang than with the straight PCT method and can lift heavier objects more easily. There is a risk if you have a 'senior' moment and rig it incorrectly, you will permanently affix one end out of reach in the tree!! (don't ask me how I discovered this... ). The Yale Ultrex 12 (1.75mm SK-75) is easy to splice using standard 12 strand methods. I used brummel lock loops on each end and loped around the Antal rings. The Antal rings are rated to 1700lbs SWL and the Ultrex is rated at 800lbs break. 80' of line, brummels on each end, a pair of 7mm Antal rings, and a slice of the line taken for a continuous loop shackle was only 45g. That's about half the weight of 50' of 550 paracord I was using. I used a folded guitar 'e' string as a fid for splicing small line.
IMG_0265.JPGIMG_0266.JPG

New idea, a foot of surgical tubing!

[squeezebox]

I'm interested but I'm sorry I still can't figure it out. It doesn't look that difficult Any chance someone could do a youtube on this?

[Kaptainkriz]

I'm clearly not a good instructor and the video has a lot to be desired. It does show the basics of the method and maybe some potential issues.
The picture posted earlier does a good job showing how to do it: http://www.downworks.com/downworks/Bear_Hitch.html

[texasmufflerman]

Good stuff, Kaptainkriz. Thanks for sharing. About spliceability, are 8 strand typically not spliceable or is it something else?

[jbix1958]

Try rappel rings - half the price of the Antal and rope glides through easily.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BS4FEO8/ref=s9_hps_bw_g200_i2

[Hangfire]

Cool, I like it.

[Kaptainkriz]

Oo, I seem to have missed the activity in the thread!
@texasmufflerman, 12 strand splices with known methods and little loss of strength. I've never tried to splice 8 strand before. If it is a hollow braid, it might splice but not sure how well it holds.
@jbix1958, I've not seen those before, they look cool! A feature of the Antal, though not used here, is it has two bearing surfaces (around the perimiter and through the center) which can be used creatively.

[Kaptainkriz]

I still like them and think they are cool, but they do weigh 10x what the Antals do for gram weenies that are counting.

Try rappel rings - half the price of the Antal and rope glides through easily.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BS4FEO8/ref=s9_hps_bw_g200_i2

[dgoggins]

So....I've been playing around with this system....and learning some of the pitfalls. One pitfall not mentioned...is that if you are using the webbing and a PCT style system, it is possible to get your food stuck in the tree. Fortunately I was practicing at home and quickly saw the danger.

In the morning....when going to retrieve the food bag, you start pulling down on your haul rope so you can bring the jam stick to you. However....if at this time the webbing slips off the tree...it will start traveling down towards the food bag. When that top carabiner moves down....the jam stick "height" moves up. So...if the night before you had already put the jamstick high above your head and did the clove hitch, you can get to a point where you can't reach your jam stick.

Worst case scenario....the top carabiner/webbing moves all the way down to the carabiner at the food bag...at this point, the jam stick is also right at the food bag, and...you can't pull down on the rope at all. True, the food bag is now lower, but still out of reach most likely. By my calculations...which I could be wrong...if the food bag was 6' down from the tree branch, it would now be 9'....but...could still be out of your reach.

That is why....I think the second rope vs the webbing is a much better idea. There is a good diagram of it here ->
http://www.trailspace.com/forums/bac...cs/117048.html

First....if you do forget to attach the thin rope (which is attached to the top carabiner) to a branch or the tree trunk (so the top carabiner doesn't move), the top carabiner will move down. However...unlike the webbing...you could just pull it back into place. You are not pulling the weight of the food bag up....you are just pulling enough to overcome the friction of the system (friction of tree branch and rope passing through 2 carabiners). You can use a really thin rope.... .5oz for 50'....and you don't even need 50'. 40' should be more than plenty. Also....its more multi use over webbing....you can use it during the day for something else...or....do a different hang with it. (like...do a normal PCT hang and then use this rope to pull the bag away from the tree). Or there are plenty of other hang types that use 2 ropes. Or....its a backup rope. If one of your ropes break, you could still do a normal PCT hang with the other. The webbing would only be 1 use.