Have thru hikers become standoffish?

[George]

I think if you ran into a lone hiker, on the CDT, outside of town, they would likely be starving for human contact

the three hikers together apparently preferred to associate within the group of similar recent experience - not surprising in any place or time

[fiddlehead]

IMO people who are very sociable hike the AT.
Of, the PCT if they are from out west.
But, the CDT is more for loners.
It is my favorite.
I couldn't imagine hiking the AT NOBO with the numbers I hear about anymore.

Even the CDT is perhaps getting too crowded.
I prefer alone time or with one or 2 others.

Thats me anyway.
I really enjoy the designing of my own trail, or getting off trail more than any other kind of hiking.
The CDT is a good place for that because there is so much info on resupply, water sources etc.
But, get me off trail, in the Bitteroots, or jungles, or above treeline almost anywhere in CO, man, I'm in heaven.
Don't need to talk a lot when I get to town either.
Maybe some.

[Tipi Walter]

I rarely spend any time anymore on the AT as it's swarmed by too many people and by a select group of elite thruhikers who after 3 months on the trail feel they are Trail Gurus and Will Now Take Your Questions. I call it Holding Court and they do this at the end of every day at the trail shelters.

I explained it better in my trail journal when I did a trip to Mt Rogers in 2011 and spent too much time on the AT---

SHELTER CULTURE
Well, I left my camp and passed the Thomas Knob shelter thirty minutes later and climbed a hill and turned around to rest and what do I see in the distance but the guy and his friend bushwacking back up the mountain towards the AT and a bit north of the box. Oops, guess they couldn't find the horse trail. Why do I harp on this? Because the day before during my short visit to the carport shelter, the man was holding court about all things trail and all things backpacking, and then he said these magic words: "I never camped in the snow." So much for fielding questions to the tanned pope of all things ruck.


The AT generally suffers from this "holding court" hysteria. Why? Because people out backpacking for a week or a month or two on the AT become inflamed and infected with the notion that they've stepped from newbie to expert in the space of a few months, and yet many of them have never snow camped. It's easy for these long trail types to don the garb of cool trail weariness whereby they sit at the shelter picnic table-podiums and show just the right amount of trail jadedness and just the right amount of fellow thruhiker tolerance but show absolutely no degree of inquisitiveness or humility. They want instant authority and think nonstop backpacking for half a year appoints them guru status---some even write books about their treks.


In fact, five months backpacking is just that, and is not forty years, but don't try to tell this to the James Dean-affected weariness of the low weight spark of the vibram-heeled boys. You can always tell the experience and expertise of a backpacker by how many questions he or she asks you, and ya won't find no questions asked on the AT in Virginia. I guess by the time they make it here from Georgia they have it all figured out.

[Wülfgang]

^Tipi and others I think it's a generational thing.

I cant speak for the AT but here in CO probably 70% of hikers I meet are friendly. Many will stop and chat about great it is to be outside, how out of shape they are, etc.

I do notice the "older" hikers (say 40+) are usually more friendly. The under-30 crowd seems to be unaware of any existence not in their immediate social bubble. Solipsism, it's called. And this extends to city life as well. When is the last time you saw a young female not looking at her smartphone or saying "ew" about anything and everything that ruffles her comfort zone??

I don't know if it's really an issue or if everyone says these things about the younger generations as they get older. It's a shame though. Part of the appeal of the AT is the social experience but it just doesn't sound like there is much trail camaraderie anymore.

[Another Kevin]

I rarely spend any time anymore on the AT as it's swarmed by too many people and by a select group of elite thruhikers who after 3 months on the trail feel they are Trail Gurus and Will Now Take Your Questions. I call it Holding Court and they do this at the end of every day at the trail shelters.

I don't hike the A-T very much at the moment, because there are very nice lesser trails that are closer to me. On them, I often enough seem to be called upon to Hold Court. An example: I'm on the second day of a three-day loop, and the trail takes me through a state campground. I'm never one to pass up a chance at modern plumbing, so I avail myself of the opportunity to poop, shower and tank up with well water. As I'm traversing the campground, someone pulls up and says, "Hey, do you know where site #27 is?"

"Sorry, I'm not staying here. I'm just passing through on a backpacking trip."

Kids in the back of the van start asking questions, beginning with "Really? Where are you staying?"

"Wherever I can find a big enough flat spot to pitch my tent."

People on the porch of the bath-house overhear, and start in with Hiker Twenty Questions: "Really? You walked here all the way from .... ?"

"Well, yeah. It's not that far, only 15 miles and I started yesterday."

And Hiker Twenty Questions follows. Sure, the questions are ones I've heard hundreds of times. Answering them in good humour is part of being a good ambassador for the trail.

"Yes, I sleep in the woods." "Yes, I've seen bears. Never for long enough to get my camera out, more's the pity!" "I have dried food in my pack. I'm thinking about mango chicken curry tonight, I'm rather fond of that one." "I very seldom make a fire, at least in warm weather. I cook on a little alcohol burner that I made from a soda can." "Same as you. I stop off in a town and go to the store." "Oh, there must be a million places I can do that. I try to hold it long enough to dig a hole." "Too heavy! It's not all that bad at the moment, I have only two days of food in there. Want to pick it up and feel for yourself?" "When it rains, I get wet. I have dry stuff to change into for sleeping."

And eventually it usually ends with, "Well, I really need to move along. I'm trying to get to ..... in time to make camp by sundown."

It appears to be entertaining to the campers, and sometimes gets the little ones thinking, "someday I'd like to do that." I think it's a Good Thing overall.

But that's probably not what you were talking about.

And by the way, if we ever share a fire, I have about a zillion questions to ask you. I guess that shows my expertise level is "clueless weekender."

[rickb]

One thing I can say with great authority is telling thru hikers at a shelter you hiked the trail 30+ years ago is not a good conversation starter.

Which is just fine.

Like so many 50-somethings we can always come home to Whiteblaze and delude ourselves into thinking someone is listening to us.

It pretty sad when you post from the Trail, though.

[Tipi Walter]

To Another Kevin: I would probably stop their questions for a moment or two and ask my own: "Do you guys use a loud generator when you car camp? How can you stand the noise?"

Or: "Why do guys driving 40 foot RVs into campgrounds call what they do "Camping"?

Etc you get the idea.

[Wyoming]

Nobody has mentioned yet the first thing that popped into my head when I read the OP.

They didn't talk to you because to a thru hiker....YOU SMELLED FUNNY!

[sbhikes]

I really enjoy the designing of my own trail, or getting off trail more than any other kind of hiking.
The CDT is a good place for that because there is so much info on resupply, water sources etc.
But, get me off trail, in the Bitteroots, or jungles, or above treeline almost anywhere in CO, man, I'm in heaven.

You might like the Condor Trail. The first person to ever thru-hike it did so this spring. It's a very difficult trail, much of it is an adventure in route-finding on unmaintained trail. Bring loppers and a saw.

[Another Kevin]

To Another Kevin: I would probably stop their questions for a moment or two and ask my own: "Do you guys use a loud generator when you car camp? How can you stand the noise?"

Or: "Why do guys driving 40 foot RVs into campgrounds call what they do "Camping"?

Etc you get the idea.

You should see what they used to call a 'camp' in the Adirondacks!

Anyway, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I think the Hiker Twenty Questions game gets the young 'uns thinking. I also occasionally go hiking with a kid or two from the neighbourhood, and get the same sort of questions then. Getting the questions answered sometimes really gets them thinking, "Wow, maybe I can do this!"

(My daughter sometimes is still willing to go hiking with the old man, if she happens to be in town.)

I'm really getting far off topic here, but I went out for a day trip a month or so ago with a couple of neigbour kids, ages 7 and 5. We came to one spot where the trail went maybe 20-30 feet up a riverbank on a slab of dirty shale. The older kid went first. His feet started to slip and he wailed, "I can't do this!" I told him, "Sure you can. You just don't know how yet! Bend over, spread your fingers, and put your hands flat on the rock. Now get one foot flat on the rock, with your heel WAAAAY down. Now stick your butt way out and get the other foot there with your heel WAAAY down. Walk up on your hands and feet." He got a few feet, started to slip a little, and before he could say anything I shouted, "Remember, heels down, butt out!"

The expression on his face when he realized he was making progress was priceless. He'd just done something he was dead certain was impossible. Little brother scampered right up the rock behind him.

I may have made hikers out of them in that one moment. That's well worth a few dozen rounds of the same old questions. They're not old questions to the people asking them.

[fiddlehead]

You might like the Condor Trail. The first person to ever thru-hike it did so this spring. It's a very difficult trail, much of it is an adventure in route-finding on unmaintained trail. Bring loppers and a saw.

Thanks for that sbhikes.
I will keep it in mind although I don't know when I will get to California again.
It may be a while.
Right now it's jungles and tropics in Thailand.
I'll be in Maine in Oct this year.

[Donde]

When is the last time you saw a young female not looking at her smartphone or saying "ew" about anything and everything that ruffles her comfort zone??.

Yeah that sounds just like a dirty hairy hiker chick.

In my personal experience of a bit over 5k miles on long trails, I do think the d bag factor is on the rise, and I don't think it is generational. It is the increase in rainbow/hippie/I squat on a crappy boat/ whatever other asthetic and philosophy I use as a sham for the fact I am bum and really like to get f'd up. More freebies and increasing dope and party culture are taking over. A lot of that is young folks, but I have met plenty of older burnouts smoking hash (not pot Hash) and telling me how they aren't worried about not having any money cause there is this free hostel, and the "trail provides man" "mother earth always provides man" they never have money for a hostel yet always have dope??

[sbhikes]

Thanks for that sbhikes.
I will keep it in mind although I don't know when I will get to California again.
It may be a while.
Right now it's jungles and tropics in Thailand.
I'll be in Maine in Oct this year.

Maybe when you get around to it there will actually be a trail and your legs won't look like Hamburger like hers did.

[Praha4]

I'm an AT section hiker, and have to say most of the thru-hikers I meet on the trail these days are like the ones you described, both NoBo and SoBo thru hikers. But I would qualify that by saying it does seem that they are more open, talkative and friendly with section hikers the closer they are to the beginning of their hike. The more time they are on the trail, they become more aloof and less talkative with section hikers, more cliquish with their little group of thru hikers, almost like a "tribe".

this is not absolute, I've met some near the finish line that are really cool, and chat up with u... so it's not a rule of thumb

[misterfloyd]

I have section hiked a good portion on the AT and have never had a problem, except for one, with a hiker, section or thru.
I get that thru have thier own little bubble, they probably yo-yo with them for a long period and that builds camaraderie.
Most of the people I have meet have been very friendly.

As opposed to holding court, I will listen to what others will say regarding hiking on the AT, hence me being on this forum as well. Doesn't mean that I will follow it though. Regarding hiking in general, I have found there is two kinds of hiking, AT and everything else.

I'm 49 and never have felt excluded from any group. If I get a vibe, I move along.

Could the problem be more of a generational gap? less in common?

Floyd

[Dogwood]

BrianLe had it right IMO: don't make broad sweeping generalizations of all thru-hikes on limited interactions.

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and.... "
a time to talk, a time to listen, a time to share, a time to bond, a time to step forward into the spotlight, a time to step back, a time to move on, a time to be quiet, a time to allow others their moments,.....

Being sensitive and wise to the appropriate times for all these to occur in their seasons is one of life's great lessons. Thru-hiking can be the vehicle to gain a greater sensitivity to the appropriate times for all these things to occur.

[MuddyWaters]

I usually find thru hikers i meet to be ok, especially sobos nearing the end in the fall.

But i intentionally avoid the heart of the bubble. I also dont talk gear, or offer advice unless asked about specifics. I dont expect to make inroads into cliques. I meet people, then leave them behind for the most psrt.

[sethd513]

My wife figured it out this weekend when we did our small section. All you gotta say is where you are going and most ppl if they want to talk explain their last tenish miles then visa versa. We are 26 and anyone atleast mid to late 30s or older are a charm to deal with and unfortunately we have to end the conversations more likely then not. There's always a snide comment from the younger ones.

[Praha4]

I recall one of my longest AT section hikes (which began as a thru hike), at the end of my 3rd day on the trail, arriving at Mountain Crossings at Neels Gap, GA, late in the day, just 20 minutes before they closed. We had stayed at Gooch Mtn shelter the night before. I think it was around April 23rd. Me and a buddy I met at Springer Mtn decided to stay at the Walasi Yi Hostel, which was pretty much full for the night. We were both given top bunks in the hostel. All the bottom bunks had been taken much earlier in the day by a large group/clique of NoBo thru hikers, who had hiked the grand total of 4-5 miles that day from Woods Hole shelter. This group looked like they were going on the next Everest expedition, at least a Hollywood version. Clothing included the latest and most expensive hats, boots, and jackets. As my buddy and I walked across the parking lot toward the hostel, this elite group was outside profiling, "holding court", (as Tipi so well described) and taking pictures and videos of each other to post online as quickly as possible. Looked like a Hollywood set for "Seven Years in Tibet", one even had the Brad Pitt thing going with the yellow hair. As we humbly approached, my buddy and I could sense we were in the company of greatness, of yet undiscovered trail legends... legends in their own minds.

I learned early on not to make direct eye contact with these AT yet to be "trail legends", it's a sure way to find oneself the target of the "holding court", and gear/shoes/clothing critiques, whether requested or not.

So we bowed to them, and quietly tiptoed into the hostel, where we were directed to the 3rd class "steerage" section, the top bunks. When the "Seven Years in Tibet" cast returned to the bunkrooms, I learned my bunk was on top of the cast leader, the one wearing the most expensive Tilley "Aussie" hat and wearing the Bogart ascot. He lectured me on proper hostel ettiquette, and where I was and was not permitted to place my heh-heh "dime store" hiking gear.

What a day! Only 3rd day on the AT and my buddy and I had already stumbled onto the biggest group of AT blue-flame specials I had met, or ever met since then.

Next morning, as I came back into the bunkroom holding my coffee cup, in a loud voice he warned me "If you spill that coffee on my stuff you'll be sorry you ever stepped foot on this trail". By this time I think I had enough, and responded in a less than appropriate language for the trail. In a moment of weakness brought on by 3 days on the trail, all that "turn the other cheek" stuff I had drilled into me in Catholic grade school was temporarily suspended. Needless to say, we didn't become "trail buddies for life".

I've seen what Tipi described many, many times on the trail. I'm no where close to Tipi's experience level on the trail, but I've seen it myself, and not just from hikers who have been on the trail for a couple months, but hikers who've been on the trail for 3 Days!

cheers!

[Tipi Walter]

Great post Praha4, and I like some of your comments:

"This elite group was outside profiling, holding court . . ."

"We could sense we were in the company of greatness."

"AT blue-flame specials . . ."

THRUHIKING VS JUST BACKPACKING
I've done several trips with "thruhikers" on long trails like the AT and the BMT and have come to these conclusions:

**Backpacking is a strange affliction and thruhiking a long trail is a specialized version of an already narrow field. General backpacking for most is a weekend 3 to 5 day trip vs backpacking a long trail like the AT or the BMT. The opposite of thruhking would be expedition backpacking, hence the need for an expedition pack.


** Thruhikers are on a forced march whereby daily mileage is vital and may be the most important aspect of their outdoor experience. This mindset limits their ability to go off trail on blue blaze adventures and to possibly derail the entire hike to explore other trails.


** Thruhikers generally hate deviating from the prescribed path as then they won't be "official" and can't get the patch and recognition.


** Thruhikers generally cannot carry more than 5 days worth of food because their packs are not designed to handle the weight. This complicates matters and results in the following point---


** Thruhikers obsess about the next town and the next resupply. Some will travel fast thru beautiful country on a big mile day just to reach a town and to get a motel room. Instead of pulling short mile days or zero days on the trail in their tents, they often drool over hot showers, soft beds and restaurant meals. For this reason they pour over their guide books and maps and data books to plan their next town trips and resupply, so when I meet them out in the woods they are either coming from a town or heading out to a town. It's depressing.


** And here's the kicker: Thruhikers use up big chunks of time to do their hikes like 20 or 30 days or more but you will never see a thruhiker using that block of time to carry 30 days worth of food and stay out in a wilderness area with hundreds of miles of trails and loops opportunities. For some reason their brains cannot compute such an "expedition"---an uninterrupted month in the backcountry with no laundry mats and no motel rooms and no restaurants and little to no cell service and no battery recharging---just them and their gear and food for a month.


For some reason such backpacking is not official like a completed thruhike and there's no recognition and no patch and yet they all have the time to do such trips. It must be the social aspect and town support and the shelter system which these backpackers find so attractive. It's definitely not about getting an unbroken amount of time out in the woods.

And so it's no wonder backpacking thruhikers can get weird or aloof or snobbish or whatever. They are on a Forced March. They are either coming from a town or racing to a town. Many of them become Expert Trail Gurus and hold court and Will now take your questions etc.